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Archive 20125Dmk2 vs D800 shootout with Zeiss Makro-Planar
p.3 #15Dmk2 vs D800 shootout with Zeiss Makro-Planar
The more I look into D800 images, the more I'm pleased by the look of details. Not details per-se but the rendering of details.
My 5Dmk2 in all honesty is still capable to render 90% if not more than D800 details. But the D800 has a smooth rendering, it seems... don't know how to say it... "detailed but not sharpened".
If the 5D2 was a Micro 4/3 and the D800 a full frame, I'd say "yes, you clearly see the difference between a small sensor and a big one, despite Mp".
And now that it seems that th D800E could pull out even more detail... and that DR is definitely a step-up, well... I must confess I'd LOVE to find a way to mount my 70-300L and those great TS-E lenses on that damned Nikon!!!
Gear doesn't matter...
gear doesn't matter... gear doesn't matter... gear doesn't matter...
My 5Dmk2 in all honesty is still capable to render 90% if not more than D800 details. But the D800 has a smooth rendering, it seems... don't know how to say it... "detailed but not sharpened".
If the 5D2 was a Micro 4/3 and the D800 a full frame, I'd say "yes, you clearly see the difference between a small sensor and a big one, despite Mp".
And now that it seems that th D800E could pull out even more detail... and that DR is definitely a step-up, well... I must confess I'd LOVE to find a way to mount my 70-300L and those great TS-E lenses on that damned Nikon!!!
Gear doesn't matter...
gear doesn't matter... gear doesn't matter... gear doesn't matter... Apr 19, 2012 at 09:04 AM
p.3 #25Dmk2 vs D800 shootout with Zeiss Makro-Planar
Marco wrote:
Gear doesn't matter... gear doesn't matter... gear doesn't matter... gear doesn't matter...
Marco, you are in denial
. Just the mere fact that you compared the two tells a different story
. Thank you for the comparison nonetheless.
Saluti,
Joshua
Gear doesn't matter...
gear doesn't matter... gear doesn't matter... gear doesn't matter... Marco, you are in denial
. Just the mere fact that you compared the two tells a different story. Thank you for the comparison nonetheless. Saluti,
Joshua
Apr 19, 2012 at 09:07 AM
p.3 #35Dmk2 vs D800 shootout with Zeiss Makro-Planar
AGeoJO wrote:
Marco, you are in denial .
Yep Joshua
BIG denial... I know that gear matters almost zero compared to the few inches behind our eyes, but when my brain is bored gear becomes more and more attractive
Marco, you are in denial
. Yep Joshua
BIG denial... I know that gear matters almost zero compared to the few inches behind our eyes, but when my brain is bored gear becomes more and more attractive
Apr 19, 2012 at 09:13 AM
p.3 #45Dmk2 vs D800 shootout with Zeiss Makro-Planar
Marco wrote:
I know that gear matters almost zero compared to the few inches behind our eyes, but when my brain is bored gear becomes more and more attractive
You are absolutely correct! Lately I have been concentrating more on the few inches behind the eyes and on the post processing skill. Whatever minor difference is there in gear, if any, gives me the motivation to focus more on photography, to do even better. It provides me with a challenge, so to speak. To be honest, I have been enjoying photography more so than before even. That's my philosophy and I am sticking to it!
I know that gear matters almost zero compared to the few inches behind our eyes, but when my brain is bored gear becomes more and more attractive
You are absolutely correct! Lately I have been concentrating more on the few inches behind the eyes and on the post processing skill. Whatever minor difference is there in gear, if any, gives me the motivation to focus more on photography, to do even better. It provides me with a challenge, so to speak. To be honest, I have been enjoying photography more so than before even. That's my philosophy and I am sticking to it
!Apr 19, 2012 at 09:23 AM
p.3 #55Dmk2 vs D800 shootout with Zeiss Makro-Planar
morganb4 wrote:
By the same token, if you cannot take amazing photos without D800, you cannot take them with D800...If guns dont kill people, people kill people, then toasters dont toast toast, toast toasts toast.
No...toasters don't toast toast, people toast toast with toasters. And cameras don't take pictures, people take pictures with cameras.
