p.6 #1 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
Steve Spencer wrote:
A lot of stuff
A lot of this is wrong. I don't know how badly I want to dig into the 'arguments' presented, but needless to say the D800 outperforms the 5DIII pretty handily. Metamerism, DR, high-ISO, total resolution, tonal range.
I'd argue the AF is pretty comparable between them. I only used the 5DIII briefly but didn't find it to track any better. Then again the D800 has AF information coming in a lot longer than the 5DIII given it's slower framerate, so I would expect it to track better.
p.6 #3 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
carstenw wrote:
Wherever your experience comes from, there must be shots which demonstrate what you are saying. If you are trying to convince someone of something, or make a point, it is customary around here to be willing to back it up. A lot of claims vanish in the face of proof... and some don't. Which is this? That is why I am asking you to back up your claims.
Carsten I wasn't trying to prove my point to anyone. I could care less and it would be a waste of my time specially to someone who states in his avatar he lives in Nikon land. Personaly I would have used something like Cartier Bresson, Avedon, or maybe Salgado, but thats just me.
I use tools like Canon DSLR's, Leica M's, Hassy H4D 40, and a Littman 45. I state my opinion about my use of the gear, thats all.
p.6 #4 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
Do you have any idea how hypocritical you sound? You come to a forum created explicitly for discussions about gear. You talk about gear. You make a strong statement. When someone asks you to substantiate your claim, you retreat to the irrelevant argument that gear doesn't matter. Maybe you misinterpreted his post as a personal attack, but the fact that you are getting so defensive over someone disagreeing with your evaluation of a lens says enough. As far as your opinion goes, this isn't really helpful to anyone unless you can explain to us why you hold that opinion; that is all he was asking for.
p.6 #5 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
Okay, well, it's your choice. I don't understand why you are willing to make strong statements, but not willing to back them up. Makes no sense to me.
I don't know what the list of gear you use has to do with this discussion. Lots of people use similar stuff around here and don't share your opinions.
Anyway, keep in mind that there is no practical difference between someone who makes a claim and is right, and someone who makes a claim and is wrong, if they are unwilling to back it up.
p.6 #7 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
joeisayo wrote:
I need to remember this is a gear forum filled with people obsessed with data in photographs.
Actually this is a gear forum filled with people obsessed with rendering styles in photography and the artistic result.
You made an extremely strong claim, distinctly at odds with the experience of many in here (this forum exists in large part because of the weakness of Canon's wide-angle lenses, the exploration of better alternatives is one of the driving themes of this forum). We've asked you to substantiate this claim and you've refused.
Quite frankly if you've spent time in any of our testing threads you'll notice very quickly that they're heavily biased towards actual, real-world photographic performance. Lenses which perform in the real world are heavily preferred here over lenses which test well and render poorly. Just look at the work of posters like Samuli Vahonen or cogitech, both of whom post "test" shots I'd happily put on my wall.
p.6 #9 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
joeisayo wrote:
The 17 T&S and 24 II T&S (i rent it) are sharper and have significantly less distortion than the zeiss. I do however prefer the color from the Zeiss 21 over the two Canon.
Carsten, in my opinion his decscription is not far off from my experience with the same three lenses.
The Canon 24 II TSE was (slightly) sharper than the Zeiss 21, but I also prefered the colors of the Zeiss. My 17 TSE was at leat wide open less sharp in the corners than the 21 and 24, but stopped down or in the center there was no (significant) difference.
I did a comparison between the 24 TSE and the 21 ZE in New Zealand and you can find it somewhere here on FM (i.e. a link is in the 25ZE thread).
From what I've read the Nikon wideangle lenses are not as good as the two Canon TSEs and the Zeiss. But I've no personal experience with newer Nikon lenses.
Boris
Apr 23, 2012 at 12:17 AM
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p.6 #10 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
Dear warriors,
Could you please upload properly exposed raw-files at ISO 400 and 1600 captured with D800 and 5D3. The same scene is very appreciated yet non-parrallel shots are welcome as well.
Apr 23, 2012 at 12:36 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #11 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
:
Sp12 wrote:
A lot of this is wrong. I don't know how badly I want to dig into the 'arguments' presented, but needless to say the D800 outperforms the 5DIII pretty handily. Metamerism, DR, high-ISO, total resolution, tonal range.
