got the 10lb bogen counter-weight today. Doesn't help at all. The clamp on the boom still needs to be ungodly tight or the AB1600/Kacey dish take a dive even with the weight on it. I'd be better off putting a sandbag on the end of the pole.
It's basic physics learned on the tetter-totter in the playground: when the kid on the other side weighs more he can keep up in the air as long as he wants to
If the pivot point in the center of the boom you'll need counter weight equal to the weight of light and modifer to balance the load horizontally. As you extend the boom and shorten the part sticking out the back you need to increase the weight. But as you tilt the boom up the relative effect of the lever arms change and less counter weight is needed, so the more vertical you can tilt the boom the less counter-weight is needed.
The alternatives to adding nore weight would be to DIY an extension of the boom arm backwards (pipe and gaffer's tape come to mind) or what I mentioned I do, attaching a bungie cord between the end of the boom and the base of the stand using tension to pull the short end of the boom down vs. dead weight and gravity. I also tried filling up the SB with hydrogen ballons but that didn't work out very well; I'm still looking for the pieces of the SB .
Depending on your space other alternatives you might consider are a wall mount boom or an pipe across the ceiling with a super clamp + extension arm to hold the light.
right but who uses a boom and only has 5" of pole sticking out from the side with the light? The 10lb weight is useless.
Whoever advised me that using the counterweight makes it unnecessary to have the the clamping mechanism work better was wrong!
$50 mistake!
Plus, this bogen is junk. The tightening plate and arm are cheap pot metal and it doesn't even get tight enough to grip the bogen arm it was made for. Maybe B&H will take it back. Unfortunately, the shipping is going to make it a loss.
Oops, I see it was you who recommended it. I see yours has padding to keep it tight to the arm. The bogen arm looks to be slightly slimmer in diameter to the boom arm you are using. On my boom the weight just slides off. It's using the same high tech tightening screw as the one in my boom stand.
The ideal situation for any boom is have the correct amount of counter weight to reduce the force on the clamping mechanism to near zero so the light doesn't come crashing to the ground. If that's the case then the style where the boom pivot and stand attachment are separate is easier to use that the type I have and pictured. If you don't have the boom counter balanced then either the friction plate or toothed plate styles are a handful to adjust because you'll need to support the weight of light by hand.
The difference with the Buff boom I pictured is once I do get it tighten down enough for the teeth on the pivot to mesh they hold and transfer the load to the stand, which then falls over forward if I'm not careful.
I usually have at least 1/3 of the total length of my boom hanging out the back and I only use a relatively light AB800 and 16 x 22 SB on the end of it. I don't know how heavy the steel counter weight is but it isn't enough I need to resort use the bungie assist and weight the base of the stand to keep it stable. I'd extend the back end more or angle it more vertically to shift and balance the load but I don't have the headroom or sideways space.
I've got a wescott boom and it looks almost exactly the same as the PCB boom but with a different weight. its 100% difficult to use and adjust and with a Beauty Dish and B400 at 5' out it has a pretty good bow to it and looks extra sketchy... i'm looking into something more stable and longer...
Without a counterweight a boom is a no-go, but even with, it is never that easy without a parallelogram system. It is a boom stand, it is inherently unstable unless you can find some way of retaining the center of balance at the same time as you add weight to one end or extend the boom. And if you can do that, then applying for a patent would be a quick way to a leisurely retirement – defying the laws of physics has always been a good of making a money, it is called SciFi.
jzucker wrote:
got the 10lb bogen counter-weight today. Doesn't help at all. The clamp on the boom still needs to be ungodly tight or the AB1600/Kacey dish take a dive even with the weight on it.
I have a couple of Manfrotto Studio booms, one that was $300 and one that was $500. But they are big.
I have 8 of these regular size booms and they are great! They have been in rain, dirt, you name it, its been on location. Thrown in the back or trucks, carts and wheeled pretty much over any surface.
mrscott wrote:
I have both the A4039CS boom and an A420 with D600 boom. While the A4039 is more portable and has an adjustable leg for outdoor work, one of the main issues I have with it is that the boom tilt and boom lenght adjustment are controlled by the same clamp. The D600 is much easier since the tilt adjustment is completely seperate clamping handle. The rotation of the boom shaft (twist the boom column) and the 1st section length adjustment is also seperate. Finally, the grippy foam on the D600 also makes managing the boom a touch easier.
