p.21 #1 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
timbop wrote:
gee Todd, thanks for educating me about professional cameras. I suppose I was just mistaken that my 1d mark 2 and 5d's qualified.
The 5d3 has the same system as the 7d, and I never really felt it necessary cry incessantly.
And no, I don't do still work on film sets. Somehow I thought this was a public canon forum and not cinema5d
Thanks for taking me out of context. What I wrote was:
Just because you have never used a professional VF on a professional camera before OR just because you have never used a feature before...
Quit being a Canon apologist and trolling the boards just because the brand of camera you have makes you feel mightier than your psyche will allow. ~90% of the people here are also fans of Canon, but I suspect the majority see these as tools and not a personal extension of our ego. Just because someone doesn't like something about a new camera (and there are a lot who are complaining about this particular issue) does not necessarily mean our complaints are a personal attack on you or your oh so precious camera kit. You managed to address this one issue (albeit out of context) and ignored the rest of my response because you knew I was right and you don't have a leg to stand on. Now move along...please.
One last thing; shills for one camera vendor or the other are only making photo gear worse for consumers. I remember back when Canon ruled the roost. Nobody could touch Canon's Rebel, 20D, 5D Mark I, and professional cameras, not to mention its wonderful line-up of lenses. What happened next? Everyone in the Nikon camp rioted. They were pissed. And Canon fans rejoiced. They were proud of the company they had invested a great deal of money into. However, things changed. Canon then realized, either intentionally or otherwise, that their fan base would stay loyal no matter what; either because financially they had no other choice given the cost to change out an entire kit, or because consumers like you fell in love with the logo and instead of the product(s) itself and/or needed to have some odd sense of personal validation. As a consequence Nikon got much, much stronger than they were, and Canon rested on its laurels and tripped over itself again and again. Did they make a horrible product? No, but they were no longer the king of the hill.
So continue being an apologist for Canon. Continue lurking on threads that don't concern you at all. And continue wearing that cheerleader outfit and shaking your pompoms for no particular reason at all. All it means is that Canon will continue to nearly get it right, and the longer it will take them to get to the top of the hill again.
So yes, in some odd way, it's people like you I blame for my effed up VF.
p.21 #2 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
I actually came back to this thread to see if there was news on a firmware update or something, and saw that the hyperbole got worse - and mistakenly tried to point that out. I get that the fact that I've managed to do just fine remembering where the selected AF point is in the viewfinder for three years and you haven't been able to do that really bothers you.
I am not a canon apologist, I am a realist. When the 60d came out, I bitched vehemently. Recently I have complained about the 3 new f/2.8 primes, in particular the new 40 which is obviously targeted at the rebel crowd. It also belies the fact that Canon is unlikely to update the 35/2 or even 28/1.8 - which disappointments due to both of those lens' weaknesses. I also gave suggestions to newer OPs when they asked for them.
I get that you guys just want to spend months harping on the same thing, although adding to the list of severe difficulties it is causing you.
enjoy your bitchfest. I am sure it will make you feel better about yourself.
p.21 #4 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
tonyfield wrote:
Seems to me that the LCD implementation is very restrictive - Canon will have difficulty to come up with anything more than minor fixes. Basically, they cannot do any metering when the focus points are illuminated - a tough situation for AI-servo. However, I can certainly speculate about a few tweak that might enhance (but certainly not fix) the 5D-III issue. Oh well, yet another set of issues that we have to work around when shooting.
This is what I really hate about the 1DX. It's supposedly Canon's Flagship body but you have to work around issues like taping pins to get AF at f/8 and viewfinder illumination that makes no sense in low light. For those of us that want 1 series bodies it's frustrating as we are paying a 40% increase in cost for this so called advanced engineering.
p.21 #5 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
pompo wrote:
when you do make sure you try it with a 1.2 or 1.4 lens too, if your shooting with those, you'd want to try it with those, the viewfinder is even worst with those, since there is a lot more light coming in and in bright daylight the AF points becomes so much lighter, almost grayish!
p.21 #6 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
This is why I never buy the very first version of any new model of anything. I always wait at least 1 year, so most of the bugs can be worked out. I also don't understand how companies can start selling products that have inherent defects, i.e. light leakage. Just my $.02
p.21 #7 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
can anyone point me in the direction of a video showing the VF illumination from a subject's perspective (mirror shot perhaps)? I'm curious how obvious it is.
p.21 #8 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
pipspeak wrote:
can anyone point me in the direction of a video showing the VF illumination from a subject's perspective (mirror shot perhaps)? I'm curious how obvious it is.
here is a video, look how you can clearly see it and the ambient light is not even that low!
&feature=colike
this is the "intelligent viewfinder" at work ! Have you ever seen a mess like this before?
notice how light the black AF point become, he used a 1.4 lens for this video I think, the brighter the lens the lighter the black AF points become...it's a shame we have an incredible new AF with this garbage of a viewfinder...