I'd argue the AF is pretty comparable between them. I only used the 5DIII briefly but didn't find it to track any better. Then again the D800 has AF information coming in a lot longer than the 5DIII given it's slower framerate, so I would expect it to track better.
In my posts I was just trying to summarize the data (as opposed to the scores) that DXO reported. If I made mistakes in my reporting please correct them. The reason I posted is that I feel DXO scores are misleading and focussing on their data is much more useful. So my intent was to shift the focus to the data. We should all be able to agree on what the data actually were. So, if I mischaracterized the data please correct that. I did have some opinions along the way, and I tried to carefully note them as opinions. You and everyone else should feel totally free to disagree with those opinions. Note as one of my opinions I did say that I thought the D800 does outperform the 5D MKIII, so I don't disagree with you on that. I would also agree that if you define metamerism by using DXO Color Sensistivity scores then yes the D800 outperforms the 5D MKIII. I also agree that if you define Dynamic Range by using DXO's scores on Dynamic Range then again the D800 outperforms the 5D MKIII at ISOs below 800. If you define high ISO performance by DXOs Signal to Noise ratio scores, however, the D800 does not outperform the 5D MKIII (they have nearly identical performance). Further if you define tonal range using the DXO's scores on Tonal Range, then again the D800 does not outperform the 5D MKIII (they again have very similar performance), and I don't know how you would define total resolution, but I am sure that the just about any way you would define it the significantly higher megapixel D800 would have higher total resolution than the 5D MKIII. Hopefully we can agree on all of the above as it is just a matter of accurately reporting the DXO tests.
p.6 #13 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
fracas wrote:
We, canon users, have to admit that D800 outperforms 5D3 for S/N and DR... but Nikon user have to admit that AF and LV are better with 5D3
p.6 #14 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
At the moment, I'm neither a Canon nor Nikon user as my current lenses will work on either platform. From what I have seen, the Canon 5D3 has at least equal if not even better AF (sort of hard to imagine saying that in connection with the 5D name given the horrible AF of the past) and the body overall looks very solid (again, a huge improvement). I was really looking forward to using Live View on the D800 coming from the Sony A900 without LV but Nikon's implementation and LV image quality at 100% view looks like a major headache to use in the field. Hard to believe they screwed that up so badly. Ultimately for my uses, image quality at lower ISO reigns and here the Sony sensor in the D800 is unbeatable. It's really too bad Canon was not more competitive in this regard because we are basically left with the choice of usability vs image quality. Usability with the Nikon is not going to prevent getting the shot but, at least when using Live View, it's going to make it more of a pain in the ass!
p.6 #15 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
Tariq Gibran wrote:
....... From what I have seen, the Canon 5D3 has at least equal if not even better AF (sort of hard to imagine saying that in connection with the 5D name given the horrible AF of the past) and the body overall looks very solid (again, a huge improvement). I was really looking forward to using Live View on the D800 coming from the Sony A900 without LV but Nikon's implementation and LV image quality at 100% view looks like a major headache to use in the field. Hard to believe they screwed that up so badly. Ultimately for my uses, image quality at lower ISO reigns and here the Sony sensor in the D800 is unbeatable. It's really too bad Canon was not more competitive in this regard because we are basically left with the choice of usability vs image quality. Usability with the Nikon is not going to prevent getting the shot but, at least when using Live View, it's going to make it more of a pain in the ass! ...Show more →
+1
fracas wrote:
We, canon users, have to admit that D800 outperforms 5D3 for S/N and DR... but Nikon user have to admit that AF and LV are better with 5D3
To me, it is not a contest but the summary in the quote above does appear to be correct [for me at least!].
The new Sony/Nikon sensors are clearly very good at low ISO DR. Kudos to those companies for achieving this.
Based on LC reports + Ming Thien reports + online user reports, it does appear that D800 AF is not as rock solid as it was **expected** to be.
Regarding LV, I was puzzled when I tried out LV on a friend’s D800. LV was not easy to get accurate focus [either for me or for him; plus this may be a subjective thing] since the LCD feed/display was smeary.
