p.7 #2 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
fracas wrote:
We, canon users, have to admit that D800 outperforms 5D3 for S/N and DR... but Nikon user have to admit that AF and LV are better with 5D3
... depends... The AF system in the D800 is better than the one in the D3/D3s/D3x, which is excellent and i would imagine at least as good as the 5DIII (pro level and all that). If you watch some of the videos where the D800 is demonstrated, you can see that it focuses really amazingly fast until the normal point of focus, and then it fine-tunes for another 1/3s or something. It seems to be necessary for it to be much more careful with the focus, given the much higher resolution...
So, yeah, the 5DIII may focus faster than the D800, but I don't think it is because it has a better focusing system, but rather because it has a much easier job at it.
The proof will come when we can compare 1D-X and D4.
What is it about the 5DIII LV which is better? The line-skip thing?
p.7 #3 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
snowboarder wrote:
Wayne, can't wait to see your shots! Are you in Redwood NP? I love this place...
No, I hope to go up there in May when the Rhodiedendron's (sp?)are blooming. Can't wait to go up there again as I did a lot of scouting for my next trip there.
This was local Butano state park North of Santa Cruz in the Santa Cruz mtns. A nice place to escape the heat on Sat when it was 91 degrees in Bay Area. I will try to get some time tonight to process and post some shots. I shot RAW and JPEG on the D800 so I can at least post the JPEGs.
@Carsten, the D800 LV I think is using the video mode and interpolating lines. It is fuzzy as if you are looking through a home security camera video camera with slight delay. When you are twisting the focus ring back and forward to determine the sharpest focus you need to allow a slight time between adjusting it to when you see it. I remember reading that the LV on some Nikon' cameras do LV in a different and much better way.
p.7 #4 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
I have to admit that I am a bit disappointed at the line skipping thing in the LV. It sounds like they have otherwise paid some attention to improving LV.
IMO, the D800 has two things which I would like to see changed:
- Line skipping in LV. Please give us a full res option, even if it lags slightly.
- No RAW downressing options, a-la 5DIII. I would like to have 36MP, 24MP, 18MP, and 12MP options, all FF.
And a question for the experts: does the MC-36 release require the battery pack with the D800? I have seen somewhere that the battery pack (grip?) is required for use with the D700, which is slightly disappointing, since I wasn't planning on buying the grip. I just received my MC-36 today, but didn't know about this when I ordered it.
p.7 #6 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
I should also mention that I was using the D800 in Aperture mode and so the LV is using the stopped down aperture and not the widest aperture, so in the dark forest, the ~1s f8 exposure was causing the camera to turn up the gain a lot to get a visible image on the screen. I think if I switch out of aperture mode to some other mode, there is a way to get the LV to use the widest aperture for LV focusing and then just switch back into to aperture mode to take the shot. This was mentioned in some D800 LV youtube videos. Anybody, remember what mode to switch into? Probably, some Auto/program mode?
p.7 #7 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
Why dont the people opposing joeisayo's findings with their equally strong counter claims do the test images or prove their point to the best of their abilities? I must be missing something here.
Tariq, have to ask you, what alt lenses are you talking about? Catering for altlenses in general - if anything - I thought was the Canon ever lasting vorsprung durch historical convenience (and coincidence). Personally I have now a mix of CY, ZE and ZF lenses. I think I prefer the CY's and most of them conveniently mounts on the 5D2 (and 5D3 I assume).
p.7 #8 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
Yakim Peled wrote:
I think spanking is great both in the personal level as well as the corporate level.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
this +1; I used a d800 this weekend (friend's) side by side with mine and yes the live view is a bit slow compared to the canon 5dII. top notch nikon ergonomics as always. actually what blew me away was the fact that on older Ai-S manual glass if you stopped down, the camera recognized that you had stopped down....and displayed it on the finder. try doing that on our stinky adapted lens. plus punching in the MM/max aperture seemed nice too. I'm guessing this is only for nikon Ai-S manual glass right? Lets say a leitaxed leica lens on a d700/d800 wouldn't know when the aperture changed would it? (its always the small things)
p.7 #9 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
wayne seltzer wrote:
Low ISO IQ has not improved much from my 1ds3 and that is the main problem for me.
In five years they have not provided an upgrade camera for landscape and studio photographers.
while I'm not exclusively a landscape or studio guy by any stretch, I feel the same way.. a bit disappointed there hasn't been more progress made by Canon with regards to dynamic range at ISO 100-400.
that said, I'd also throw out one thing - I've never really felt limited by my camera, so maybe there isn't THAT much more that needs to be improved, unless you're shooting for billboards and need medium format, good lighting/mods + the 1Ds3 is pretty killer as is. LOVE the skintones out of camera on this body set on Faithful..
p.7 #10 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
wfrank wrote:
Tariq, have to ask you, what alt lenses are you talking about? Catering for altlenses in general - if anything - I thought was the Canon ever lasting vorsprung durch historical convenience (and coincidence). Personally I have now a mix of CY, ZE and ZF lenses. I think I prefer the CY's and most of them conveniently mounts on the 5D2 (and 5D3 I assume).
