p.1 #1 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
Hi once more,
I'm trying to improve my studio photography (being just an amateur), but have always been troubled by the fact that working with my Speedlights and a couple of softboxes is proving to be very frustrating for me. Problem is as most of you have already guessed, that I find it terribly difficult to focus in such low light conditions and even if I switch on the main lights in my garage/studio, I never have a clue of what the photo will look like until I have shot it and I´m looking at the back of my Nikon. So basically I'm looking for a couple of studio flashes with modeling light that are also compatible with my TT1 AC3 and TT5 remote triggering system. I know that ALIEN BEES together with an AC9 adapter from PW work fine, but would like to know of other options I might find out there that can be more economical if at all possible. The Alien Bees I´m talking about are the smallest of their series, I think they are the B400.
The modeling light will also help me to avoid stumbling into the tethering cable I plan on using with a tablet I recently acquired.
p.1 #2 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
Each AB needs the AC9 adapter plus a Flex TT5-
Flex @$230 + AC9 @$62 + B1600 $360 = $652
Einstein just needs the Power MC2 for $100-
Einstein @$500 + Power MC2 @$100 = $600
I used the B1600 since it has the same power output as the Einstein. Cost could be less if you're going to use your existing TT5s.... but I've found it nice to be able to mix studio lights and speedlights.
I don't think there's anything cheaper that includes remote power control with the flex system. You can get cheaper if you just want remote triggering without power control. In that case, a PW Plus2 or Plus3 will trigger pretty much any studio strobe.
p.1 #3 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
The TT1 will trigger any Pocket wizard receiver. If the receiver is a TT5 then you can trigger any strobe with a sync socket and assign A,B and C groups using the AC3 and TT1. Just plug a cord from the sync socket to the TT5's 3.5mm flash port. I use a Flex TT5 with a Profoto Acute2 1200 and it works fine. Just assign the channels you want to use.....
Something like the AC9 or PowerMC2 for Buff's products, or the Elinchrom specific PowerST4 work with the PW ControlTL system in an expanded fashion offering 6 stop adjustment to the power levels, power tracking, and other functions so there is that beyond simple triggering.
p.1 #4 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
Even with the B400, it would be 230 + 62 + 225 = $517... $83 to get the Einstein, at 4 times more power with better control and consistency would be much worth it.
p.1 #5 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
Thanks Kris & Waki,
I must say that I already have the TT1, an AC3 and three Flex TT5´s, so no expense there, only the two AC9's @ $62.- would be bearable. I do however agree that being able to use the speedlights is something to bear in mind; in my case I would still have a spare.. So as I understand it the AB's being cheaper than the Einstein would be my best option. My "studio" is rather small, and the flashes would be placed close to the subject, that's the reason I believe that the 160 W should be enough in my case, but still, I am no expert and prefer to listen to someone who is. By the way, the other really important feature I get to keep by using my Pwizards is the iTTL that together with the AC3 I would be a great global solution.
I'm going to check out the Buff and Elinchrom you are mentioning Waki.
p.1 #6 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
Just to clarify, TTL metering doesn't work with studio strobes. You get remote manual power control, and power tracking- but no automatic exposure.
160WS is about twice as powerful as an average speed light, so that should give you a good reference. For single subjects, you're probably OK "most" of the time depending on what you're doing and what modifiers you're using.
I actually have my Power MC2s usually set to -2 exposure comp, which limits me to 160 WS doing indoor stuff on the einsteins. I use beauty dishes and soft boxes most of the time and this has been plenty of power. Without the -2 exposure comp, I'd sometimes have too much power.
But outdoors, I have one set to 0 comp to get the full power range. So I do like having the extra power available when I need it. And I seem to be doing more outdoor work lately.
I guess I would call myself a generalist photographer, though... so I've always opted for more options than less. If you're really doing just studio work on FX and smaller frame SLRs, you probably don't "need" the extra power.
p.1 #7 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
Right! Studio lights do not support TTL style signals. With the TT1/TT5/AC3 you can use studio strobes with TTL, iTTL or eTTL driven speed light strobes. The ControlTL signals will be sent to the TT5's connected to the speedlights based on exposure values from the camera just like normal. You trigger the studio lights at the same time using exposure values set manually so you can mix it up. You could also just use the speedlights in manual as well. Lots of possibilities. Flex TT5's and the AC3/TT1 are pretty cool in that regard. I'll be incorporating PW Plus III's once they are in stock. Quad zones, 1-32 channels......
p.1 #8 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
Thanks a lot to both of you, Kris & Waki.
