p.8 #1 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
j.liam wrote:
One of the draws of the Mk II was the easy interchangeability of focusing screens and options from Canon. While Nikon has no OEM options, the screens were known to be removable but third party options affect metering. (I swapped out the one in my D700 for a KatzEye and lost spot metering).
The 5DIII also have third party options just like the Nikon
p.8 #2 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Siddhu wrote:
Some additional findings (all tests were using the 35 Distagon f/1.4 wide open):
- I was consistently able to focus faster and more accurately with the 5D2 using the EG-s screen compared to the 5D3 without any sort of focus assist, just the stock screen in the 5D3.
- Even with AF micro-adjustment, there was variations in focus on each shot meaning that the focus confirm has a "range" thats greater then the DOF of the 35mm f1.4 at about 2 meters.
Important, YMMV. My testing was based on shooting the 35 wide open at f1.4 at different distances with and emphasis on distances needed to frame someone for a full length portrait as I find this a difficult distance to focus accurately with the 35mm.
I tried calibrating the AF and I found that a setting of +4 or +5 gave me the most accurate results BUT there was a lack of precision as some shots were closer in focus than others. This calibration was done using a test target and the camera on a tripod. This was by no means the most rigourous scientific test (don't have the time right now) but it was educational.
I think that with careful calibration of the AF for each lens, one could definitely rely on the AF for focus for the majority of situations, but one would still have to be careful when shooting at f1.4 or f2.
I would love it if someone else was to give it a go with the 35 Distagon f/1.4 wide open and report back.
I'm going to do some more testing tomorrow before I have to return the rental 5D3.
On another note, 3200 ISO is definitely better than the 5D2. ...Show more →
Why didn't you use focus assist when your lens is chipped and has Canon mount ? Everybody here it's better and helps you
p.8 #3 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Sven Jeppesen wrote:
The 5DIII also have third party options just like the Nikon
Exactly; and how each affects metering or MF in a non-standardized fashion will remain to be seen. And whether this voids the warranty is likewise a mystery.
p.8 #4 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
mco_970 wrote:
Siddhu, thank you for posting your findings re: the 35/1.4.
Indeed, but a bit worrying :-/
It speaks against some other findings in this thread and even though I havent used the Zeiss 35/1.4 one of my most used lenses last year was the Samyang 35/1.4 and the EG-S really shines with that.
But I would not mind switching screen even if Canon does not support it (sad though). But initial findings said AF confirm was better than in the 5D2 (apart from the 5D3 having more points of course!).
With the 5D2 there can be a significant difference moving the focus ring from MFD-up vs. moving it from Infinity-down. What I am most interested in is wideopen usage - and with that said, have anyone used a really "tough" lens such as the 85P/1.4 wide-open in fast street situations - and did the AF confirm work at all on the 5D3?
I've since a couple of days been playing with that lens and 5D2 and it is damn hard to set focus (fast) with EG-S (very low keeper rate) and all but impossible with AF-confirm. Typical shooting distance 7-10meters, dof is shallow - at best 0.5 meters for critical focus - so it's a torture test for any manual focusing efforts
Thanks for any further insights!
Apr 08, 2012 at 11:08 AM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #5 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
j.liam wrote:
Exactly; and how each affects metering or MF in a non-standardized fashion will remain to be seen. And whether this voids the warranty is likewise a mystery.
So why is Lloyd saying the D800 is much better than the 5D3 when it comes to focusing screens then?
They are exactly the same..............
Apr 08, 2012 at 11:12 AM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #6 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
wfrank wrote:
Indeed, but a bit worrying :-/
It speaks against some other findings in this thread and even though I havent used the Zeiss 35/1.4 one of my most used lenses last year was the Samyang 35/1.4 and the EG-S really shines with that.
But I would not mind switching screen even if Canon does not support it (sad though). But initial findings said AF confirm was better than in the 5D2 (apart from the 5D3 having more points of course!).
With the 5D2 there can be a significant difference moving the focus ring from MFD-up vs. moving it from Infinity-down. What I am most interested in is wideopen usage - and with that said, have anyone used a really "tough" lens such as the 85P/1.4 wide-open in fast street situations - and did the AF confirm work at all on the 5D3?
I've since a couple of days been playing with that lens and 5D2 and it is damn hard to set focus (fast) with EG-S (very low keeper rate) and all but impossible with AF-confirm. Typical shooting distance 7-10meters, dof is shallow - at best 0.5 meters for critical focus - so it's a torture test for any manual focusing efforts
p.8 #7 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
@wFrank - I don't know if my findings go against others as if I remember correctly, no one has specifically tested the 35mm wide open at 1.4. Rather, I think my findings add a perspective about wide open shooting as opposed to stopped down.
