adamdewilde wrote:
Marking garbage.. Would you rather Nikon say "Sony forced our hand, sorry guys" I sure as hell know Sony doesn't want Nikon saying that..
Marketing garbage? That link I posted in from 2010. There is no way in the world Sony forced Nikon to use XQD cards in the D4. That's just plain stupid to suggest. If anything, Nikon forced Sony's hand by choosing to use the new card format they jointly developed.
philipj wrote:
Feel free to disagree with me, but you don't have to insult my intelligence. If you honestly don't think there was some discussion about this between Nikon and Sony, you're the one who needs to get a Clue [sic].
Philip, you didn't say anything about there being "some discussion" between Nikon and Sony. You stated that it was obvious that the only reason XQD is in the D4 is so that Nikon can get a price break on the sensors they make. Here's the relevant statement for your reference and easy comparison:
philipj wrote:
It's not hard to see why XQD is a feature in the D4. I suspect it has everything to do with negotiating price that Nikon has to pay for custom sensors, and little else.
That statement is absurd, and ludicrous beyond repair. Period.
But you went further. You said:
philipj wrote:
Sony is a significantly larger company that Nikon, so it's hard to see how Nikon could pressure Sony into doing much of anything. Sony is making money by selling sensors to Nikon, and they're also obviously going to make money by being, for now, the soul [sic] source or XQD cards.
Nikon is a profitable company, which is amazing given what they've been through. And Sony has been losing money hand-over-fist for the last FOUR YEARS. You may find it "hard to see" how Nikon could pressure Sony into anything, but it's really quite simple: when one of your strategic customers asks you to move forward a little more quickly so they can generate more sales for you, you usually oblige them with thanks.
It's not that anyone is insulting your intelligence. You've stated viewpoints that are highly controversial (at best), and you're getting a strong reaction to those.
Rodolfo Paiz wrote:
It's in the D4 because the D4 is Nikon's flagship, and Nikon is making every effort to stay on the leading edge of technology. Simple as that.
adamdewilde wrote:
With the Olympics coming up, that's pure BS.. Nikon is taking a big risk on a new technology right out of the starting gate, and at a time when IF anything goes wrong with images, it'll be a big media shit storm for them.. And Nikon will be frantic trying to sort out XQD issues..
What "big risk on new technology" are you talking about? Memory is about as "commodity" as anything gets. The PCI Express (aka "PCIe") standard on which the card's communications are based has been in every PC sold during the last 5 or more years (I forget when PCIe came out, but it's been a while). And the plastic, pins, etc are hardly the stuff of innovation. The only thing that's new about XQD is that the PCIe interface is being brought into a camera.
adamdewilde wrote:
Oh, and nobody buying a D4 is going to ooohh and ahhh over XQD, they're going to want a camera that hits focus.. XQD is nice, but is it worth the potential risk?
For those of us who see the "potential risk" as being between slim and none, definitely yes. And of course we want a camera that hits focus. But we also want a camera with good technology elsewhere, like read/write speeds to the card, like larger buffer capacities and less time spent waiting for the buffer to clear. YOU may not care about XQD's vaunted speed improvements, and that's OK. But I, and others, certainly do care about them.
I think the XQD card is simply the fact that Nikon wanted to make an awesome camera that met the needs of it's professional shooters and their demand for a faster camera.
The D4 is a freaking speed demon and if anyone takes the time to read a lot of the articles Nikon puts out where they ask the engineers questions they'll see that Nikon cares about their photography and how to make it better for the end user.
The choice of XQD was easy they needed newer tech to keep up with the amazing dual core EXPEED3. What is the point of all this procesisng power and big buffer if the memory card is going to be the bottle neck. So who better to ask than Sony who makes memory cards as well. In fact their collaboration with Sandisk is more proof this wasn't a Sony bending Nikon's arm. I am sure there will be more brands that make XQD, CF's are EOL.
Can't wait until the D4S to have dual XQD. :drool:
this has turned into yet another "chicken little" event from individuals that really have no intention of purchasing this camera. i will go out fearlessly and shoot with mine using the XQD cards i have on order and if they fail everything is also on my trusty BU CF cards. NO FEAR HERE because i have product backup and support.
sjms wrote:
this has turned into yet another "chicken little" event from individuals that really have no intention of purchasing this camera. i will go out fearlessly and shoot with mine using the XQD cards i have on order and if they fail everything is also on my trusty BU CF cards. NO FEAR HERE because i have product backup and support.