How does this make a difference in the real world? Combi-booms require you to support the weight of the boom when tilting between say 100 and 240 degrees of the vertial support. For example at 135 degrees you would have to hold up the weight of the boom, light, modifier and counterweight OR else the gear would slide up to the locking knuckle of the boom. Tilt it down and it will slide all the way to the other end where you would mount the counterweight...
On the D600, once you lock in the boom lenght and balance it, its set. Tilt it to 100, 180 or 240 degrees and nothing slips around.
On both the A4039CS and D600, the tilt lock 'spins' in the proper direction - righty tighty - i.e. when weight is applied to the strobe end - making more torque on the gripy parts.
Thats Fresh wrote:
I have a couple of Manfrotto Studio booms, one that was $300 and one that was $500. But they are big.
I have 8 of these regular size booms and they are great! They have been in rain, dirt, you name it, its been on location. Thrown in the back or trucks, carts and wheeled pretty much over any surface.
I got one of these and don't like it at all. The arm is too flimsy to hold even a beauty dish and an AB1600. The whole light stand flexes. You can see it bend and bow. Obviously, this wasn't designed for the torsion that occurs with the boom arm extended. The whole vertical arm starts to bow and this isn't even a heavy setup!
The D600 arm is a much better solution but on this Avenger base, it wouldn't be a good solution IMO.
jzucker wrote:
... I was hoping the EI9101D would work on location. Not sure it's sturdy enough for much beyond holding scrims and refelectors.
I looked at the eBay listing and was not filled with confidence. It claims to offer a "boom", but shows an ordinary grip arm. The purported capacity is 44 lbs, which is not advisable for a C stand (especially with bolt-on wheels). Good light support is forever and already remarkably inexpensive, so any cost-cutting makes me suspicious. Since I know Matthews best, here is a US-made alternative:
Those images should convey the build quality. Stand is all-steel (note leg bracing), capacity is 30 lbs and weight is 14 lbs. Or you could go Avenger with another A5043 and their grip arm. Either way, the price is higher ($270 for Matthews) but you get something that works.
I found out on another thread that the C Stand recommended earlier that I bought off ebay is a cheap, chinese knock-off and doesn't even fit the avenger accessories.
Sorry to hear about that stand. I hope they didnt send you a wrong one! Mine doesnt bow at all when its close to maximum height (Profoto 300R monolight + either the Profoto BD or 3' Octa. I always have a sandbag on the legs but that shouldnt even matter if the risers are bending like that. I have both the $300 and $500 Manfrotto studio booms including Broncolor Hazy boom so you can tell I was picky when I bought these eBay ones. They have worked flawlessly for me and they have been everywhere. But I wont stand behind them if you had a bad experience.
*I also have the similar Impact and Avenger boom combos and I cant tell the difference in quality or performance.
they must have swapped them out for cheaper, chinese made versions. I'm trying to get a refund but i'm not too hopeful. Communication has been poor on this purchase. I just bought another D600 boom arm so for the time being I'll use that on an existing stand in place of this and hopefully I get my money back for this. I guess I'll stick to amazon and b&h from now on!
jzucker wrote:
I found out on another thread that the C Stand recommended earlier that I bought off ebay is a cheap, chinese knock-off and doesn't even fit the avenger accessories.
That's so typical. My company gave all us filed supervisors some flashlights a few years ago, supposedly the kind that you shake to generate electricity that's then stored in a capacitor. They had a clear case so you could see the inner workings. I looked at mine and noticed that the wires from the magnetic coil didn't go all the way to the capacitor; they just dead-ended. So I tookit apart and found that the "capacitor" was fake and there was just a small watch battery that would let the thing light up...for about an hour or so.
More recently, I was given a package of pencils purchased at a "dollar store." The first time I tried to use the eraser on one I found out that it was just hard, colored plastic, not rubber. It wouldn't erase anything.
Then there's the cases of poisonous substances added to food products to raise the protein-test scores, counterfeit computer software, etc., etc., etc.
It's hard to avoid Chinese-made goods these days, but whenever possible I try, even if it means paying a little more. For one thing, part of every purchase of Chinese-made goods goes toward supporting the genocide of Tibetans and Uigars by the Han-dominated occupying government in their native lands.
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It claims to offer a "boom", but shows an ordinary grip arm. The purported capacity is 44 lbs, which is not advisable for a C stand (especially with bolt-on wheels). Good light support is forever and already remarkably inexpensive, so any cost-cutting makes me suspicious. Since I know Matthews best, here is a US-made alternative:
