Funny how you could do a review before all the 'big' publications....
The CamerastoreTV.con came to about the same conclusion.
For Nikon.... i hope they fix the live view.
For canon.... I hope management stops saving face and gets working on there sensor technology.
Maybe the 1DX being held up is fab issues.
arbitrage wrote:
It is so funny to read the differences in this same thread that is also over in the Nikon board. Over there half the posters are heavily criticizing Fred for his "biased" review and getting in a big fuss over the negative put out their against their camera. Also they seem upset that most of the pictures were posted from the Canon and very few from the Nikon. Fred clarified both in the actual review and with a post on that thread that it was only down to him not being able to use the Nikon as effectively. Goes along way to show that outright IQ is great but first of all the camera has to be able to be put to use. Defective LV is not a good thing in a camera otherwise geared towards landscape and studio shooters....Show more →
An observation that LV didn't perform as expected or even that it is "defective" is certainly good feedback and information that needs to be included in a review. Using it as an excuse to not come back with enough images to show in a review is ridiculous. If I were biased and wanted to remain credible I certainly wouldn't come back and state that the 5DIII sensor was equal or better than the D800 because everyone knows that it isn't true. What I would do is find something else that I can use to offset the advantage of the D800's sensor.
Again, preferring the LV implementation of the 5DIII is understandable but writing a review and perpetuating the idea that you just couldn't take pictures with the D800 is laughable. If the LV images were so bad then post those and let us see the proof.
RobCD wrote:
An observation that LV didn't perform as expected or even that it is "defective" is certainly good feedback and information that needs to be included in a review. Again, preferring the LV implementation of the 5DIII is understandable but writing a review and perpetuating the idea that you just couldn't take pictures with the D800 is laughable. If the LV images were so bad then post those and let us see the proof.
Are you a landscape photographer? What is your experience using Liveview? (Under any set of circumstances on any platform.)
How important do you think LV is? Do you own or have you used the D800?
I don't own nor have I shot with the D800 but the poorly implemented Liveview is an absolute show-stopper for many landscape and studio photographers.
From what I've read, the LV issue is the largest single problem with the D800. However, it is a big enough problem that Nikon MUST fix it, IMHO.
And I doubt if it is a simple firmware update.
I don't know that it would or should be a show stopper... I shoot primarily landscape and have never used Live View... I compose and focus the old fashioned way through the view finder... And funny, I am using my D800 almost every single day, I have 5k shots on it, and I find it the most useable camera I have ever used.
JimFox wrote:
I don't know that it would or should be a show stopper... I shoot primarily landscape and have never used Live View... I compose and focus the old fashioned way through the view finder... And funny, I am using my D800 almost every single day, I have 5k shots on it, and I find it the most useable camera I have ever used.
Jim
Thanks for the feedback. I probably should have worded my post to indicate a show-stopper for "some landscape and studio photographers..."
I believe that this would mostly be an issue only when using 100% image crops or making very prints, where ultimate image sharpness is critical throughout all important sections of the entire composition.
But then again, I've never shot with the body, so I'm just postulating here. I'd like to hear from more folks who have shot with the D800.
Read on the web that the revenue from Canon camera division is less than what Sony invested in their CMOS fab upgrade in Kumamoto. Apparently the Canon sensor fab are not doing well and gets substancial "aid" from Canon Imaging.
Bringing the state-of-the-art sensors to market seems to be extremely expensive and maybe Canon has not expected this cost Time for Canon to open up their wallet and start investing in their sensor fabs... or ask Sony nicely if they can get some nice Exmores
Are you a landscape photographer? What is your experience using Liveview? (Under any set of circumstances on any platform.)
How important do you think LV is? Do you own or have you used the D800?
Just curious...
Landscapes make up a big percentage of my photography but not all and I do own the D800. I'm also perfectly aware of the liveview issues that Fred explains in the review. It doesn't change my opinion regarding the review. In fact, I suspect that every other comparison review done before or after will make an attempt to give equal time to each camera. If you prefer the 5DIII and don't want to spend much time with the D800 then no problem ... just don't call it a review of both.
JimFox wrote:
I don't know that it would or should be a show stopper... I shoot primarily landscape and have never used Live View... I compose and focus the old fashioned way through the view finder... And funny, I am using my D800 almost every single day, I have 5k shots on it, and I find it the most useable camera I have ever used.
Jim
To each his own. Since the old fashioned color film only has 8 to 10 stops of dynamic range, then using the exact same reasoning, 11.5 stops of dynamic range in 5D3 should not be a show stopper too, no?
