Those polls might be EOSfun to some, but every marketeer knows that there is a significant gap between what people say they would like and what they really want and spend their money on. Canon knows this like no other company. The best selling cameras have also been the cameras that got the most critique. The XXd XXXD and XXXXd series are selling in amounts of a multiplier of the Xd series. From these the 5D series has always been a better selling camera than those of the competition, be it Nikon, Sony, Pentax, you name it, even though nobody seemed to like the AF, the lack of weather sealing, ergonomics, the speed, high ISO performance/banding, etc. It still was the camera with the best overall image quality in the enthusiast 'affordable' class. I also read that in Timbop comment, and think that is illustrative for how many photographers look at the 5D. It's not perfect, but it's giving incredible bang for the buck for someone who is photographer with high demanding quality standards of the image quality. The truth is Canon got it right with their specs and market segmentation, better than the competition. So far..... The landscape is gonna change ..... but it's coming from a different corner most are expecting it to come from....Show more →
The truth is people didn't have a choice they bought what was given and truth was that canon probably have slammed down competitors had they been more aggressive and from what I've heard a ton of 5D2 sales were to video people and not stills shooters and that had it not been for the video people it wouldn't have been a third the success it was.
They did what they could just get away with while building ever less feelings of deep brand loyalty and letting the competition stay right there with them and remain a heavy a threat to market share but more importantly for them how will they slide by on simply offering video or a ton more MP when everyone else has caught up in those regards now? What they slid by with before may not let them slide by as well again.
And look at Atari and CBM their management kept wanting to milk things just a few more years while engineers were pushing them to introduce this or that and where are they now?
The truth also is that sidelines used to be white now they are black and white and that if you went to PJ programs at universities in mid 2004-2008 you'd see practically everyone kid shooting Canon, the last couple years it's a total mix of Nikon and Canon again.
I mean sliding by can work but it can also mean skipping chances to whoppingly take over market sure and can sometimes eventually lead to less $ coming in the long, long term.
Lars Johnsson wrote:
I can't see why you have a problem? If the AF isn't good enough for you, then Canon have many other bodies with better AF
Yes either giant bricks at huge premium and APS-H or FF and slow, no fast compact FF, no fast FF at all and for APS-C the 7D sort of has much better AF than the 5D2 and yet I can't help but actually trust the center point more on my 5D2 than on my 7D. Sometimes the 7D does great for sports and sometimes under some conditions it falls miles behind 1 series and occasionally even behind 5D2.
Just another note: some people really wonder if that is a grip underneath the camera or wether it's an integral part of the body. It is a grip. Canon wouldn't fool us with a dummy camera that has a fake grip and wheel to mount it would they? It is a new grip what you see there. I would never disclose news still under embargo , I just comment the picture of that poor man on the game drive in Kenya who has become game himself. Isn't that EOSfunny
cmm1398 wrote:
The whole thought process of keeping patents "in the pocket" has time and again proved to be fatal for many companies. Kodak for one.
I suppose it is a financial / balance sheet move so they can keep these "innovations" on the books as an asset.
A true market innovation would be to throw it all out on the table, revoloutionize the industry and put CASH on the balance sheet instead of innovations that someone might beat you to the punch at because of a stalled research and hold approach.
Apple is holding 96 billion in cash because they innovate and push to market. I'm not an apple fan boy but their stock and products sell like crazy and their fan loyalty is second to none.
As much as I love Canon, I think their "market approach" is quite flawed....Show more →
+100
(and I too am no Apple fan, but at least they are not afraid to put out there what they can and look, no publicly held company other than Exxon, I believe, is worth more. Canon had so much more advanced tech than Nikon they could've put a beast 5D2 even earlier than than the 5D and made Nikon look silly, Nikon was in a still dangerous, vulnerable position, granted even more sales are at the lower end, but had they gotten 7D out sooner, rather than reacted and feared internal market damage, popped MFA into 40D, video into 50D, etc. I bet Nikon has a rather small share now, although the 1D3 AF mess may have let them still increase a bit)
Lars Johnsson wrote:
We heard exactly the same thing when the 5D was replaced with the 5DII. And the new camera was a great succes and Canon sold so many......ans still do So I guess it was good and people liked it.
