Jeff wrote:
I'm starting to think that the 7D MkII is going to go full frame; it never made sense to me that it wasn't from the outset. Having a pro feature set crop camera like the 7D when the 5D is still more an enthusiast feature set is quite simply inane. I personally think that the 7D is too close to the 60D (IQ), and really should be more comparable to the 5D (features, IQ and price).
Maybe Canon will surprise us all and make things right, or perhaps they are still on the same tangential path to yesteryear and it will take awhile longer to right the course....Show more →
Maybe combining the 5D and 7D like the did the 1 series and 1Dx.
artsupreme wrote:
+1 that is a very common misconception around here...
The 5DX wouldn't kill 1DX sales even if it was 9fps with the same AF....they are totally different markets and there are plenty of other features to differentiate the two lines. It would only help Canon by selling boat loads 5DX's - they make more on the lower end bodies. The 1DX buyers are going to buy a 1DX no matter how close the lower end model is. Same with luxury cars - top dogs are going to buy top of the line.
I disagree. Pro's don't buy pro bodies to have trophies, they buy them because FPS+buffer capacity+weather sealing are essential for their work. This is why Nikon can offer a D700 or D800 with all the pro features of a D3/D4 except FPS+buffer capacity and still sell the D3s/D4 at a premium.
snapsy wrote:
I disagree. Pro's don't buy pro bodies to have trophies, they buy them because FPS+buffer capacity+weather sealing are essential for their work. This is why Nikon can offer a D700 or D800 with all the pro features of a D3/D4 except FPS+buffer capacity and still sell the D3s/D4 at a premium.
Exactly, the PROs (or top dogs) who are using them in the elements on a daily basis who need the ruggedness and fps are going to buy them no matter what it costs, they could give a shit about a 5D...and yes there are plenty who buy them for trophies too. I see them all the time, they ask me for help with settings.....
artsupreme wrote:
Exactly, the PROs (or top dogs) who are using them in the elements on a daily basis who need the ruggedness and fps are going to buy them no matter what it costs, they could give a shit about a 5D...and yes there are plenty who buy them for trophies too. I see them all the time, they ask me for help with settings.....
Actually, pros quite like 5D on field. A while ago, a saw a 30+ "best of 2011" picture gallery from a press agency (Reuters or like), with lots of pictures from hotspots around the world. 5D2 was most used (like 30% of photos). 7D was also there.
Having too many bodies in the Canon range can some times lead to strange comparisons where a more expensive model can be almost the same to a cheaper one (7D and 600D) in image quality but a little different in materials quality (metal instead of plastic body). I think a new range of smaller mirrorless Canon bodies would help clear the range of elcheapo models like the 1100D and give some room to have more decent models that would not go lower than the xxxD models. EF-S lenses would correspond to only to bodies (xxD and xxxD) and from then up there would be only FF bodies. That would mean no 7D or equivalent as it is suggested (and hoped for) in many of the posts above. With all the market developments and encroachment at the lower end from smaller mirrorless cameras it is time for Canon and Nikon to make DSLRs differentiated from the rest for the best.
snapsy wrote:
I disagree. Pro's don't buy pro bodies to have trophies, they buy them because FPS+buffer capacity+weather sealing are essential for their work. This is why Nikon can offer a D700 or D800 with all the pro features of a D3/D4 except FPS+buffer capacity and still sell the D3s/D4 at a premium.
This program shows a photographer working in an extreme environment.
He's a Nikon shooter -- looks like a D3.
Really some _remarkable_ locations here. Well worth viewing.
Jeff wrote:
I'm starting to think that the 7D MkII is going to go full frame; it never made sense to me that it wasn't from the outset.
From a marketing standpoint I think that would confuse the Canon users even more. At the moment people seem confused over the strategy Canon is following after their really odd 1dx announcement. Which subsequently they can't seem to produce on time.
artsupreme wrote:
+1 that is a very common misconception around here...
The 5DX wouldn't kill 1DX sales even if it was 9fps with the same AF....they are totally different markets and there are plenty of other features to differentiate the two lines. It would only help Canon by selling boat loads 5DX's - they make more on the lower end bodies. The 1DX buyers are going to buy a 1DX no matter how close the lower end model is. Same with luxury cars - top dogs are going to buy top of the line.
.
I follow quite a few professional (landscape) photographers. A lot of them use the 5D mark II. Some of them bough the pro 1dsMark III when it came out. Once the 5D mark II was out I have seen none that went with the pro model.
I have no clue about photojournalists and sports-photographers. Would you know the share of each in the sales of the "pro models"?