&feature=youtu.be
p.21 #9 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
Hmmm. Thanks. Looks like Canon made one step forward with AF capability and one step back with implementation. I'll have to rent one to experience it first hand, but the new VF does look a tad distracting and I can see how that red flash through the lens could be a game changer for set/theater photogs
p.21 #10 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
pipspeak wrote:
Hmmm. Thanks. Looks like Canon made one step forward with AF capability and one step back with implementation. I'll have to rent one to experience it first hand, but the new VF does look a tad distracting and I can see how that red flash through the lens could be a game changer for set/theater photogs
No, I would say 1 step forward on AF capability and 2 steps back on implementation.
Sure glad I didn't get a 1-DX. I would really be mad.
p.21 #11 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
I have Just ordered a 3 stops ND filter for bright daylight shootings, the black af points should be as visible as when using a 2.8 lens with it, hopefully the AF won't lose too much speed...
It isn't a fix but if it should improve shooting in daylight quite a bit with fast primes at least.
p.21 #12 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
Well, the 1DX manual has finally leaked onto the internets and it looks like nothing has changed. THere is the one extra option to give an AF icon in the direct viewfinder and not the green dot below the VF if you want to confirm AF is achieved.
THey actually added some specific notes that directly say that no focus point will be seen in Servo. Unless this leaked manual is an older version, it doesn't look too promising for any major changes coming anytime soon. Will have to wait and see if a lot of 1DX users start to complain as then Canon may listen a little more closely. However, as all the 1st allocation is going specifically to Olympic shooters, I don't think they will have any issues except maybe for not seeing their AF point in Servo. They aren't generally shooting with lower than f/2.8 lenses and they are in relatively good lighting where the black points will show easily.
I just returned from shooting the F1 race in Montreal and had no issues while panning and tracking the cars with the 5D3 and 300 f/2.8 II.
p.21 #13 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
arbitrage wrote:
Well, the 1DX manual has finally leaked onto the internets and it looks like nothing has changed. THere is the one extra option to give an AF icon in the direct viewfinder and not the green dot below the VF if you want to confirm AF is achieved.
Is the lack of an AF point in Servo specific to the 1DX? I see the AF point on my 5DMK3 in AI Servo mode.
FWIW I was just at the Olympic site. The venues are pretty massive, but designed to come apart after the games to they capacity can be scaled down to post games use.
p.21 #14 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
arbitrage wrote:
THey actually added some specific notes that directly say that no focus point will be seen in Servo. Unless this leaked manual is an older version, it doesn't look too promising for any major changes coming anytime soon. Will have to wait and see if a lot of 1DX users start to complain as then Canon may listen a little more closely. However, as all the 1st allocation is going specifically to Olympic shooters, I don't think they will have any issues except maybe for not seeing their AF point in Servo. They aren't generally shooting with lower than f/2.8 lenses and they are in relatively good lighting where the black points will show easily. ...Show more →
Geoff,
None of the existing Canon bodies has the active AF point lit as a focus confirmation in the AI Servo mode. It is displayed but not lit to confirm focus. The focus point/plane will actively move back and forth to follow focus depending on the distance between the camera and the moving target in this mode and it would be simply not feasible to get a focus confirmation as such.
p.21 #15 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
jerrykur wrote:
Is the lack of an AF point in Servo specific to the 1DX? I see the AF point on my 5DMK3 in AI Servo mode.
I have had the 5D-III for about a week - it's amazing how quickly Canon's choice for focus point display really made my life difficult for shooting a sports venue and an art shoot. Seems like I have to learn how to get around the issues.
For much shooting with the 5D-III (and therefore with the 1DX), the black focus point selected in AI-servo is visible and works well. However, for various other shooting with different lighting conditions and backgrounds - for example theatre and dance, some fashion work, some parts of weddings, some sports etc - the point is very hard to see and blends into the image. What should happen, as on the 1D-III, 1D-IV, and 5D-II, the selected focus point should blink in red when you press the AF-ON button. This allows you to instantly see exactly where the focus point is. The 1D-IV is even better in that it remains on for 5 seconds.
Here is an example in which the tones of the subject made me visually search for the focus point. When the focus point was on the lady's black costume, I could virtually not see the point. When it was on the grass, it was difficult to see because of the similar tonality and the texture of the grass. In other words, I had to concentrate on the focus point and not on the subject. On the other cameras, pressing the AF-ON button would immediately blink red and you could decide what you want to do with the focus point. I had to revert to Single Shot mode simply to get the focus point to blink in a useful manner.
p.21 #16 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
tonyfield wrote:
For much shooting with the 5D-III (and therefore with the 1DX), the black focus point selected in AI-servo is visible and works well. However, for various other shooting with different lighting conditions and backgrounds - for example theatre and dance, some fashion work, some parts of weddings, some sports etc - the point is very hard to see and blends into the image. What should happen, as on the 1D-III, 1D-IV, and 5D-II, the selected focus point should blink in red when you press the AF-ON button. This allows you to instantly see exactly where the focus point is. The 1D-IV is even better in that it remains on for 5 seconds.