The universal concept is...Man's mind is the source of the will, to use any tool for good or ill. Without will, the tool is benign and completely innocent. Is it appropriate to put toasters or cameras or guns on trial? Can you picture putting a knife or a gun or a camera in the witness stand and having it answer questions and defend itself against the accusations of a lawyer or other party? Does that sound absurd to you? It should, because the object has no WILL of its own, and will is the source of intent and intent the reason why murder and terrorism exist. Man is the one with the will. Never blame a tool for what man does with it. Some tools are more dangerous than others, but many tools can be misused. Money and religion are still among the most dangerous tools wielded by any man.
If we were to halt advancement in technology for fear that man would abuse everything that comes out, what good would that be? And at the same time, how are we supposed to advance technologically as long as man is bent on misusing tools and being so arrogant? Every tool can be misused. Some are easier to misuse in grave ways than others. It's scary to think that man is still so immature mentally as a race that it does what it does to itself and others all the time. Any advancements are subject to increasing risks of willful self-destruction. The thing that will be required to prevent us from completely destroying ourselves is the same thing that is required to prevent us from intentionally harming others with ANY tool.
Mathematicians might appreciate the formula: Will + Tool = Result, where Will is whatever is the intent or desire of man and the effort to carry it out, and Tool is whatever man calls upon to satiate the intent or desire.
Edited on Apr 19, 2012 at 09:32 AM · View previous versions
KaaX wrote
chez wrote
I'm just saying,if you cannot take amazing photos with Nikon glass, you cannot take amazing photos with Canon glass.No...toasters don't toast toast, people toast toast with toasters. And cameras don't take pictures, people take pictures with cameras.
The universal concept is...Man's mind is the source of the will, to use any tool for good or ill. Without will, the tool is benign and completely innocent. Is it appropriate to put toasters or cameras or guns on trial? Can you picture putting a knife or a gun or a camera in the witness stand and having it answer questions and defend itself against the accusations of a lawyer or other party? Does that sound absurd to you? It should, because the object has no WILL of its own, and will is the source of intent and intent the reason why murder and terrorism exist. Man is the one with the will. Never blame a tool for what man does with it. Some tools are more dangerous than others, but many tools can be misused. Money and religion are still among the most dangerous tools wielded by any man.
If we were to halt advancement in technology for fear that man would abuse everything that comes out, what good would that be? And at the same time, how are we supposed to advance technologically as long as man is bent on misusing tools and being so arrogant? Every tool can be misused. Some are easier to misuse in grave ways than others. It's scary to think that man is still so immature mentally as a race that it does what it does to itself and others all the time. Any advancements are subject to increasing risks of willful self-destruction. The thing that will be required to prevent us from completely destroying ourselves is the same thing that is required to prevent us from intentionally harming others with ANY tool.
Mathematicians might appreciate the formula: Will + Tool = Result, where Will is whatever is the intent or desire of man and the effort to carry it out, and Tool is whatever man calls upon to satiate the intent or desire.
Edited on Apr 19, 2012 at 09:32 AM · View previous versions
Apr 19, 2012 at 09:23 AM
p.3 #75Dmk2 vs D800 shootout with Zeiss Makro-Planar
form wrote:
The universal concept is...Man's mind is the source of the will, to use any tool for good or ill. Without will, the tool is benign and completely innocent.
We're getting far off-topic, but software can exhibit emergent behavior, that is, behavior that is not programmed, intended, or anticipated by the software's (human) creators. Whose tool it is?
form wrote:
Is it appropriate to put toasters or cameras or guns on trial? Can you picture putting a knife or a gun or a camera in the witness stand and having it answer questions and defend itself against the accusations of a lawyer or other party? Does that sound absurd to you?
Clearly, you haven't looked at the US justice system recently. Yes, you can accuse inanimate objects of "crimes" -- it's called civil forfeiture. Yep, that's sanctioned by the Supreme Court. To quote Wikipedia:
In civil forfeiture cases, the US Government sues the item of property, not the person; the owner is effectively a third party claimant. Once the government establishes probable cause that the property is subject to forfeiture, the owner must prove on a "preponderance of the evidence" that it is not. The owner need not be judged guilty of any crime.
The universal concept is...Man's mind is the source of the will, to use any tool for good or ill. Without will, the tool is benign and completely innocent.
We're getting far off-topic, but software can exhibit emergent behavior, that is, behavior that is not programmed, intended, or anticipated by the software's (human) creators. Whose tool it is?
form wrote:
Is it appropriate to put toasters or cameras or guns on trial? Can you picture putting a knife or a gun or a camera in the witness stand and having it answer questions and defend itself against the accusations of a lawyer or other party? Does that sound absurd to you?
