fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Sports Corner Rules
Sports Corner Resource
  

FM Forums | Sports Corner | Join Upload & Sell

1       2              4       end
  

Archive 2012 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique

  
 
zSCOTTz
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #1 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


gschlact wrote:
Some additional comments to add for the OP.
I agree that the photos are somewhat soft. But realize I am not saying OOF (out of focus). Several items mentioned above could contribute to the softness- high cropping, poor downsampling, noise/or it's reduction (NR), shutter speed where 1/300 can work, but 1/640 is sharper.

A couple of things not mentioned is lens quality (I can't see exit from this iPad). Was it L glass, did you turn IS off? Another important thing not yet mentioned is shooting technique. Make sure you are not rushing the shutter press- make sure you continue to
...Show more
I have L glass, I was using the 70-200 2.8, I have the one that dosent have IS, the older cheaper version. I had my ISO low, I am going to turn it up next game I shoot, and not worry about the noise as much, and work on it in post processing after. Thanks for the tips, they are appreciated.



Feb 07, 2012 at 07:30 PM
John Patrick
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #2 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


Scott, remember you can fix noise in post. You can even (kinda) fix exposure in post. It's a right pain to fix motion blur in post, so much so I even might claim you can't.

John



Feb 07, 2012 at 07:48 PM
zSCOTTz
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #3 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


John Patrick wrote:
Scott, remember you can fix noise in post. You can even (kinda) fix exposure in post. It's a right pain to fix motion blur in post, so much so I even might claim you can't.

John

Yeah, I have been trying to fix it the wrong way in post, Ive been underexposing, and trying to lighten the exposure in lightroom 3, and after some helpful hints on this forum, I realize I should raise the ISO, and go the other way. Im going to try it out Friday night in a high school gym during a game. Thanks for the help. Ill see what I get and post some pics afterwards. I love the bashing/hazing ritual I am going through on here with this thread, didnt mean to create such a s-storm lol. Still its been really helpful to me as I am new, and just learning the camera.



Feb 07, 2012 at 08:16 PM
Grantland
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #4 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


i get mixed emotions as i read all this. i agree and disagree. no doubt i get a bit confused/conflicted.

i do both, some stuff for hire and some stuff for free. i know my motives and I would not intentionally want to hurt the pros. however, when i do stuff for free i can see it affects the pro market. i want to help/respect the pros and i want to help families and friends i know and love in our community. and i want to build my photo business and the non-profit ministry i run with my non-traditional approach.

anyhow, all the full time pros deserve a BIG thank you for the time and effort they give everyone on this forum.

grant




Feb 07, 2012 at 10:16 PM
WestCoastSnapp
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #5 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


I have to add my 2c worth........

I don't remember when signing up for FM.com that this was the domian of professionals only. I personally have found the forum a great resource for learning. Most here are only too willing to give critique, guidance and suggestions.

I have to say though I have noticed" P Alesse" giving negative comments more than most. Or just plain being rude and unwilling to help a person up when they need it most.

We all had to start somewhere?

If you cant offer reasonable critique and suggest ways to help improve things that need it then keep your sanctimonious comments and bluster to yourself.

Richard Hyde.
Vancouver Island



Feb 07, 2012 at 10:51 PM
P Alesse
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #6 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


WestCoastSnapp wrote:
I have to say though I have noticed" P Alesse" giving negative comments more than most. Or just plain being rude and unwilling to help a person up when they need it most.



I'm really sorry you feel that way.



Feb 07, 2012 at 11:28 PM
Scott Sewell
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #7 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


WestCoastSnapp wrote:
I have to say though I have noticed" P Alesse" giving negative comments more than most. Or just plain being rude and unwilling to help a person up when they need it most.




Oh my. Unbelievable. SMH




Feb 08, 2012 at 12:46 AM
Woody28
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #8 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


Westcoast,

You must be delusional. I don't post as much as I once did but I have been a member here for almost ten years . While we have many, many good folks here at FM offering help ... NOBODY, helps as much as Paul, absolutely NOBODY. If you or anyone else can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

Not meaning to hijak this thread but this comment could not go on unanswered.