I'll be using the XQD on mine also. This is a real "Deal Maker" for me.
sjms wrote:
yes the world is flat. don't go that way its possibly dangerous.
are you by any chance in the insurance game?
i live and work in a "risk heavy" environment everyday. but you know risk is manageable to a certain extent.
as to nikon being risk adverse? by the way there is a CF slot right next to it. there are 128GB CF cards. there is the ability to double down on your images using both slots. there will be wifi and hard wired setups there at the olympics too. there are so many potential failure points available w/o even thinking of this little XQD card . but in the end as with most "risk" that can't be covered there is the human factor and that is the biggest risk overall in any situation and that has been demonstrated time and time again.
i'm saying it again:
you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't...Show more →
Exactly my point, there's a CF slot right next to it. Why didn't Nikon use two XQD slots?? They're better, smaller, and more future proof... So why did they keep CF?
afm901 wrote:
Marketing garbage? That link I posted in from 2010. There is no way in the world Sony forced Nikon to use XQD cards in the D4. That's just plain stupid to suggest. If anything, Nikon forced Sony's hand by choosing to use the new card format they jointly developed.
Scott
How does Nikon benefit from "joint" producing a product? They're not making XQD cards!
They get to use the technology? So does everyone else right? So no benefit.
The only people who benefit are Sony who get to sell XQD..
its a simple answer for those willing to listen: its called transition. the ability to use the vast supply that many already have as we transition to the new format.
why does Canon have CF and SD as does the D800 now thats not a winning hand either in my opinion. but there are many that may be transitioning from lower end models to this their ultimate one allows its use and for those using CF again coming from the other direction. the D800 will grab more then the D4 will and they know it. thus the difference in production levels.
i myself have been using CF since my coolpix 900. but i know it is a finite technology as are all. SD just didn't have the juice to do it in. now its going to do itself in but more slowly.
Rodolfo Paiz wrote:
What "big risk on new technology" are you talking about? Memory is about as "commodity" as anything gets. The PCI Express (aka "PCIe") standard on which the card's communications are based has been in every PC sold during the last 5 or more years (I forget when PCIe came out, but it's been a while). And the plastic, pins, etc are hardly the stuff of innovation. The only thing that's new about XQD is that the PCIe interface is being brought into a camera.
For those of us who see the "potential risk" as being between slim and none, definitely yes. And of course we want a camera that hits focus. But we also want a camera with good technology elsewhere, like read/write speeds to the card, like larger buffer capacities and less time spent waiting for the buffer to clear. YOU may not care about XQD's vaunted speed improvements, and that's OK. But I, and others, certainly do care about them....Show more →
Do you not remember the trouble with Sandisc cards a little while back?
Most pros probably have a set of stable trouble free cards (I have 8 16GB problem free cards, and 2 32gb problem free cards).. XQD are new, forcing everyone to buy new.. What if the first, or second or third batch of cards are bad.. Not having been tested by the photographer much before use?
Sure no risk because we have CF backup, but if these new cards were Nikon's love child, then wouldn't they put two XQD slots inside the camera and scrap CF?
I was just jumping to someones defense because I had similar thoughts.. And you all took a really nasty approach to responding to him.
In the end, half the people on this post probably aren't even gonna buy a D4, I'm getting two, and personally I think, if Nikon loved the idea of XQD they should have put two slots in.
you don't see the world the same way as they or i do. i found i only need one and i'll borrow the other as needed.
i've had my conversation with the folks at nikon on more then one occasion in the past months.
The two different cards were my only complaint with the D800 and it would also be with the D4. But I am sure I will get used to having the two cards to deal with. I think it is just a little inconvenient.
Well, they could have 3-4 slots or maybe a combo slot for some cards, but that gets complicated. The other problem with two different types of media is that one format is likely to be faster than another.
I'm surprised that you don't see why. Its to provide a transitional path, but then, a transitional path would be considered as gray tones, where you see eveything in Black and White..Yes or No..Up or Down.
I think you know all this actually...but you really enjoy being a contrarian.
EB-1 wrote:
Well, they could have 3-4 slots or maybe a combo slot for some cards, but that gets complicated. The other problem with two different types of media is that one format is likely to be faster than another.
EBH
true if you didn't take in account with a reasonable buffer to handle the differences (reasonble ones that is) as you are going to put fast cards in there. and one of then is not going to be a red/blue sandisk. . this of course holds true for CF/SD combinations in Canon and these days Nikon too with the D300s and possibly more to come. i have a feeling they had the eyefi card in mind too. the support is just too perfect in the D7000 for it.
Read performance is excellent: 125 MB/s from the XQD card to the SSD
Write performance is mediocre: 40 MB/s from the SSD to the XQD card.
Reason could be in inefficiencies in the software driver for the ExpressCard. I assume, that the USB 3.0 reader will exhibit a more balanced performance. W'll see.
Usability for the Express Card reader could be better. Due to the slim size, there is no room for an eject button for the XQD card. If you wan't to extract the card, you have to fiddle with the fingernail from below to get the card out of the adapter. A broader adapter would have been better and more convenient.
BTW, the WT-5 wireless adapter is available as well. (Only missing thing in stores is the D4 ....)
because i have product backup and support. 
The other problem with two different types of media is that one format is likely to be faster than another.