eosfun wrote:
You are still too much thinking in photo related manufacturers. Think Samsung fun, or Apple fun, HTC fun, or one of the Chinese camera manufacturers if they decide to bring their own designs instead of assembling eventually after they buy a well reputed brand. If you think of camera manufacturers think of Cosina, Sigma, (new) Polaroid, etc. Or Kodak under new ownership and management. When one of these manufacturers decides the time has come to implement totally different technology than what the photomanufacturers bring to us now. What electronics giants will add is integral media and communications modules in one piece of gear. And they do recognize the (latent) market for social media related cameratechnology. The outsiders in the photomarket like Cosina and Sigma may seek their growth opportunities by a new integration philosophy of their current business of photographic components. This could also be a new way for 'classic' media companies like Kodak or Polaroid who recognize that the new "film" is Internet bits.
The lack of a vision on integration from current camera manufacturers is the threat for EOSfun, and other kinds of photofun. But who cares if one of those other companies will lead us to the new level of "multimediafun" ...Show more →
Apple buys Lytro, and creates a new phone/camera with infinite focus that can connect to the internet wirelessly. It instantly uploads to the cloud instead of saving to SD/CF cards (no danger in losing images) and updates your FB at the same time while automatically checking in your location. Post processing is done through Instagram so all you have to do is take photos without ever bothering to go to your computer. Just delete the images you don't like, or hire SIRI-II (now with Photo Assistant Mode) which will check your images and mark for deletion those that have bad composition/color/levels.
I myself was also actually thinking--in camera manufacturers--that Fuji might be coming up with their new CMOS sensor technology and challenge the IQ and DR of Canon's field.
Interesting thoughts! But maybe the solution for the very conservative EOSsan is just to enable the camera to communicate easily with your Apple fun / Android fun phone via bluetooth and an App?
Right that's exactly what one would expect from Canon, Nikon and others. Bluetooth isn't enough bandwidth, but some higher speed communications is exactly what would give what many consumers want. The problem however is that current manufacturers think camera-centric and want their tool to be the hub or medium for images and not just be a device for a smartphone or tablet. While the electronics manufacturers just integrate imaging (still and video) into their device with the greatest ease and start to improve image quality and features in giant leaps every new generation of updates. Sooner or later this will arrive to a quality level that is enough for the mainstream Rebel shooter and then a multi million market of D-SLR users disappears and will be reduced to a niche for enthusiasts who are willing to pay a premium for their better quality "classic DSLR" camera. But the revenues of Rebel profits won't be there to co-fund R&D for next generations of EOSfun. This may sound like a long term vision, but I am afraid this is going to happen faster than a few boardroom members of the photo corporates like. "What is this mr EOSfun talking about, we are still THE Imaging company isn't it"
Sorry, this seems to be too much off the topic. But actually this is what surprised me about this new gradual upgrade. It's still a bit more of the same, while it is obvious that Canon needs bigger steps in their upgrade paths and more innovation in their current product line.
It's clear to me looking at your pbase/flicker site you shoot very leisurely photos.
It's clear to me you have no deadline, timeline, or demand from a client, publisher who needs it in focus the on the first attempt.
Please refrain telling everyone else who shoots with 5D MK II's that we need to get an $8000 four year old camera in order to get better AF.
According CR, 22 MP corresponds exactly to a 3×3 oversampling of the final video resolution. (22 MP, minus crop for 16:9 ratio, divided by 9, equal 1080×1920)
"crosses fingers"
Dual slots
Better af
Possibly faster fps in lower mp mode
Good buffer
I'd get a little micro chub.
Or even make it 8-9fps with grip. Even though I think limiting functionality without a grip is lame...7.5 isn't 8. For me 8 is the cut off).
OR I could get one as a sort of sports back up. Oh baby!
Ralph Conway wrote: They will never invite you again! Or maybe they do. To save a lot of money in marketing issues.
He will know when they invite on the next safari to Kenya and either.... give him the trip of his life and return him home at the end or 'accidentally' pick up camp and drive off one night leaving poor Eosfun alone on the banks of the Mara river with Nile Crocodile bait 'accidentally' left surrounding his tent.
Thank you for sharing the details that you have in the thread.
