There is at present only one model in this category. What might a K-02 have going for it? More awesome Marc Newson-ness? The K-01 has reportedly been inspired by this chair design:
Or maybe it was designed while sitting in the chair, I'm just not sure. Those who enjoy funky clogs will probably enjoy the camera though.
I think during 2012 three things will happen: the k01 will be a sales failure, Newson will receive another design award for the k01, and Pentax will realise that those 2 things are unrelated.
deadwolfbones wrote:
K-mount, compatibility with thousands of legacy lenses w/o adapter.
The question then becomes 'Does it meter continuously with pre-A lenses?'. Because if it uses the green button method a NEX and adapter will actually work better with K lenses since you get Av and continuous metering in manual (And TAv if you set the NEX to S mode with auto-iso with manual lenses). The green button hack was a great idea to add pre-A compatibility to the *istD after the fact but is no patch on continuous metering and LV/EVF composition
deadwolfbones wrote:
K-mount, compatibility with thousands of legacy lenses w/o adapter.
For all those Pentax owners with a three lens spread - something like 28/50/135 or 35/50/135mm -the K-01 to me seems like it'll only be truly useful for the two shorter focal lengths.
Do you not think it'd have been a useful feature to offer a built in or optional electronic viewfinder? Particularly when shooting the longer focal lengths, unless on a tripod I find one totally necessary. But wait... no tilt rear LCD to make tripod or awkward angle shooting easier.
An EVF so the camera can gain some face-brace is for long focal length lenses (for me) so necessary in fact that I would probably choose not to shoot a 135 on this camera except in brilliant light conditions.
But wait... no EVF (or OVF) so the camera will be hard to use in brilliant light conditions! Catch 22.
Bottom line: Newson designs shapes but apparently not cameras.
I can't help but regard the K-01 as a huge fail for Pentax, given that an EVF-equipped Sony adapted NEX-5N or NEX-7 is a far more functional host for Pentax SLR lenses, at any focal length, and will work better with those lenses on a tripod too. True, both options are a little more expensive.
What Pentax seems to be telling its installed base with this camera is that they aren't all that interested in supporting all the legacy lenses, given they've not provided a body which will properly support shooting longer focal lengths. It would seem that they expect it'll mostly be used as a chubby point and shoot, and they hope you'll buy the trim newson lenses (which will all be shorter focal lengths, if any more are indeed produced) anyway.
I'm hoping this design data point does not evolve into a trend at Pentax and/or infect the Ricoh side of the joint company's product line.
sebboh wrote:
ah yes, and a wise move it is for pentax to leverage their huge market share in the dslr world...
There are a ton of K-mount lenses are floating around out there including the Pentax Limited lenses which are among some of the best primes ever made. Lead the world in DSLR market share, they do not. But I'll let them worry about their business decisions. My camera purchasing decisions are not based on who has the biggest DSLR sales, and certainly not on which camera has the best looking body. My camera purchasing decisions are based on buying combinations of cameras and lenses that can deliver great image quality. Ugly camera? Who cares. Great IQ, great lenses to use without an adapter. That's enough to get me interested.
artd wrote:
There are a ton of K-mount lenses are floating around out there including the Pentax Limited lenses which are among some of the best primes ever made. Lead the world in DSLR market share, they do not. But I'll let them worry about their business decisions. My camera purchasing decisions are not based on who has the biggest DSLR sales, and certainly not on which camera has the best looking body. My camera purchasing decisions are based on buying combinations of cameras and lenses that can deliver great image quality. Ugly camera? Who cares. Great IQ, great lenses to use without an adapter. That's enough to get me interested.
my point was about the business aspect of that decision. the only thing that the pentax has over other mirrorless cameras is only useful to a tiny fraction of the marketplace and doesn't actually bring them any new customers.
as far as great iq and great lenses go, i'd much rather use those wonderful pentax limited lenses on a NEX-7 or 5N with an adapter than the K0-1 because of the articulated lcd and evf. plus that way i can use all the great non pentax lenses as well.
artd wrote:
Great IQ, great lenses to use without an adapter...
That's exactly the problem. Pentax should have come out with a new, shallower mount with a new, small lens line. They could easily make a fully functional adapter for K mount lenses, like Sony does. Instead, you have a camera that removes the advantages of SLR (OVF, PDAF,) and also removes the advantages of mirrorless (size, adaptability.)
The K-01 is the worst of both worlds. It seems like a knee jerk reaction from Pentax in order to cash in on the current mirrorless sales, when, since it still has a mirror box, it's no more mirrorless than a Sony SLT, but without the PDAF or EVF.
The important distinction to keep in mind is that Pentax has not launched a 'mirror-less system', they have just launched a mirror-less camera body for an existing system. Thats a very big difference because a new mirror-less system needs a whole new set of lenses. Most users on this alt forum use MF lenses so this doesn't impact them so much. However in general a system needs lenses. We can see that even after all this time, sony doesn't have much of a lens lineup for the NEX system. Do you think Pentax has the resources to come up with a whole new system and then also make it attractive enough to compete with Sony who already have a couple of years of head-start, a large user base and fairly aggressive pricing? As far as I can see, they are not competing with the mirror-less 'systems', they have just launched a slightly more compact body for k-mount DSLR owners. Maybe pentax will eventually launch a mirror-less system as some point, but k-01 is not that.
sebboh wrote:
my point was about the business aspect of that decision. the only thing that the pentax has over other mirrorless cameras is only useful to a tiny fraction of the marketplace and doesn't actually bring them any new customers.
as far as great iq and great lenses go, i'd much rather use those wonderful pentax limited lenses on a NEX-7 or 5N with an adapter than the K0-1 because of the articulated lcd and evf. plus that way i can use all the great non pentax lenses as well.