Woody



Feb 08, 2012 at 01:45 AM
lhryshko
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #9 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


Westcoast,

I think you are on an island here. I don't believe you will find many members of the Sports Forum who share your view. Paul may occasionally be very curt or brusque in his responses but he is consistently one of the most valuable and insightful contributors towards everyone on this board. His own photographic standards are extemely high, as evident from all his postings, and I can only assume that this high standard is expressed when critiquing the work of others. It's not my place to tell you what to think or do but............



Feb 08, 2012 at 02:03 AM
zSCOTTz
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #10 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


I am new at this, and yes I have a another job. Im not a lawyer or a doctor, just a factory worker, who works 12 hour shifts in a factory that is physically demanding. I make less than 50,000 a year, so Im not some rich person just buying toys to go out and have fun with. I love photography, I love sports. I have received some great advice on this board. Yes I have received some attitude on this thread, I take it all in, dosent bother me, I can even use that to learn. One thing I do know though, you can give me heat all you want, it wont stop me from learning this trade and being a sports photographer, nothings going to intimidate me, I'm not afraid to make mistakes and post them for all to see. One day I will be good with, or without help, its just alot easier with the help. I know when I am there and I get it, I will help any begginer, in person, or on forums. So just remember, when I do receive harsh critiques and some attitude, you still are helping me whether you like it or not.


Feb 08, 2012 at 07:49 AM
mill4570
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #11 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


Scott,

You are absolutely welcome on this forum. In reading back over the entire post, I don't see where anyone really took you to the woodshed, so practice, follow the posting rules, and learn from the C&C. This board will save you many hours on your learning curve, and many dollars as you developement your business model.

Good Luck,
Richard K.



Feb 08, 2012 at 10:22 AM
Grantland
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #12 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


WestCoastSnapp wrote:
I have to say though I have noticed" P Alesse" giving negative comments more than most. Or just plain being rude and unwilling to help a person up when they need it most.


no chance! you are wrong!

paul is one of the best assets to fm. when paul first critiqued some of my stuff he committed that the pictures were not very good. hurt my pride but i wanted honest feedback. his being forthright is what i like best about paul. he and a few others are what helped me get to a new level of sports photography. i still have a ways to go but am very very grateful to the pros who take the time to help the trade.

some people are critical and they a$$es. paul is critical but it is never personal.

grant




Feb 08, 2012 at 06:30 PM
WestCoastSnapp
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #13 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


One thing I most certainly did not do was knock or slight any of "P Alesse's" work. I happen to have liked the images I have seen of his work and probably have added positive remarks to his work as I do to any ones work that tickles my fancy.

I gave good comments recently to a shooters images of basketball taken with a 200 1.4/1.8. I personally can not stand basketball, LaX or American Football. I even find the images egregious to look at cos i don't get or like the sports in the slightest.......But i give credit where credit is due.

I have had negative comments from "P Alesse" in the past too but have taken from it the faults in my work and worked harder to make things better next attempt.

His comments in this posting....some thing like......"and you removed an image, that's a NO NO for me and I'm done with this thread" seemed very condescending to me.

Sure you can critique and even chastise but there is a way to do that correctly and the comments earlier in this thread rubbed me the wrong way when I read them.

Funny thing is I'm now the villain for speaking my mind. But whatever I have broad shoulders. I was polite, to the point and not condescending. Hell I cant like everyone?

I'll be posing an image for critique here in the sports forum this evening so you lot can reap your revenge on me for making such wild and hurtful remarks.

As long as we are debating and not calling each other C**k Su**e*s! there is hope for humanity?

RH, Vancouver Island.



Feb 08, 2012 at 11:23 PM
BioBanker
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #14 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


A couple things to keep in mind that my amateur eyes spot are:

Perspective. I checked out your website (congratulations on taking that step!) and I feel that the location you shot from for many of the shots was less than ideal. Getting pictures of faces I think is key, and without an optimal location, getting those are tough. I see a lot of photos of backs and of faces turned away. I try my best to get faces myself. Often at sporting events optimal shooting locations are reserved for those with full access (at local sports events even!).

Cutting off of body parts/bats, etc... Im my amateur mind, some shots can get away with this, but not many. I like to see the full body of the subject and of those who are directly involved in the action. Cutting off feet or a hand, even if peripheral to the shot, is distracting to me. Same thing for equipment. To me, you can nail the shot in every other way, but if the tip of the bat is off the frame, the photo suffers a lot.

All just my thoughts! I can learn a lot from your initiative!