The comments below are the best analysis on canon strategy I seen from anyone on the boards as well as the hint on where the next segment killer will come is rather intriguing and tends to be inline with my thoughts. Are you accepting any new clients as investors and what is the minimum investment threshold? :-) I would like some EOSFun also!
eosfun wrote:
@artsupreme:
Those polls might be EOSfun to some, but every marketeer knows that there is a significant gap between what people say they would like and what they really want and spend their money on. Canon knows this like no other company. The best selling cameras have also been the cameras that got the most critique. The XXd XXXD and XXXXd series are selling in amounts of a multiplier of the Xd series. From these the 5D series has always been a better selling camera than those of the competition, be it Nikon, Sony, Pentax, you name it, even though nobody seemed to like the AF, the lack of weather sealing, ergonomics, the speed, high ISO performance/banding, etc. It still was the camera with the best overall image quality in the enthusiast 'affordable' class. I also read that in Timbop comment, and think that is illustrative for how many photographers look at the 5D. It's not perfect, but it's giving incredible bang for the buck for someone who is photographer with high demanding quality standards of the image quality. The truth is Canon got it right with their specs and market segmentation, better than the competition. So far..... The landscape is gonna change ..... but it's coming from a different corner most are expecting it to come from....Show more →
eosfun wrote:
Sorry can't give specific details in viewfinder blackout time and shutter lag, all I can tell you is I held a camera that felt like a 7D but it was no 7D . The mirror box was different and the move of the mirror had more 'slap' than the 7D. This was right after I signed a paper that told me I was not allowed to give specs of the camera I held, but it did not say anything about not being allowed to say I held a camera that looked very similar to a camera given to some employee on an EOSfun trip for Kenya :-) ...Show more →
You do realize this can mean either:
1. that it has buttons and options like a 7D but since it is no 7D it also has sloth crawling through tar shutter lag/VF blank/fps
2. that it has buttons and options like a 7D and speed heading towards a 7D but it is no 7D because well it is a 5D3 with FF
the more slap means larger than 7D mirror (or faster, but faster than 8fps is insanely unlikely to say the least)
Jeff Nolten wrote:
I agree with EOSfun on this. When I upgraded my 5Dc to the 5D2 it was mainly for the video and the dust shaker so I'd feel more confident changing lenses in the field. But the 5Dc was too good to sell. After several years of using both I find the 5Dc adequate for most of my needs so it usually sports the 24-105. I took advantage of the CLP to get a 7D and while its great for birds and other action stuff for most of my wildlife needs the 5D2 yields better quality images. The extra "reach" of the 7D just doesn't gain that much over the 5D2, for me, in my use. The 5D2 is now my goto telephoto, ultra wide, or macro body.
My post above about AF is aimed at satisfying professionals like BobbyTan who need the outer points for their portraiture work and want a lighter body than a 1DX. Professionals like Robert Lynn are probably going to have to use a 1DX if they want FF action. For the vast majority of us non-professional 5D users I don't see what new features could be critical enough to upgrade again. Perhaps when I wear my 5Dc out.
I think 5D II was a bigger upgrade than it's given credit. IQ of 5Dc is superb, excellent detai and colourl, but 5D II is better and despite what some claim the 14 bit files are more malleable IMO. I get far less posterization now with skies and better shadow detail. Apart from that the 21MP allows far more flexibility for cropping. We won't mention that the 5Dc had possibly the worst LCD ever, with non-existent colour accuracy. Aside from video which I hardly use the improved LCD along with LV has been a boon for landscape use especially with TS-E lenses on the 5D II. The 5Dc was a brilliant sensor stuffed into a 10D class body. I don't really miss it at all.
Lars Johnsson wrote:
Would you expect to get as good AF on a body that cost 1/3 then.
The problem is that people here like to have a 1Ds3 or 1Dx. But they like to pay for a 5D or 7D
That's not true at all, but why do you think the AF module of the 1Ds III is why this camera costs 3x as much. The AF component would be warrant maybe $500 difference. I'd gladly pay extra $500 just for the improved AF of 1 series. But it doesn't have to be 1 series, although we have a precedent in EOS 3.
