Archive 2012 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique

mill4570
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p.4 #1 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique

P Alesse wrote:
The comment regarding the removal of that picture in the orginal thread was uncalled for, so I do apologize for that, but it is something you want to avoid as it winds up confusing subsequent posters. If you make improvements or changes to an original post, you should post the changes in a new post later in the thread. This acccomplishes two things... it doesn't confuse those that want to respond, and two... we can see the progression. Probably might be a good time to repost this since there are quite a few newbies after the holidays:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/775155/

I now understand about the computer freezing up during a mid-post though and sorry for the knee jerk reaction. The manner in which I responded was rude and "non-professional" and I preach professionalism and Isabellian etiquette so I do apologize. Hey, it was my birthday and I turned 45 and now I'm considered over the hill...

.

I do however, stand by my comments regarding what to charge and the perception of the industry though no matter how curt it comes off being. I actually have to curtail my passion for this because yeah, I can get pretty heated about it. I feel it's more important to be critical of that rather than the pictures themselves... in the long run, it will protect not only others, but yourself as well, when it comes time to charge for you work. Once you have established a baseline for your pricing scheme whether it be free or nearly free, it's going to be a tough sell from that same client base when you suddenly decide to double your prices.

@WCS... I'm not sure where or when I came off rude to you. I gave some honest opinions regarding "he Shoots, he Scores" post, but I don't think I was rude. If you think a comment like "does nothing for me" is condescending, then good luck if and when you ever become a member over at SS and are in the company of Liddy, Clark Brooks, Thomas Witte et al. They tell it like it is and they don't care how you feel. Being called a jerk by anyone of them is an honor IMO.

There was time 4-5 years ago where some respected members here were truly rude... to the point where newbies to the hobby gave up photography altogether after an up and down undressing of their photographs by these individuals.

Whether deemed appropriate or not, the undressing was by top pros in the business and although it was perceived as "rude and too hard"... if you were man enough to sort it all out, you realized that it was probably the best advice that anyone could have given to you by real photographers that have been in the trenches for years. I miss that part of FM the most. TheBigBad, NickyD, Carl Auer, Mark Rebilas... those guys and their advice of hard knocks MADE ME a photographer and I miss them.

I appreciate the comments of support from those that spoke on my behalf regarding the negative comments. I'm flattered and honored. Initially, I didn't know how to respond to WCS other than to say that I was hurt that a judgement could have been made based on what was said in such a small cross-section of time with little regard to the time spent in contributions over the last 7 years. My resume need not be addressed here. It was well illustrated in the sentiment of those that came to my defense and had my back on this. You are true friends.

In conclusion, I think everything that needed to be said has been said. I'd like to move on and get back to the thread at hand as this has veered way off topic. ...Show more →

Paul,

Very eloquent response, although you didn't say anything that people who have been around the forum didn't already know. As for your "passion", people who try to make a living with photography understand completely.

Richard K.

Feb 09, 2012 at 01:43 PM

P Alesse
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p.4 #2 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique

Scott... you can't look at it like $30.00/hr though. Yes, $30.00/hr is fine when working for an outside company. As a matter of fact, that's pretty much in the ballpark of my freelance rate when working for other photogs. But, here are the conditions where $30.00, in my opinion is not an acceptable rate:

1) My hourly freelance rate is based on volume of hours which must carry a minimum of six hours. Essentially, I'm not really charging an hourly rate, but a "day rate" that's based on an 8 hour day. If a freelancer wants me for just 1-5 hours... then that hourly rate is going to be more depending. The cost of driving to an event, prep time beforehand, etc... that all gets built into my costs based on an 8-10 hour day.

2) With my own photo business, $30.00/hr is also based on volume, but carries a whole new set of CODB expenses that I need not worry about when working for others. I have insurance costs, I have mobile phone costs, I have a company van used just for photography gigs. I have an answering service taking customer service calls, I have office expenses, I have basic expendable equipment costs, printing costs, marketing costs, webhosting fees, credit card merchant terminal costs. This all cuts into that hourly rate. This is the part of the business that newbies don't understand. It's not simply take pictures and burn a CD and collect 30 bucks.

That being said though... Income generated by CD sales at $30/person can work on a high volume level. If I shoot an event with 5000 competitors and can sell half of them on a CD for $30.00, then by all means... that's worth it. Many here are existing under that model. But what you are doing is not that model. That's a private shoot, not a big event shoot and $30.00 to shoot an athlete, process those photos, burn to a CD, and deliver that product winds up in essence being a net to you for a hell of a lot less than $30.00. If I had ten of those per day though... the expenses and time involved gets absorbed in the volume of sales.

Hope this somewhat makes sense.

Feb 09, 2012 at 02:06 PM

Jefferson
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p.4 #3 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique

Jefferson

Feb 09, 2012 at 02:36 PM

zSCOTTz
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p.4 #4 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique

Paul, I understand all of that, but Im not looking to start up a big buisness venture like that. My 30.00 dollar a CD rate has bagged me $300.00 for a 5 hour day next weekend, as all the parents on my neices team want pictures like I took of my niece. I told my brother about the quality of the product and the mistakes I made on them as pointed out on this forum, to let them know what I can do. It didnt matter to any of the parents after he told them, he said they saw the pictures I printed out on my home piece of crap printer, and loved them, and asked if I could do it for them. Im drooling over making that for five hours for something I love to do. Nobody in this area does this, so Im seeing a huge oppurtunity for me here, or maybe I just got lucky the first time. I love all the advice on here, the only thing that bothers me if at all is the, our industry is getting ruined. Well thats true, but ask yourself, can you stop it? Probably not, it sucks yes, but its going on all over the place in alot of industrys. I see it all the time here, I work in a plant that could shut down next year. We have had 3 out of the 6 siding plants close in the last 4 years. I could be pissed and bitter and worry about it, but Im not going too. Lifes too short, if it happens it happens. I cant stop it. I think if your truly good at what you do, and dont worry about all the up and comers, selling at what their selling for, concentrate on what you do best, change, adapt, it wont matter what they charge, you will be just fine. Its good to worry about the other guys, but they too have to step up, adapt, learn to change or they will be swallowed up just like wallmart did with the mom and pop corner stores. Sucks that it happened, some good people lost their buisness's, but your not gonna stop it. I think my view on life is what helps me get buy today, positive, take it a day at a time. And Paul, you do some great work, I think your gonna be fine. Little old Scott is going to take anything from you personally, but I really do appreciate your help, and if I screw myself over with my pricing later on, Im cool with it, wasnt meant to be, the suns still shining, and I might be sleeping on a bench but Ill have some warm rays on my face

Feb 09, 2012 at 02:38 PM

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