Feb 09, 2012 at 09:07 AM
zSCOTTz
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #15 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


Thanks for the input Bio, thanks for checking out my webiste. For now, those are all the pictures I have, alot of the youth pictures, I was there because my daughter is a cheerleader, and Im just taking pics, playing with the lens learning. I did all that before I came to these forums, I have only had a camera for a little over a year, and I havent shot sports that much with it yet. I didnt know anything about shooting position or backs to the camera yet, or didnt really think about it that much, its hard to do when all your friends tell ya how great you are, another reason I'm here, for the feedback so I can learn. I now realize all this, and Im going to shoot from the floor Friday night, keep people facing me, work on all that stuff and post them for review and critiques on here to see if I'm progressing. I can tell you, I have learned tons of stuff about my camera settings and the little things you were speaking of just reading my thread, and other threads on here, it is invaluable to me, love the critiques on mine, and other threads. Now I have to see if I can apply everything I learned into my photography. It wont happen in a day or a month, its gonna take time, I just want to make sure I get better little by little.


Feb 09, 2012 at 10:51 AM
zSCOTTz
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #16 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


I want to adress the Paul thing from my point of view and things that were said in this thread. Myself personally it dosent bother me on how he approached my thread with some of his comments as I have thick skin. But I can tell you why I see people responding to his comments. Its the way he came off sometimes, I felt its was with some attitude, like whatever, you removed that pic im outta here. He responded to that while I was still reworking my pictures to make them smaller, I wasnt finished yet when he wrote that, computer froze up, and I had comments on my thread before I was done with what I was doing. The other, when he saw my pricing, and to come after me about acting professional. Im new, to all this, in my area, we dont have any action sports photography, just T and I, and only one place does it, and I work with these people who print for me. I asked them what they thought about me doing this, and they are all for it, I told them the price I thought about charging, and they said its a good place to start, and they are supporting me and encouraging me. Like I said, I'm new Im getting all the information I can, it just seems I seen alot about people like me ruining the industry and all that, but I dont think people like us ruined the industry. Thats tecnology making things easier for people in all facets of life, not just photography. Things are changing everywhere, and its not gonna stop, in all levels of jobs and work. Ask a mailman how he feels about email. I do however think, when someone else that is new reads this, and maybe dosent have as thick as skin as me, or my attitutude where I can just let stuff roll off and it dosent bother me, it might discourage them from posting pics on here, trying to learn, and they might just quit photography all together. It is intimidating to some people to see a professional come off like that when I made some mistakes. Maybe in the future, try to be more positive when critiquing, this board is for everyone whether they are doing it for a hobby, or want to maybe start up a business and see where it goes. Like I said, myself I'm ok with it, beacuse I'm gonna learn one way or another, but you might be discourging someone else who is reading this and wants to get started also. On a positive note, this is a great forum, best I have seen so far, and Ive read alot of them.


Feb 09, 2012 at 11:08 AM
zSCOTTz
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #17 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


Oh yeah, on a lighter note, when I post my new set of pics after Fridays basketball game, I hope I can approach my personal record of veiws on this thread of 2,000 and have more than 50 plus posts. Its gonna be hard, but one can only hope lol


Feb 09, 2012 at 11:14 AM
Trevorma
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #18 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


Look for each and every person who has a day job and photographs on the side, how would you feel if someone came to your company and said they would do your job for FAR less or even FREE??

Someone walks in to the post office and says they will deliver mail for free, is the postal carrier who wants to get PAID to do that job going to be happy

I am a Civil Engineer and would be PISSED if someone walk in to my office and told my boss they were going to do my job for free.... or $5 an hour.....

You would probably have a bit of an attitude about it right

I am not going to defend any one person here but think about that side of it..... If you purchased a DSLR to take pictures of your kid fine, but the minute you start charging money, ANY amount of money it has an effect on the business side of Photography, a business that MANY people are making their living at.




Feb 09, 2012 at 11:27 AM
P Alesse
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #19 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


The comment regarding the removal of that picture in the orginal thread was uncalled for, so I do apologize for that, but it is something you want to avoid as it winds up confusing subsequent posters. If you make improvements or changes to an original post, you should post the changes in a new post later in the thread. This acccomplishes two things... it doesn't confuse those that want to respond, and two... we can see the progression. Probably might be a good time to repost this since there are quite a few newbies after the holidays:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/775155/

I now understand about the computer freezing up during a mid-post though and sorry for the knee jerk reaction. The manner in which I responded was rude and "non-professional" and I preach professionalism and Isabellian etiquette so I do apologize. Hey, it was my birthday and I turned 45 and now I'm considered over the hill....