I'm going out for a beautiful sunset bike ride where I will be testing the 35mm wide open using focus confirm so I'll report back again!
p.8 #9 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Lars Johnsson wrote:
So why is Lloyd saying the D800 is much better than the 5D3 when it comes to focusing screens then?
They are exactly the same..............
Lloyd's comments there are a bit muddled; we should ask him to clarify.
p.8 #10 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Siddhu wrote:
@wFrank - I don't know if my findings go against others as if I remember correctly, no one has specifically tested the 35mm wide open at 1.4. Rather, I think my findings add a perspective about wide open shooting as opposed to stopped down.
I'm going out for a beautiful sunset bike ride where I will be testing the 35mm wide open using focus confirm so I'll report back again!
Yes, maybe I was summarizing a bit but from what I read so far usage of AF-confirm have been praised with wideopen usage ( in general). What you brought to the table was for me a very interesting comparison with the 5D2/EG-S vs the 5D3 regarding keeper rate (using a focale I love @ 1.4), so thanks for that
p.8 #11 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Siddhu wrote:
@wFrank - I don't know if my findings go against others as if I remember correctly, no one has specifically tested the 35mm wide open at 1.4. Rather, I think my findings add a perspective about wide open shooting as opposed to stopped down.
I'm going out for a beautiful sunset bike ride where I will be testing the 35mm wide open using focus confirm so I'll report back again!
Siddhu, when you do some additional testing with AF confirm, can you please check to see if AF confirm is more consistent directionally, ie. as Wilhelm said:
With the 5D2 there can be a significant difference moving the focus ring from MFD-up vs. moving it from Infinity-down.
I wasn't sure if you were doing your focus adjust in the same direction as when you are shooting & whether that would be a factor on the faster ZE's w/ 5D3.
p.8 #12 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
This may illustrate what I am looking for (or it may not.. :o).
It's a shot from the streets today with the 85P/1.4 taken with the 5D2. As you can see in the image this couple is perhaps 0.5 meter apart (difference in focus distance). And in the crop below the woman is OOF whereas the man is as sharp as this lens gets on a moving subject in this harsh light (I think). "DOF" (FWIW) would be something like 0.5 meter or so (~2 feet).
There is no way AF-confirm on the 5D2 can be trusted, it's just too liberal. Very low hit ratio would be the result. It was shot using the EG-S and is one of few hits I got today. Out of say 30 shots (deliberately trying to catch moving people @ 1.4 at around this distance) perhaps 4 was as sharp as this, another 5-7 acceptable for small usage but the rest crap.
(For the record, motion blur is NOT the issue as shutter times are in the 1/thousands, but the movement makes it hard to nail focus of course.)
I call it a torture test because with a 35/1.4 and EG-S the hit rate would be much higher.
If the 5D3 have the chance to deliver more hits with an 85P than what I got today it would be great to know!
p.8 #13 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
@wFrank - I forgot to mention that I am able to have a 90%-95%+ in focus shooting super fast in reportage style - for example backstage at a fashion show. This is using the EG-S screen on the 5D2 so maybe it's just a practice thing.
@mco_970 - When I was testing and calibrating the AF on the 5D3, I was always moving from infinity to focus i.e. moving the focus ring clockwise.
p.8 #14 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Siddhu wrote:
@wFrank - I forgot to mention that I am able to have a 90%-95%+ in focus shooting super fast in reportage style - for example backstage at a fashion show. This is using the EG-S screen on the 5D2 so maybe it's just a practice thing.
Thanks, yes sure. With a 35/1.4 I would do that too. But not with a 85/1.4 @ F/1.4. It's much harder and what is what I tried to exemplify in my last post.
(though I am nowhere near backstage fashion shows, but I understand the conditions :-)
Michelle, I have various experience with AF-confirm coming from MFD-to-focus or the opposite, Infinity-to-focus. It depends on the lens and shooting distance. In other threads I've elaborated on this, and I assume it also depends on copies (perhaps with the exception of Zeiss', but I am not sure).
p.8 #15 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
@Sven Jeppesen (just saw your question on the previous page) - My first goal was to test the ability to focus manually with the stock screen in the 5D3 compared to the EG-S screen in the 5D2. So I spent a day shooting this way. That's why I did not use focus confirm - it was to test what others had said about the stock screen in the 5D3 being equal to the EG-S screen in the 5D2.