The difference is that the pro Model (1Ds MK III) was a studio camera for that use. Slow FPS slow ISO in main a pro body and best IQ at high pixels. Both was offered (even better) with the smaller, lighter 5D MK II, at the loss of top AF (what is not really often used in studio).
The 22MP 5D III up to ISO 25k - that would be mine.
But I guess the names would be choosen opposite. 5D X best IQ, 5D III best MP.
When the 1DX came out this is pretty much what I suggested would be the perfect Canon lineup. If you think of it from users' perspective:
1dx:
Pro class camera, don't care as much about MP, does a variety of work - probably more in sports, weddings and so on when more MP isn't important (and 18 is a lot anyway really...)
5d high MP:
Studio camera and landscape camera. Follows on from the success of the 5dii as the studio / landscape camera of choice. Doesn't need the bells and whistles of a 1 series camera as you're generally running at f8-f11 most of the time so focussing points and fps are less critical. Will spend a fair amount of it's time in controlled conditions ie. inside or outside where time is not of the essence. However, the focus points they they put in all have to all WORK.
5d low MP:
Lower end 1dx. For the aspiring (less well off) pro / generalist photographer who needs to be able to do studio work, but mostly who needs to shoot on location. Wedding photographers would flood to this camera.
I also thought that a high res 1dx might be a good idea, but I'm backing down from that. I'm just not sure it makes that much sense for those users.
I bought the 5dii since it was the best compromise for my studio work and my wedding work. It was the only camera which I felt did both as well as I wanted, although as we know the 5dii's outer focussing points have never been amazing and the centre one, while fine most of the time, does get a little jittery in very low light..
ViscaB wrote:
In a way the following poll https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1083747/7 loosely proves that Canon photographers want to see "a split of the line"
That's a really good point. Most want a low res 18-24mp or a 30+mp. There are a few inbetween who presumably want a compromise...
This program shows a photographer working in an extreme environment.
He's a Nikon shooter -- looks like a D3.
Really some _remarkable_ locations here. Well worth viewing.
Makes perfect sense to split the line.
A wedding photographer could then buy a 1DX as his main camera, and a 5DX (with the same sensor) as a backup. Same image processing required for both. 5DX should have pro AF, just fewer AF points.
Hi-res 5D3 would be for the landscapers where resolution os more important than high ISO.
I'd buy one of each.
We're kind of forgetting, though, that Canon now has a 'low-end' video market to cater to, in addition to the new high-end C-Series recently announced. Makes sense, then, that the 5Dx would be the low-MP (22), high-ISO camera for video, while the 5D MkIII goes to high-MP, low-ISO uses. I'm just not sure where that leaves a 7D MkII; only for (sports) backup duty?
It just seems to me if the 5D line splits, that leaves some real grey area for the next iteration of the 7D. I understand the market for an all-around, near pro-level backup body (I want one, the 7D wasn't it), but I personally don't prefer the APS-C format for that camera (APS-H would be my choice, whether the format is dead or not). And, unless Canon seriously beefs up both features and build of the 5D series, there is still a huge hole where the mythical 3D would fit quite nicely.
Jeff wrote:
I'm just not sure where that leaves a 7D MkII; only for (sports) backup duty?
I think there would easily still be a market for the ~$2000 well-spec'd crop body. There are so many people with EF-S lenses that are not going to want to go FF ($$$) and change their entire lens kit over ($$$$).
If I was a committed EF-S user, I'd be P.O.'d if 7D was turned into a FF rig. They have to have a good crop body answer. Heck, if the 7D2 ends up being awesome, I'd consider upgrading my 1D2n.
Just the thought of that makes me think - nah! ain't gonna happen - 1D2n I love you
I'm not sure, I'm not a pro but have a pre-order waiting, if the rumour pans out I would cancel the 1Dx in a heartbeat, I would get both models of 5D's instead, so I would be one of the people that won't buy the 1Dx, but they'll probably make the same amount of profit for the 2 cameras.
artsupreme wrote:
+1 that is a very common misconception around here...
The 5DX wouldn't kill 1DX sales even if it was 9fps with the same AF....they are totally different markets and there are plenty of other features to differentiate the two lines. It would only help Canon by selling boat loads 5DX's - they make more on the lower end bodies. The 1DX buyers are going to buy a 1DX no matter how close the lower end model is. Same with luxury cars - top dogs are going to buy top of the line.
How's this - I would happily buy (2) 5DIII's for 7K if I like the specs (been waiting for a long time), but I refuse to buy a 1DX at $6800.... So, Canon would actually gain sales from people like me by releasing a solid performer, otherwise I'll buy something else......Show more →