I do however, stand by my comments regarding what to charge and the perception of the industry though no matter how curt it comes off being. I actually have to curtail my passion for this because yeah, I can get pretty heated about it. I feel it's more important to be critical of that rather than the pictures themselves... in the long run, it will protect not only others, but yourself as well, when it comes time to charge for you work. Once you have established a baseline for your pricing scheme whether it be free or nearly free, it's going to be a tough sell from that same client base when you suddenly decide to double your prices.

@WCS... I'm not sure where or when I came off rude to you. I gave some honest opinions regarding "he Shoots, he Scores" post, but I don't think I was rude. If you think a comment like "does nothing for me" is condescending, then good luck if and when you ever become a member over at SS and are in the company of Liddy, Clark Brooks, Thomas Witte et al. They tell it like it is and they don't care how you feel. Being called a jerk by anyone of them is an honor IMO.

There was time 4-5 years ago where some respected members here were truly rude... to the point where newbies to the hobby gave up photography altogether after an up and down undressing of their photographs by these individuals.

Whether deemed appropriate or not, the undressing was by top pros in the business and although it was perceived as "rude and too hard"... if you were man enough to sort it all out, you realized that it was probably the best advice that anyone could have given to you by real photographers that have been in the trenches for years. I miss that part of FM the most. TheBigBad, NickyD, Carl Auer, Mark Rebilas... those guys and their advice of hard knocks MADE ME a photographer and I miss them.

I appreciate the comments of support from those that spoke on my behalf regarding the negative comments. I'm flattered and honored. Initially, I didn't know how to respond to WCS other than to say that I was hurt that a judgement could have been made based on what was said in such a small cross-section of time with little regard to the time spent in contributions over the last 7 years. My resume need not be addressed here. It was well illustrated in the sentiment of those that came to my defense and had my back on this. You are true friends.

In conclusion, I think everything that needed to be said has been said. I'd like to move on and get back to the thread at hand as this has veered way off topic.

Edited on Feb 09, 2012 at 12:02 PM · View previous versions



Feb 09, 2012 at 11:56 AM
zSCOTTz
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #20 · New Sports Photographer needs Critique


Trevorma wrote:
Look for each and every person who has a day job and photographs on the side, how would you feel if someone came to your company and said they would do your job for FAR less or even FREE??

Someone walks in to the post office and says they will deliver mail for free, is the postal carrier who wants to get PAID to do that job going to be happy

I am a Civil Engineer and would be PISSED if someone walk in to my office and told my boss they were going to do my job for free.... or $5
...Show more
Trever, I work in a vinyl siding factory, last year they laid off the engineers after they wouldnt take a pay cut, gave them their severance and off they sent them. Eight months later they hired four more engineers fresh out of college for a cheaper hourly wage. Does it suck, yep, but its happening everywhere. March of this year, another siding plant in Missouri certainteed owns, they shut down, they are done. Is the product they were producing gone? Nope, its coming to my plant in Michigan, we make less of an hourly wage out in production than they did at the Joplin plant. Just the way of the world right now. I asked people in my shop about what I charged for taking pictures for the $30.00 for a CD. I said would you hire me, or any other photographer to take picutres of your son for the one game for 150.00 dollars for the two hours we would be there for images on a CD? Reply was, why? Your not taking senior pics, its just a game, and I have a nice P&S camera I can take pics myself for that kind of money, but for 30.00, to get the better picture, they would pay that. I love taking pics of sports, and for about an hours worth of work, I dont think 30.00 an hour is that bad. I dont spend much time in Post with them, about 20 mins. Pawn stars says its best, your work or item is only worth, what people are going to pay for it. And due to technology making everything easier and camera being as cheap as they are, people dont need professionals as much anymore like they did when it was just film. New photographers arent ruining your buisness, technology is, its evening the playing field.



Feb 09, 2012 at 11:57 AM
1       2              4       end




FM Forums | Sports Corner | Join Upload & Sell

1       2              4       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account