Canon does have the most easily adaptable SLR mount but most of the lenses I use or would want to use are easily adaptable via a mount change to Nikon as well. My most used lens for instance is the Leica R 50 Summicron and the mount is easily changed to Nikon F mount, as are many other Leica R's such as the Macro's. Same with many of the CY's. So, in practice, the alt lenses I would most want to use can be used with either Canon, Nikon or Sony.
p.7 #11 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
crazeazn wrote:
this +1; I used a d800 this weekend (friend's) side by side with mine and yes the live view is a bit slow compared to the canon 5dII. top notch nikon ergonomics as always. actually what blew me away was the fact that on older Ai-S manual glass if you stopped down, the camera recognized that you had stopped down....and displayed it on the finder. try doing that on our stinky adapted lens. plus punching in the MM/max aperture seemed nice too. I'm guessing this is only for nikon Ai-S manual glass right? Lets say a leitaxed leica lens on a d700/d800 wouldn't know when the aperture changed would it? (its always the small things)...Show more →
Indeed this is only for AI lenses, the AI tab on the mount reads the aperture difference from wide open and displays either the Delta, or if you've entered the lens in your Non-CPU lens data, then the shooting aperture.
It works for any lens capable of engaging the AI tab. So AI, AI-converted and AI-S lenses (AI-P, AF and AF-D lenses with a lens CPU don't need the non-cpu lens data setting). Leitaxed lenses will not do this but can still take advantage of non-CPU lens data to set EXIF.
p.7 #12 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
Bobu wrote:
Carsten, in my opinion his decscription is not far off from my experience with the same three lenses.
Examples?
I am having a hard time thinking of how a lens, any lens, could even be sharper than the ZF21. I mean, even at 100%, everything is sharp, even wide open. How could something be better? I would like to see it.
p.7 #13 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
wfrank wrote:
Why dont the people opposing joeisayo's findings with their equally strong counter claims do the test images or prove their point to the best of their abilities? I must be missing something here.
I don't own any Canon stuff any more. I did own Canon for a while, but found it pretty disappointing and sold after less than a year of ownership. This was a 5D. I have occasional access to a 5DII and find it similarly disappointing.
p.7 #14 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
carstenw wrote:
Examples?
I am having a hard time thinking of how a lens, any lens, could even be sharper than the ZF21. I mean, even at 100%, everything is sharp, even wide open. How could something be better? I would like to see it.
Don't forget about body/sensor difference
TS-E 24 II is sharper and have bit higher contrast (sometimes good, sometimes bad) on 5D II compared to ZE 21/8. As well ZE 25/2 is sharper in centre than ZE 21/2.8
I try ZF.2 35/1.4 on D700 body (12 MP) and was unimpressed compared to ZE 35/1.4 on 5D II (21MP).
So you be very happy with Zeiss on D800 This glass is long term investment.
p.7 #16 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
carstenw wrote:
Hmm, I hope my ZF21 doesn't show weaknesses on my D800, when it gets here...
Carsten, do make it a point to test it well.
A buddy of mine and a fellow FMer got a ZF.2 21mm for his new D800 and sent it back. He did a lot of tests under a variety of different conditions [indoors, outdoors, at different distances and different apertures, tripod + LV/MUP/timer] but the performance of the combo was very disappointing - there was no **bite** in the plane of focus that I am used to seeing from the 21mm.
Even max levels of sharpening in LR4.1 could not bring the files to pop in the plane of focus [at f/4.0, f/5.6, f/7.1]. At this time, we do not know if it was a bad lens or if it is indicative of something else.
[Inclined to believe it is the former].
Curious to see how this turns out [on paper; the D800 + 21 appears to be a marriage made in heaven for landscapers].
And yeah, there are lenses that measure sharper than the 21mm but I personally prefer the colors and micro-contrast from the Zeiss.
p.7 #17 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
JaanOs wrote:
Don't forget about body/sensor difference
TS-E 24 II is sharper and have bit higher contrast (sometimes good, sometimes bad) on 5D II compared to ZE 21/8. As well ZE 25/2 is sharper in centre than ZE 21/2.8
..........
+1
p.7 #18 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
Interesting. Maybe it really is due to the 12MP of the D3, probably close to a sweet spot. That would be disappointing but not a deal-breaker. I am sure stopping it down a little will get the sharpness back (MTFs would support that), which will be necessary anyway with that kind of resolution, to maintain the same feeling of DoF.
Funny, I recall recently that I was comparing the ZF21 shots to some of my other Zeiss lenses, and found that I had to sharpen differently (more), to get the same end result. The shots don't look unsharp in any way, but compared to the other lenses, they just aren't quite there. I suppose this lens is just an old design in need of an update.
I find 21 very wide in any case, so maybe I will take this opportunity to pick up a 25/2, which I would probably use more anyway.
p.7 #19 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
Tariq Gibran wrote:
The crazy thing is that I just checked what the NEX-7 could do with shadow recovery - shown below. Frankly, I was not expecting much at all but damn if it might be even better with the shadows than the Canon 5D MIII! I believe this example is even more extreme than what FM showed in his example.
It "looks" more extreme because your original frame shows the Blacks slider set to "5". Set this to "0" and the Fill Light set to "0" and show us the screen capture of that alongside the other shot with Fill Light set to "80".
p.7 #20 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
AngryCorgi wrote:
It "looks" more extreme because your original frame shows the Blacks slider set to "5". Set this to "0" and the Fill Light set to "0" and show us the screen capture of that alongside the other shot with Fill Light set to "80".
Nope. It is extreme and a setting of "5" for the black point is the default setting for the NEX-7 by the way (and is not that much). Here is what changing the default of the black point to 0 gains you http://www.gibranstudio.com/o.jpg