Add me to the list of people that use LV when shooting landscape. I like checking every corner of the image before shooting and prefer using the LCD. I would really like to have a tiltable LCD for those low angle shots.
some of you canon shooters are truely pathetic, you call the D800 a show stopper cause of the live view but marvel the lovely banding in your canon, what is the bigger show stopper for you?
if you can't live around live view then you are nothing more than a picture taker and all the landscape images from years gone by before there even was such a thing as live view must be garbage because they weren't taken by relying on live view.
now back to your regular scheduled praising of your lovely noisy banding 5m3, wonder what little feedings canon will dribble out for they're next upgrade for the canon lemmings
@ brian_sp, to be polite I'll just say you're wrong, no live view...Mr Landscape himself; Ansel Adams and the f64 group used loupes with their 8x10 ground glass cameras to magnify/check the entire image...box camera shooters still do it...might check your history
brian_sp wrote:
some of you canon shooters are truely pathetic, you call the D800 a show stopper cause of the live view but marvel the lovely banding in your canon, what is the bigger show stopper for you?
if you can't live around live view then you are nothing more than a picture taker and all the landscape images from years gone by before there even was such a thing as live view must be garbage because they weren't taken by relying on live view.
now back to your regular scheduled praising of your lovely noisy banding 5m3, wonder what little feedings canon will dribble out for they're next upgrade for the canon lemmings...Show more →
jerrykur wrote:
Add me to the list of people that use LV when shooting landscape. I like checking every corner of the image before shooting and prefer using the LCD. I would really like to have a tiltable LCD for those low angle shots.
brian_sp wrote:
some of you canon shooters are truely pathetic, you call the D800 a show stopper cause of the live view but marvel the lovely banding in your canon, what is the bigger show stopper for you?
if you can't live around live view then you are nothing more than a picture taker and all the landscape images from years gone by before there even was such a thing as live view must be garbage because they weren't taken by relying on live view.
You will note that every single landscape example that Fred posted were shot with a MF lens: Canon TSE or Zeiss ZF.2. Using tilt for landscape shooting really requires a good zoomed image on Live View. If you have not experienced tilt-shift use of tilt on a 35mm camera, I guess you would simply not know how difficult this is to do tilt adjustment with just the viewfinder. I know that I find the WA T-S lenses very stimulating for creative landscapes, and I am pretty sure that Fred feels the same, as shown by his Yosemite shot selection. While MF Zeiss can be done by viewfinder, if you are shooting landscape there is no reason not to generally use a tripod and magnified Live View to nail critical focus. I have 5 MF lenses, so use LV quite a lot.
Lens choice (requirements) can be a priority over the IQ difference of different bodies.
RobCD wrote:
Landscapes make up a big percentage of my photography but not all and I do own the D800. I'm also perfectly aware of the liveview issues that Fred explains in the review. It doesn't change my opinion regarding the review. In fact, I suspect that every other comparison review done before or after will make an attempt to give equal time to each camera. If you prefer the 5DIII and don't want to spend much time with the D800 then no problem ... just don't call it a review of both.
You'll have to ask Fred about that... (The review of both.)
Since I don't own or shoot with either (yet) I have no preference for either at the moment.
I have no doubt that the D800 could be a landscaper's dream come true. Did Canon lose sight of the ball? Or do they simply not have the technology?
But when I do landscapes, I use my TSE24 MkII, and this is what Nikon lacks - a really good one like the Canon - on which the Tilt and Shift can be on either axis. Because it's so sharp at larger apertures, I have used it wide open (f/3.5) and used T/S to achieve DOF.
Of course, Fred "hinted" at this, but so far most are being hypnotized by the MP of the D800 - which is nice in itself, but the body is never by itself - is it?
jerrykur wrote:
Add me to the list of people that use LV when shooting landscape. I like checking every corner of the image before shooting and prefer using the LCD. I would really like to have a tiltable LCD for those low angle shots.
One thing that is very powerful is being able to focus at maximum aperture (thus narrowing DOF and making critical adjustment more apparent) and then stop down with DOF preview and zoom in at 10X to check critical focus anywhere in the frame.
Dan
(Who thinks that the D800 sounds like an absolutely fine camera and would probably buy one if he shot Nikon, but who understands that a) no camera is perfect, b) no camera will ever be perfect, c) the upsides/downsides of the different cameras often roughly cancel one another out, and d) manufacturers often play feature leapfrog, meaning that one companies advantage today may easily disappear (and then reappear) in the not too distant future.)
Time for Canon to open up their wallet and start investing in their sensor fabs... or ask Sony nicely if they can get some nice Exmores