I was almost decided to go for the two AB B400's, but after a thorough read of your comments I understood that I would be limiting my possibilities if I went for those small units tailored more to my actual working space and rendering them more or less useless for outdoor use (maybe just fill light).... So since my budget is limited I have gone and purchased one AlienBees B1600 and use my flash lights for hair, background or secondary lighting. The AlienBees B1600 on a huge octobox shuld be enough for me to see the main light using modeling light and also shed enough light in my studio. And if I ever do some work outdoors, that same B1600 should have plenty of power to fight against the spanish sunshine
In the future I might just go and get a twin when I can afford it.
Thanks again guys.
Spanish Flyer (Springer)
p.1 #10 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
No clues on how to reduce AlienBees H1600 power electronically, that is, without physically blocking the light by mechanical means such as partial opaque baffle?
I removed the silver lining on the octabox leaving the white one, but I still get too much light...
p.1 #11 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
I'm not sure I'm understanding why you're having issues with the Einstein. According to spec, it can be reduced by 8 stops ... which puts it down even lower than the lowest level of the AB400 (which I have) ... so spending money on the B400 won't get you to a lower output than is capable with the Einstein.
You can always check with PCB via the PCB forums. It sounds to me like you're overlooking something very simple ... @ reducing power in the Einstein.
PCB also makes units to control power wired or wirelessly ... but you should still be able to reduce power manually without the need for remote functionality.
p.1 #12 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
Hi rustybug,
I might have mislead you with regards to the AlienBees I have, since it is not an Einstein but an AB1600. This unit same as the AB400 has a slider on the back that you can adjust by moving it to the right to increase the power output; mine right now is shifted totally to the left, delivering thus (as far as I can understand in my very limited experience), minimum power output. I have PocketWizards TT1 and TT5 units triggering my speedlights, but for the Alienbees 1600 I'm waiting to receive the AC9, an adapter that allows the TT5 to control the AB, so in the mean time I'm just using the cable it came with to trigger it. Might be doing something wrong using the cable and the PWizards at the same time, but as I understand it, with the slider on the alienbees to the minimum, it shouldn't deliver more than the minimum.
Problem is I won't know it until I get the AC9 from PW....
And as you say, I'm in trouble if the AB400 behaves the same way, because I have already ordered it.
Thanks for the input, just keep it coming...
Springer
p.1 #13 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
According to Paul C. Buff the AB400 does give less power at its minimum if compared to the AB1600 (5Ws vs 20Ws) being the AB800 10 Ws, so the 15 Ws difference might do the trick; check out his webpage: http://www.paulcbuff.com/alienbees.php
And as I mentioned before, even though I now know that the Einstein unit is more versatile, the AB400 is on its way so I have to learn to live with it. (being the smallest PCB sells), I see no reason why this unit should not work in a small studio, it wouldn't make sense.
I have just received the first AC9 which in theory should allow me to use the AB's in the nikon iTL mode, meaning that the power output of the flash adapts to the f/ number I set the camera to; It has worked perfectly with the Speedlights, so if Pocket Wizard says so I see no reason why it shouldn't work with the AB's. I'm not suggesting that it will make the AB1600 fire with less than its minimum, but I will get rid of the cable and also set each light to whatever output I set on my AC3 3 bank signal output (the AC3 sits on top of the Mini TT1) on the cameras hotshoe and splits the radio signal into three different channels, so having three Flex TT5 receivers, one on each flash unit I can set the output of each flash in very small increments from +3 to -3 in 1/10 increments (20 different settings) for each channel A, B or C. In portraiture most of the times you are looking for narrow depth of field and that comes with big apertures 1.8 to 4 max, so excsive light can be a problem, and that we all know. Raising iso is not an option.
I want to believe that the AB400 will give me the little power needed in my small studio while the AB1600, set at its lowest will also work fine with a beauty dish or smaller softboxes at more distance from the subject, contrary to the big octabox I placed behind my model to be used as a bright white background. And if the worst comes to the worst I will place a dish in front of the AB 1600, just like the beauty dish has, but inside a softbox, so no real direct light hits the diffusers; I know PCB sells one with his big 47" octabox...
I will update my findings once I try the Pocket Wizards with the new AC9 wired to the AlienBees 1600; it will be interesting to say the least..
p.1 #14 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
Yes, the B400 can get pretty low ... even lower with a BD & a sock. Be aware, you might expect to see a color shift when shooting it at its lowest settings.
p.1 #15 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
Just when I was about to vent my frustration and not having enough power with constant lights, look what I found on the 1st post of this forum!!! Love it!