I hope it is not an interpolated feed but rather a true pixel view or at least a 5x or 10x zoomed-in view of the actual pixels. Anybody has more info on this?
This is something useful for Landscape and Studio shooters to make full use of the 36MP sensor’s resolution, especially when combined with great MF glass.
The link below has some comparison shots between a 5d2 and a D800 [shot with 50MP]. Interesting reading. Touches upon LV also [albeit briefly and in his website] https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1105924
begin: disclaimer
Zeiss lover but agnostic towards CaNikon. Like my 5d2 + ZE combo [despite the well-known limitations!] I also like the D700 and D800 a lot !
end: disclaimer
p.6 #16 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
I am currently renting the D800 and a ZF.2 21/2.8 from Lensrentals and I got to shoot some landscape shots in a redwood forest on Sat. I took some comparison shots against my 1ds3 and ZE 21/2.8.
I have always shot Canon and have never shot a Nikon camera. It took me a little while of RTFM and figuring out how to configure the D800 to shoot a manual focus ZF.2 lens but got that all figured out Friday night after receiving it at the end of the day.
The biggest things which stand out to me are the DR, the resolution of course, and the Nikon implementation of LiveView. The DR was amazing to me as it allowed me to photograph a scene looking into the sun filtering through the tall redwoods. Usually, when I preserve the highlights from clipping the darker areas get too dark with my 1ds3 and I usually have to bracket and blend in post. The D800 had no problem recording this scene. I will post these shots later when I get time to process the shots in LR.
The Liveview is the only negative thing and it really isn't that bad but just not as good as the Canon as it is interpreting every other line and has a slower response. You need to turn the focus ring a little slower as the feedback on the screen is slightly slower. Of course the pictures look much better on the Nikon screen compared to my old 1ds3 which has a very old, smaller screen. The improvements I wanted in a upgrade over my 1ds3 are more resolution, better screen, and more DR. The D800 offers me that and the 5d3 does not, simple as that. Sure, the D800 is a little slower at 4fps but I don't need the speed for landscape and a lot of my other shooting. I still have a 7D if I need to cover sports or need very fast AF.
Anyway, these are just my early impressions of using the D800 and hope to post some comparison shots soon. I have to upgrade first to LR4. The D800 is a Sony sensor and right now Sony is clearly in the lead for top performing sensors and we will see if Canon can catch up. I will probably get the D800E and keep my Canon stuff too and become a CaNikon dual platform user.
p.6 #18 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
Tariq Gibran wrote:
At the moment, I'm neither a Canon nor Nikon user as my current lenses will work on either platform. From what I have seen, the Canon 5D3 has at least equal if not even better AF (sort of hard to imagine saying that in connection with the 5D name given the horrible AF of the past) and the body overall looks very solid (again, a huge improvement). I was really looking forward to using Live View on the D800 coming from the Sony A900 without LV but Nikon's implementation and LV image quality at 100% view looks like a major headache to use in the field. Hard to believe they screwed that up so badly. Ultimately for my uses, image quality at lower ISO reigns and here the Sony sensor in the D800 is unbeatable. It's really too bad Canon was not more competitive in this regard because we are basically left with the choice of usability vs image quality. Usability with the Nikon is not going to prevent getting the shot but, at least when using Live View, it's going to make it more of a pain in the ass! ...Show more →
The D800 LV is definitely fuzzier and slower real time feedback but still usable I found and you are rewarded with better IQ with the Sony 36MP sensor with higher DR.
Apr 23, 2012 at 01:57 PM
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p.6 #19 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
wayne seltzer, I'm looking forward to your test shots and 'm a little bit impatient of that
Moreover I processed some dpreview raw test files and did my best in pp I hope to reveal 5D3 and D800 differences. There's nothing spectacular yet quite educational. And I'm going to post them tommorow with my commets added.
p.6 #20 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
wayne seltzer wrote:
I am currently renting the D800 and a ZF.2 21/2.8 from Lensrentals and I got to shoot some landscape shots in a redwood forest on Sat. I took some comparison shots against my 1ds3 and ZE 21/2.8.
Wayne, can't wait to see your shots! Are you in Redwood NP? I love this place...