Clearly, you haven't looked at the US justice system recently. Yes, you can accuse inanimate objects of "crimes" -- it's called civil forfeiture. Yep, that's sanctioned by the Supreme Court. To quote Wikipedia:
In civil forfeiture cases, the US Government sues the item of property, not the person; the owner is effectively a third party claimant. Once the government establishes probable cause that the property is subject to forfeiture, the owner must prove on a "preponderance of the evidence" that it is not. The owner need not be judged guilty of any crime.
Apr 19, 2012 at 09:34 AM
p.3 #85Dmk2 vs D800 shootout with Zeiss Makro-Planar
form wrote:
By the same token, if you cannot take amazing photos without D800, you cannot take them with D800...If guns dont kill people, people kill people, then toasters dont toast toast, toast toasts toast.No...toasters don't toast toast, people toast toast with toasters. And cameras don't take pictures, people take pictures with cameras.
The universal concept is...Man's mind is the source of the will, to use any tool for good or ill. Without will, the tool is benign and completely innocent. Is it appropriate to put toasters or cameras or guns on trial? Can you picture putting a knife or a gun or a camera in the witness stand and having it answer questions and defend itself against the accusations of a lawyer or other party? Does that sound absurd to you? It should,...Show more →
er....I was just messing around.........
morganb4 wrote
KaaX wrote
chez wrote
I'm just saying,if you cannot take amazing photos with Nikon glass, you cannot take amazing photos with Canon glass.The universal concept is...Man's mind is the source of the will, to use any tool for good or ill. Without will, the tool is benign and completely innocent. Is it appropriate to put toasters or cameras or guns on trial? Can you picture putting a knife or a gun or a camera in the witness stand and having it answer questions and defend itself against the accusations of a lawyer or other party? Does that sound absurd to you? It should,...Show more →
er....I was just messing around.........
Apr 19, 2012 at 09:38 AM
p.3 #95Dmk2 vs D800 shootout with Zeiss Makro-Planar
civil forfeiture? Astonishing. This is a law concept that shouldn't even exist until we have sentient robots.
Apr 19, 2012 at 09:55 AM
p.3 #105Dmk2 vs D800 shootout with Zeiss Makro-Planar
form wrote:
civil forfeiture? Astonishing. This is a law concept that shouldn't even exist until we have sentient robots.
Oh, it's a very ancient concept. It's usually expressed as "Give me your money unless you can prove to me that I shouldn't take it." When a government says that, it's legal :-D
A common object of civil forfeiture is a bunch of cash that police feels you shouldn't have.
civil forfeiture? Astonishing. This is a law concept that shouldn't even exist until we have sentient robots.
Oh, it's a very ancient concept. It's usually expressed as "Give me your money unless you can prove to me that I shouldn't take it." When a government says that, it's legal :-D
A common object of civil forfeiture is a bunch of cash that police feels you shouldn't have.
Apr 19, 2012 at 09:58 AM
p.3 #115Dmk2 vs D800 shootout with Zeiss Makro-Planar
Raw files now available for download (1.6 Gb zip).
Click HERE
You have only 14 days, then you can go back to Joshua (wise) philosophy
Click HERE
You have only 14 days, then you can go back to Joshua (wise) philosophy
Apr 19, 2012 at 02:05 PM
p.3 #125Dmk2 vs D800 shootout with Zeiss Makro-Planar
Sorry, there's a problem with the link that yousendit sent me... even if I directly click on it on my email (I had to send the uploaded file to someone and I sent it to me, on my other email address) I get an error message... 
Now I'm at home and I uploaded the big file at office, but since it was VERY time consuming (over 4 hours) I had to leave my laptop at office so I don't know ho to check things.
Tomorrow I'll try again, apologies
Now I'm at home and I uploaded the big file at office, but since it was VERY time consuming (over 4 hours) I had to leave my laptop at office so I don't know ho to check things.
Tomorrow I'll try again, apologies
Apr 19, 2012 at 02:14 PM
p.3 #135Dmk2 vs D800 shootout with Zeiss Makro-Planar
Oops, apparently yousendit site is down for maintenance, so please check again later at the link I provided.