Please keep the suggestions coming. I also have 4 Pocket Wizards and would like to be able to control the amount of light via those.
p.1 #16 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
Too early to say, but I connected the TT5/AC9 combo to the AB 1600, put on the beauty dish I also purchased from PCB and tried it out on its own; one think I can assure, the AC3 on top of the TT1 controls the power output of the AB PERFECTLY . From 0 to +3 and 0 to -3 the power output from the dish increases and decreases accordingly. The other that I'm not sure but I get the feeling that is happening is that the light blast from the strobe is much lower than when I used the cable trigger, "as if" PowerWizards and cable plugged to the camera was making the AB 1600 fire at a higher rate than the minimum I manually adjusted with the lever on the back of the unit. As I say, not 100% sure till I set it up once more the same way I had it when I shot the pics shown above, with the exception of using only PowerWizards on both Speedlight and AB, but it does look promising...
p.1 #17 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
I'm going to start by reiterating a few things; I have a feeling some things I mentioned might be getting lost in translation, or I didn't fully explain-
Mr Kris wrote:
Just to clarify, TTL metering doesn't work with studio strobes. You get remote manual power control, and power tracking- but no automatic exposure.
160WS is about twice as powerful as an average speed light, so that should give you a good reference. For single subjects, you're probably OK "most" of the time depending on what you're doing and what modifiers you're using.
I actually have my Power MC2s usually set to -2 exposure comp, which limits me to 160 WS doing indoor stuff on the einsteins. I use beauty dishes and soft boxes most of the time and this has been plenty of power. Without the -2 exposure comp, I'd sometimes have too much power. ...Show more →
You mentioned: springer wrote:
I have just received the first AC9 which in theory should allow me to use the AB's in the nikon iTL mode, meaning that the power output of the flash adapts to the f/ number I set the camera to;
As I mentioned, studio flashes don't work with TTL metering. The AC9 allows remote power control (and it may even allow "power tracking" depending on your transmitter), but it doesn't enable any automatic TTL flash metering of any sort.
I also mentioned sometimes needing to dial in -2 stops of flash compensation to get reasonable exposures on the Einstein, so it is certainly the case that you may have too much power sometimes when working close.
But, you can work with that. You can double diffuse.... you won't get the same look, but it's easy to get even softer light. Stick a plain old white sheet in front of your softbox, and you'd be surprised how nice of a soft, large light source you can create. You can also buy purpose specific gels to stick in front of your strobes to reduce light output.
p.1 #18 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
Kris,
there is nothing lost in the translation, just maybe some info from PocketWizard that is not readily available. I have to admit once more my inexperience in such matters, but up till now PW have delivered gear that works as advertised. What I mentioned previously is what PW states in their documentation, not what I believe or hope to be true..
Having said that I guess the best is just to add a couple of sections on the AC9 instruction leaflet so you read it through. As far as I understand, they do admit to being able to control the AB's as long as you have the TT1/AC3 on your camera and a TT5/AC9 on the AB.
Must say I have just tried it out for a few shots, but as I said it looks very promising. By the way ControlTL by PW and TTL are not the same; they are talking about "Control The Light" and to me that is good enough.
Let me try further tomorrow and will post my findings; my idea is to set everything as I had it before and see what results I get. It's a pity I have not received the AB 400 because I would then install that one on the octabox instead of the AB 1600, to make sure that the minimum output is lower so the white background does not overpower the rest and allows me to use lower f/ stops.
p.1 #19 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
OK, I think we agree then...
Your previous post mentioned "nikon iTL mode" which I took to mean iTTL- Nikon's current TTL metering technology. I agree ControlTL will allow you to adjust power remotely.
p.1 #20 · STUDIO FLASHES COMPATIBLE WITH POCKET WIZARDS
Sorry for my terminology mistake Mr Kris, me bad.. anyway, let's see if I can repeat the test tomorrow and with my camera in hand, no cables attached I can by adjusting the AC3 get the correct exposure from both AB and Speedlight, even if I have to adjust my f/stop higher than what I would like to.
Might get lucky and receive the AB 400 tomorrow.. then it would be a double test.
Best regards,
Springer
. From 0 to +3 and 0 to -3 the power output from the dish increases and decreases accordingly. The other that I'm not sure but I get the feeling that is happening is that the light blast from the strobe is much lower than when I used the cable trigger, "as if" PowerWizards and cable plugged to the camera was making the AB 1600 fire at a higher rate than the minimum I manually adjusted with the lever on the back of the unit. As I say, not 100% sure till I set it up once more the same way I had it when I shot the pics shown above, with the exception of using only PowerWizards on both Speedlight and AB, but it does look promising...