The purpose of my renting the 5D3 was to try it out and see how it compares to the 5D2 so I obviously had to use it first, in a way that is comparable to my use of my ZE lenses on the 5D2. After this was done I moved on to using focus confirm without any micro-adjustment (results were not impressive), and now after doing the AF calibration, I'm going to shoot with it tomorrow as a final test.
As I have said, YMMV, and shooting stopped down with AF calibration should give a very good keeper rate with the 5D3. But at f/1.4 or at f/2, I don't know as I have not been able to have a very high rate of in focus shots.
p.8 #16 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
I'm not sure if I could capture sharply a moving target with a 85mm @ f1.4. By the time I focused and then tripped the shutter the subject would be slightly out of focus. Pehaps I need more practice.
I would either stop down or switch to AF servo and put my Zeiss back in the bag.
When content is king I change to the best tools for the job.
p.8 #17 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Thanks Wilhelm & thanks Siddhu for clarification.
I have been thinking about the issue, and at this point I am leaning a bit toward trying some Contax N lenses on my 5D2 (working my way through the N thread to understand any issues).
Wilhelm, if I go with ZE's, I will dig up your old posts on direction of travel for focusing. It's an interesting concept, and maybe something I can use on my 50/1.2 to good effect.
ETA: discussed 5D2 vs. 5D3 w/ DH & a friend tonight at dinner, and they said to stop being an idiot and order 5D3. Problem solved. Still thinking I'll sell some Canon gear and try an N or two with it.
Oh yeah, and I did try focus adjusting my 50/1.2 w/ chipped Leitax on 5D2 and there's a big difference in which direction I turn it to achieve focus confirmation. If I turn from infinity to focus point, it's waaaay off. If I turn from MFD to focus point, it's pretty much bang on at 1.2. So, Wilhelm, that was a very useful data point! Looking forward to trying it on 5D3!
p.8 #18 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Well after 3 days of testing the 5D3 with the Zeiss 35mm f1.4 I can say the following based on my testing/observations however your YMMV:
1) Manual focus (no focus assist) is more precise and accurate on the 5D2 with the EG-S screen. I was able to consistently have a 90%+ keeper rate as opposed to maybe 50% on the 5D3 when shooting wide open. This is both the test target and various static subjects out and about.
2) After calibrating the AF micro-adjust, my shots were closer to being in focus than without any calibration but there was variations in the focus point. What I mean by this is that the AF confirm does not always indicate at the same point, some shots are more in focus than others but they are not really dead on sharp the way they are when I'm at f/4 or using live view.
3) So even with the 5D3 on a tripod and aimed at a test target 1.75 meters away, when using the focus confirm, some shots were more in focus than others. This is even after the AF micro-adjustment. Again, I was shooting wide open and the depth of field at that distance for the 35mm at f/1.4 is 20.9 cm.
4) After getting the AF adjustment as close as possible (+3), I went out to shoot some license plates at about 2m - 3m. I found that similar to the test target, when shooting wide open and relying on the focus confirm, some shots were more in focus than others, and I was able to have many more shots in perfect focus by eye than with the AF confirm. NONE of the AF confirm shots were right on matching the live view or the few shots that I managed to perfectly focus using the VF. This is again shooting at f/1.4.
5) Shooting at f4 with the focus confirm all my shots were in sharp, clear focus.
For me, the 5D3 is a no go for shooting at f/1.4 to f/2 (with MF glass), and maybe even f/2.8 depending on focal length using the AF confirm and/or the stock screen. If you are shooting stopped down, you can totally rely on the AF confirm and get perfectly focused shots.
If I am to buy the 5D3, I will definitely get a 3d party screen because a large part of my shooting style is to shoot wide open and in some situations such as backstage or at a party, I have to shoot wide open.
Note - All my testing was done using the most accurate and precise centre focus point on the 5D3.
I would welcome it, if someone else was to do the same and try shooting with the 5D3 + Zeiss glass wide open so we can compare our results.
p.8 #19 · 5D III for alt and MF lenses: a game changer!
Thanks for the info. I'd like to know if there is any improvement on focus confirmation range compare to 5d2. I am a Nikon shooter, but would appreciate feedback. It will apply to d800 I guess.
On the other hand I've had bad experience with AF microadjustments, when I have adjusted at one length another length goes off. I haven't microadjusted any lenses so far on my 5D3, and all are in perfect focus with the Zone AF focusing system.
Problem solved. Still thinking I'll sell some Canon gear and try an N or two with it.