Every new body that is released have the same talk here. People want it to be 95% of the most expensive 1Ds (today 1Dx) but they only like to pay 30% of it.
What about Nikon?
What even about old Canon stuff like EOS 3?
Even if you want to pay $8000 for a FF body what if you don't want a sluggish performing brick? If you are not pure/action wildlife then APS-H is a bit awkward fit to many popular lenses.
1Ds sells like 5 copies, what are they protecting anyway?
1D3+5D2 which duplicate many expensive parts cost less than 1Ds3 did
5D2+EOS 3 cost way less than 1Ds3 did and you even have an expensive high speed film drive in the mix
anyway we are not saying to be silly about it, but they have been silly in the opposite direction, if anything
and a 6fps camera should be no threat to a 12fps camera since true action pros really do not want less than 8fps, that alone should be enough to keep a solid chunk or market segmentation, plus a 12fps mirror/shutter actually does cost a lot more than a 6fps box, there is no need to not use dual digic in the past or digic 5+ now and get above 4fps though or to put much better AF
Lars Johnsson wrote:
So why have the 5D and 5DII been such incredible best sellers in FF ? If most people understand how unreliable/inaccurate they are?
Nikon should have at least 90% of the buyers when they are so much better.........
1. it is a pain to shift systems, people don't give up en mass quite that easily and quickly (and canon knows this since it is one of their most popular user survey questions)
2. nikon had lacked stuff like 70-200 f/4 lenses and truly top quality 70-300L lenses and a few others (canon still has some parts of these advantages but not as many as just a few years ago)
3. nikon super tele used to cost way more, one could maybe enter into 300 2.8 IS at $3700 as an amateur but at $5000+ from Nikon not nearly so much (canon no longer has this advantage)
4. it did have a ton more MP and this did matter to many (this will either be a wash or with canon way behind now)
5. it did have video and this did matter to even many stills shooters (this may be a wash now)
6. some claim sales figures show that a rather large percent of 5D2 were bought largely as video cams and not by their old stills users
7. if the center point was also as bad as the outer points then it might have fared worse for stills sales
anyway i should shut up since at this point it is clear decisions have been made, what we get we will get, we will see if whining and ranting all over forums has made any difference or not soon....
Lars Johnsson wrote:
Yes it would be great with a new 5D3 that was 30+ MP. Pro AF, dual card slots and so on. And it should cost 1/3 of the 1Dx..........But we all know that will not happen
oddly enough, a thread with fun information that ALL of us should be happy about has turned into the same old crap. Somehow the concept that products have to appeal to a wide audience to be commercially successful gets lost on a weekly basis here.
Those of us old enough to remember, the 1d3 focusing fiasco was going on as the 5d2 was being finalized. At the time, the general speculation was that a newer AF was intended for the 5d2, but they either didn't want more problems or resources got retasked. The 5d2 reusing exactly the same AF as the classic marked the first time that had happened since the 30d - which was received just as poorly. In fact, they had put the same AF in the rebel at about the same time the 5d2 was being finalized - so obviously something more went on then we know.
The cost of a bare-bones wifi + GPS chip is basically negligible. Wi-fi would be nice, but GPS would be very, very useful (or at least fun) for many, many consumers (and pros).
I don't want to have to buy a grip (I like my 5Dmk2 gripless.... hell, I wish it was smaller/lighter), and shell out 1/4 the camera price, so that GPS gets integrated in metadata. And I'd prefer not to have to carry an extra logger (which I do), requiring me to charge another battery, not to mention sync photos to the track. GPS would be useful for every assignment I take-- and fun for every photo I take on my personal time. ...Show more →
Tim has made a very good point.
Imagine if Canon had put a new AF in the 5D that proved to be fiasco like the 1D3. What then? The 2 new top cameras from Canon with poor AF ? Now that would be something that would hurt them hard. I believe they played it safe and got away with it. The 5D2 sold really really well and still does. It is a great camera.
Now with 1D4 AF proving to be good, 1DX on the merge of appearance and 7D AF a very good success ...they have everything to put out a beast of a 5D3 or 3D or 5DX, whatever you want to call it , it is the 5D2 successor : a compact FF.
For me....i just want an even better sensor with a just as good centre point
safcraft wrote:
Tim has made a very good point.