I already use my Pentax lenses on a NEX but I also would be happy to have AF functionality as an option with those lenses once again.
Regarding the "business aspect": I don't know, and I don't care. Pentax doesn't employ me (and probably not you either ) to provide business analysis so I'm not going to worry about analyzing their business model, pontificating on market share, profit margins, or other such things. I'll just stick to the photography
curious80 wrote:
The important distinction to keep in mind is that Pentax has not launched a 'mirror-less system', they have just launched a mirror-less camera body for an existing system. Thats a very big difference because a new mirror-less system needs a whole new set of lenses. Most users on this alt forum use MF lenses so this doesn't impact them so much. However in general a system needs lenses. We can see that even after all this time, sony doesn't have much of a lens lineup for the NEX system. Do you think Pentax has the resources to come up with a whole new system and then also make it attractive enough to compete with Sony who already have a couple of years of head-start, a large user base and fairly aggressive pricing? As far as I can see, they are not competing with the mirror-less 'systems', they have just launched a slightly more compact body for k-mount DSLR owners. Maybe pentax will eventually launch a mirror-less system as some point, but k-01 is not that....Show more →
A better description of the K-01 is it's an SLT without the two advantages of an SLT (PDAF and an EVF).
artd wrote:
I already use my Pentax lenses on a NEX but I also would be happy to have AF functionality as an option with those lenses once again.
Regarding the "business aspect": I don't know, and I don't care. Pentax doesn't employ me (and probably not you either ) to provide business analysis so I'm not going to worry about analyzing their business model, pontificating on market share, profit margins, or other such things. I'll just stick to the photography
i'm talking about the business aspect because i don't have anything to say about the camera for my own personal use other than that it is useless for me. if i'm going to talk theoretically about how it could be useful to somebody, i might as well talk about what would have been better way to serve most everyone. i'd like pentax to succeed because in dslrs i like their ergonomics better than everybody else, they use IBIS, and they make lens designs i like. that doesn't mean i'm going to have anything positive to say about a product that isn't very well designed.
And Jesus, do you guys ever get tired of re-stating the same tired arguments about a camera you don't give two shits about in the first place? It's mind-numbing.
edit: A camera most of you have never seen in person or handled, I might add.
douglasf13 wrote:
That's exactly the problem. Pentax should have come out with a new, shallower mount with a new, small lens line. They could easily make a fully functional adapter for K mount lenses, like Sony does. Instead, you have a camera that removes the advantages of SLR (OVF, PDAF,) and also removes the advantages of mirrorless (size, adaptability.)
The K-01 is the worst of both worlds. It seems like a knee jerk reaction from Pentax in order to cash in on the current mirrorless sales, when, since it still has a mirror box, it's no more mirrorless than a Sony SLT, but without the PDAF or EVF....Show more →
I don't see how having a great line of existing lenses without an adapter is a problem. It's what makes the camera viable for me. The existing Pentax lenses are generally pretty good and in particular the Limited primes are fantastic and there is no need to wait for several years for new lenses to trickle out slowly. Case in point: how many compact primes do we have so far for the NEX system? Still just one? And I myself would have no interest in investing in yet another lens system.
A new mount with a K-mount adapter sounds nice in theory but could have been clumsy and complex in practice. Not to mention it would make the camera system more expensive.
As it stands, the K-01 is a very straightforward offering. It deliver fantastic IQ in a small and cheap package with a great lens system behind it, no need to mess with adapters. I find that kind of simplicity appealing.
An electonic viewfinder would be nice I suppose but that would have gone against the camera being cheap. Of course I don't use a viewfinder on my NEX either...I guess I'm just one of those people that doesn't get that worked up about it because if I need to be doing work where a viewfinder is important I'm probably using my DSLR instead. Otherwise I shrug it off. No PDAF? From what I can gather the AF works just fine for casual use. Again, if I was in a situation where I needed fast AF I would be using my DSLR.
(Oh, and btw...I don't think this was a "knee-jerk" reaction since Pentax had shown a propotype for a mirrorless camera like this way back in 2006...Pentax has been accused of many things, but moving quickly has never been one of them )
sebboh wrote:
i'm talking about the business aspect because i don't have anything to say about the camera for my own personal use other than that it is useless for me. if i'm going to talk theoretically about how it could be useful to somebody, i might as well talk about what would have been better way to serve most everyone. i'd like pentax to succeed because in dslrs i like their ergonomics better than everybody else, they use IBIS, and they make lens designs i like. that doesn't mean i'm going to have anything positive to say about a product that isn't very well designed....Show more →
"Well designed" seems to be a matter of opinion and because it's useless for you does not mean the same goes for me.
)