Btw, probably next week I can have a D800E for testing!!! Yeah
Btw, probably next week I can have a D800E for testing!!! Yeah
Apr 19, 2012 at 02:17 PM
p.3 #145Dmk2 vs D800 shootout with Zeiss Makro-Planar
thanks for making the files available! the 4 year old 5D2 is holding up very well, switching to Nikon is cancelled. this test shows that lenses are more important than cameras IMHO.
Apr 19, 2012 at 11:36 PM
p.3 #155Dmk2 vs D800 shootout with Zeiss Makro-Planar
arbitrage wrote:
This is exactly why I ended up staying in the Canon camp this time around.
Dual system.
This is exactly why I ended up staying in the Canon camp this time around.
Dual system.
Apr 20, 2012 at 01:42 AM
p.3 #175Dmk2 vs D800 shootout with Zeiss Makro-Planar
Frankly there's not a Nikon single lens I'd prefer to shoot with.
I had the 14-24 which was amazing, practically on par with the ZF 21 DIstagon. But it was huge and didn't take filters.
Besides, I rarely shoot below 24mm and if I have to, mainly for some architectural work, I'd prefer to get the 17 f/4L TS-E...
I'm sure the new 24-70/2.8L II will be better than the (long, heavy and not so great at wider settings) 24-70/2.8 AFS, I prefer the rendition of the 70-200/2.8L IS II to that of the 70-200/2.8 VR II, but both are a bit too heavy in my book for the (limited) focal length. Despite a rather bad ergonomics I'm always amazed at the results from my 70-300L IS, which is WAY better than the 70-300 VR (used one for a while).
I just got a used inexpensive (less than 400 $) EF 100 f/2, great optics, small and light.
Nikon 105 DC is very nice and probably a bit better optically but it is bigger, heavier and it doesn't focus as fast and/or precisely. I had the 135 DC and it was optically great but I missed many shots because of imprecise focussing. No match for the 135/2L.
Nikon doesn't have any 70-200 f/4 version, their 105 VR Micro is stupidly large, their 85 PC-Micro is clumsy compared to the slick 90 TSE, which is also better optically at wider apertures, with much better bokeh also.
The big guns are great in both brands, but no VR on 300/4, no 400/5.6, an old 80-400 VR don't help choosing Nikon for any less than wealthy wildlife shooter.
The new Canon superteles are also substantially lighter, although *ouch* uber-expensive...
That is not to say that Nikon glass is bad, FAR from it. The differences are mostly minor, but if that D800 sensor was in a Canon DSLR I'd never ever remotely think to go Nikon. Canon glass offering (and the ability to shoot almost any alternative lense on the planet) is hard to beat.
I had the 14-24 which was amazing, practically on par with the ZF 21 DIstagon. But it was huge and didn't take filters.
Besides, I rarely shoot below 24mm and if I have to, mainly for some architectural work, I'd prefer to get the 17 f/4L TS-E...
I'm sure the new 24-70/2.8L II will be better than the (long, heavy and not so great at wider settings) 24-70/2.8 AFS, I prefer the rendition of the 70-200/2.8L IS II to that of the 70-200/2.8 VR II, but both are a bit too heavy in my book for the (limited) focal length. Despite a rather bad ergonomics I'm always amazed at the results from my 70-300L IS, which is WAY better than the 70-300 VR (used one for a while).
I just got a used inexpensive (less than 400 $) EF 100 f/2, great optics, small and light.
Nikon 105 DC is very nice and probably a bit better optically but it is bigger, heavier and it doesn't focus as fast and/or precisely. I had the 135 DC and it was optically great but I missed many shots because of imprecise focussing. No match for the 135/2L.
Nikon doesn't have any 70-200 f/4 version, their 105 VR Micro is stupidly large, their 85 PC-Micro is clumsy compared to the slick 90 TSE, which is also better optically at wider apertures, with much better bokeh also.
The big guns are great in both brands, but no VR on 300/4, no 400/5.6, an old 80-400 VR don't help choosing Nikon for any less than wealthy wildlife shooter.
The new Canon superteles are also substantially lighter, although *ouch* uber-expensive...
That is not to say that Nikon glass is bad, FAR from it. The differences are mostly minor, but if that D800 sensor was in a Canon DSLR I'd never ever remotely think to go Nikon. Canon glass offering (and the ability to shoot almost any alternative lense on the planet) is hard to beat.
Apr 20, 2012 at 02:34 AM