Imagine if Canon had put a new AF in the 5D that proved to be fiasco like the 1D3. What then? The 2 new top cameras from Canon with poor AF ? Now that would be something that would hurt them hard. I believe they played it safe and got away with it. The 5D2 sold really really well and still does. It is a great camera.
Now with 1D4 AF proving to be good, 1DX on the merge of appearance and 7D AF a very good success ...they have everything to put out a beast of a 5D3 or 3D or 5DX, whatever you want to call it , it is the 5D2 successor : a compact FF.
For me....i just want an even better sensor with a just as good centre point ...Show more →
Seems like they just could have delayed the release of the 5D2 until they got the bugs worked out. I'm not buying that excuse.
safcraft wrote:
Tim has made a very good point.
Imagine if Canon had put a new AF in the 5D that proved to be fiasco like the 1D3. What then? The 2 new top cameras from Canon with poor AF ? Now that would be something that would hurt them hard. I believe they played it safe and got away with it. The 5D2 sold really really well and still does. It is a great camera.
Why not dump the 1D2 AF into it then? (of course then that embarrasses the 1D3 though in terms of talk at least....)
anyway I don't want to bash down the 5D2 since it was certainly very nice
AquaTech says:
"7.5fps and 22MP. Info direct from canon and that is as good as the rumors get for us. Some big changes to the 5D overall. Should be a fantastic new camera." (see their Facebook page)
1. why would a major, serious company like AquaTech make things up or lie?
and yet
2. why would Canon tell them that info and, if they did, why not keep it under NDA? (more planned leaks)
If it is 22MP and 7.5fps, that certainly does sound pretty impressive to say the least. Faster than I would have expected, if true.
No, Canon, I have no experience but I'm a big fan of cameras. I like them, I use them, I have a few. I keep them in a box on top of my refrigerator. I'd like to put more in that box. That's where you come in.
...looking forward to the price drop of the 5DmkII once this puppy gets released!
skibum5 wrote:
AquaTech says:
"7.5fps and 22MP. Info direct from canon and that is as good as the rumors get for us. Some big changes to the 5D overall. Should be a fantastic new camera." (see their Facebook page)
1. why would a major, serious company like AquaTech make things up or lie?
and yet
2. why would Canon tell them that info and, if they did, why not keep it under NDA? (more planned leaks)
If it is 22MP and 7.5fps, that certainly does sound pretty impressive to say the least. Faster than I would have expected, if true.
They are right down here in OC (I own a aquatech) and work with Canon so I wouldn't be surprised if they might have gotten some good info...but nothing's for sure until it's official.
Or they are just trying to draw traffic to their page...
skibum5 wrote:
AquaTech says:
"7.5fps and 22MP. Info direct from canon and that is as good as the rumors get for us. Some big changes to the 5D overall. Should be a fantastic new camera." (see their Facebook page)
1. why would a major, serious company like AquaTech make things up or lie?
and yet
2. why would Canon tell them that info and, if they did, why not keep it under NDA? (more planned leaks)
If it is 22MP and 7.5fps, that certainly does sound pretty impressive to say the least. Faster than I would have expected, if true.
of course making 22MP when you already developed an 18MP sensor seems odd, although maybe they feared marketing impact of dropping down, still.... and 7.5fps does seem faster than expected.... but why would Aquatech every lie?
hmmm.... Ashton Kutcher works for Nikon no? Maybe he has brought Punk'd back to life and this will be the first new episode.
Maybe it will have this crazy fast fps and some really souped up AF and video and only lose to D800 on MP and since 22MP really is a pretty decent number, 7.5fps gripless, top AF, 22MP might beat 36MP, top and yet not as good AF, 4fps gripless.
artsupreme wrote:
They are right down here in OC (I own a aquatech) and work with Canon so I wouldn't be surprised if they might have gotten some good info...but nothing's for sure until it's official.
Or they are just trying to draw traffic to their page...
Or got Punk'd by Nikon lover (or at least employee of sorts) Ashton
It is a new grip what you see there. I would never disclose news still under embargo 
, I just comment the picture of that poor man on the game drive in Kenya who has become game himself. Isn't that EOSfunny 
So I guess it was good and people liked it.
)