Here is an example in which the tones of the subject made me visually search for the focus point. When the focus point was on the lady's black costume, I could virtually not see the point. When it was on the grass, it was difficult to see because of the similar tonality and the texture of the grass. In other words, I had to concentrate on the focus point and not on the subject. On the other cameras, pressing the AF-ON button would immediately blink red and you could decide what you want to do with the focus point. I had to revert to Single Shot mode simply to get the focus point to blink in a useful manner. ...Show more →
Tony, I understand where you are coming from. I am sure it can be fixed in the form of a firmware. However, Canon has to somehow manage to get two types of illumination for the LED. One type to identify the location of the active AF point and another to give the AF confirmation. Jess (photon) came up with a "method" of a bright and blinking LED for focus confirmation and a steady but less bright LED for the position of the active AF point. Plus, of course, you can turn the audible confirmation on and see the round green light in the bottom bar of the viewfinder to get that, too.
That's a great shot , BTW. In your case, I would aim my AF point, not the center one at a contrasty target anyway such as the boundary between her skin and her black outfit, like in the chest area, no offense . I am not telling you what to do as you are an accomplished photographer anyway and you did capture that image very well.
p.21 #17 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
AGeoJO wrote:
Tony, I understand where you are coming from. I am sure it can be fixed in the form of a firmware. However, Canon has to somehow manage to get two types of illumination for the LED. One type to identify the location of the active AF point and another to give the AF confirmation. Jess (photon) came up with a "method" of a bright and blinking LED for focus confirmation and a steady but less bright LED for the position of the active AF point. Plus, of course, you can turn the audible confirmation on and see the round green light in the bottom bar of the viewfinder to get that, too. ...Show more →
If that is possible with a simple firmware fix, I would be most pleased.
That's a great shot , BTW. In your case, I would aim my AF point, not the center one at a contrasty target anyway such as the boundary between her skin and her black outfit, like in the chest area, no offense . I am not telling you what to do as you are an accomplished photographer anyway and you did capture that image very well.
No offence taken at all - in this case, we had just shot a vertical with the focus point one or two notches above the centre point. When she laid back, the focus point was on her lower body to the right and could not be seen. Since I reflexively pressed the AF-ON button to locate the present placement of the focus point, nothing happened - I then pressed the focus point select button to move to her skin. Seems to me I will start to use the "focus point by orientation" option to simplify some things when switching between portrait and landscape orientation.
This is simply something I have to learn to live with - but it does make it harder since this is a different way of working compared to the other Canon cameras. Aside from the illumination issue, the focus system of the 5D-III is absolutely superb
p.21 #18 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
tonyfield wrote:
I had to revert to Single Shot mode simply to get the focus point to blink in a useful manner.
(Tony: this is a great image, thanks for sharing.)
You mean One Shot AF?
I will sound pedantic for saying this, but One Shot is often the appropriate AF mode for most shooting anyway (when things aren't moving). The system will often lock faster and will not hunt or chatter in anticipation of movement where none exists.
I realize that many photographers keep the camera in AI Servo all the time, and changing habits is hard, but if people could consider incorporating One Shot into their shooting approach, this problem will be greatly diminished, at least until Canon releases a firmware update (assuming they do).
FYI, I've found that on the 5D Mark III, you can reprogram the DOF button to instantly switch between One Shot and AI Servo, which can be a great way to "have your cake and eat it too" and a potential work-around for this issue.
p.21 #19 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
garyvot wrote:
FYI, I've found that on the 5D Mark III, you can reprogram the DOF button to instantly switch between One Shot and AI Servo, which can be a great way to "have your cake and eat it too" and a potential work-around for this issue.
And it works both ways, BTW. If you are in a single AF mode, you can switch to AI Servo instantly by pressing the button you assigned for that, like the DOF preview button. And if you are in the AI Servo mode, you can swith to the single AF mode instantly by pressing the the same button. I like this feature and use it quite a bit in my shooting.
p.21 #20 · 5d M III Viewfinder illumination and af points!
The problem with One Shot mode is that if you have the camera set to provide illumination the whole grid and VF flash red when changing or verifying AF point placement, which means another problem presents itself: the red illuminated AF point is easily lost. One can turn off illumination, but then you're back to the old problem...the AF point is black and gets lost in certain backgrounds. Also, when shooting a situation where there is a combination of both action and stationary subject matter, adding another step to the process is cumbersome and problematic.
I guess I don't understand why Canon felt necessary to fix something that wasn't broken.
, BTW. In your case, I would aim my AF point, not the center one at a contrasty target anyway such as the boundary between her skin and her black outfit, like in the chest area, no offense 
. I am not telling you what to do as you are an accomplished photographer anyway and you did capture that image very well.