The trouble with just planting 7D AF in 5D III is the coverage will be too small despite any other misgivings about how well it actually works. I think the 5D III deserves a new AF dedicated solely to FF.
I'm certain it will be better, but how they achieve this I have no idea.
Lars Johnsson wrote:
So why have the 5D and 5DII been such incredible best sellers in FF ? If most people understand how unreliable/inaccurate they are?
Nikon should have at least 90% of the buyers when they are so much better.........
Because Lars we are pragmatists and would still buy the 5D II no matter what as the IQ is superb and the feature set very good. Canon looks to sales just like you and says, see, we don't need to change anything, because it's selling up a storm. I think that while it may be a valid point, it doesn't mean they could have done even better. They could have litterally made the D700 totally irrelevant to the market if it had offered a much better AF. There would be few complaints (except from the alt gear crowd of course) and Canon's reputation would have increased a fair bit IMO.
eosfun wrote:
The lack of a vision on integration from current camera manufacturers is the threat for EOSfun, and other kinds of photofun. But who cares if one of those other companies will lead us to the new level of "multimediafun"
Exactly. Connectivity is the key driver and why phones with cameras are wiping out the entry level P&S market for the specialist camera manufacturers and this will spread further up the food chain as phones improve. Sony and Samsung for exmaple are much better prepared to meet this challenge than Nikon or Canon IMO. It's still outrageous we don't have even the behemoth 1D X with integrated GPS or wi-fi and have to buy expensive addons. Lunacy.
eosfun wrote:
The problem however is that current manufacturers think camera-centric and want their tool to be the hub or medium for images and not just be a device for a smartphone or tablet. While the electronics manufacturers just integrate imaging (still and video) into their device with the greatest ease and start to improve image quality and features in giant leaps every new generation of updates. Sooner or later this will arrive to a quality level that is enough for the mainstream Rebel shooter and then a multi million market of D-SLR users disappears and will be reduced to a niche for enthusiasts who are willing to pay a premium for their better quality "classic DSLR" camera....Show more →
There are 2 paths to achieve this integration dream: on-board or separate device. On-board image capturing devices can never achieve the same depth of field and picture quality as that in an APS-C camera (let alone FF). It's a matter of size vs what-is-good-enough. On a separate path, Sony aims to integrate their devices into one singular system: smartphones, televisions, computers and tablets. See here
eosfun wrote:
It's still a bit more of the same, while it is obvious that Canon needs bigger steps in their upgrade paths and more innovation in their current product line.
I am also surprised that both Nikon and Canon are still putting the same old predictable stuff into the D800 and 5D3. I was hoping for a leap forward, maybe a mirrorless FF solution. The Japanese are really stagnating... I hope Samsung gives them a rude awakening.
The cost of a bare-bones wifi + GPS chip is basically negligible. Wi-fi would be nice, but GPS would be very, very useful (or at least fun) for many, many consumers (and pros).
I don't want to have to buy a grip (I like my 5Dmk2 gripless.... hell, I wish it was smaller/lighter), and shell out 1/4 the camera price, so that GPS gets integrated in metadata. And I'd prefer not to have to carry an extra logger (which I do), requiring me to charge another battery, not to mention sync photos to the track. GPS would be useful for every assignment I take-- and fun for every photo I take on my personal time.
I'm happy with one accurate center AF point. That's about all I ever use. Focus and recompose (if needed). I only get riled if I have no accurate AF points!
If Canon can improve the AF system, it's fine by me.
With the 5D, I want better IQ at low prices. 2.5 fps and one AF point are fine by me.
bobbytan wrote:
There is really only ONE reliable AF point in the 5D II. I don't know if the center AF point of the 5D II is more reliable/consistent than the 7D but when I had a 7D (twice) I loved the AF system and I (along with many here) would be happy to have the 7D AF system on the 5D III. Of course I would be thrilled if Canon gives us something even better, but I would be more than satisfied with the 7D AF system.
for non-action I sometimes trust 5D2 center point a bit more than the 7D point, sometimes even for distant action ai servo even (but that said, it could still be a lot better even there, it's more saying the 7D AF simply isn't all that than that the 5D2 AF center point is perfection) but not as much for closer in ai servo and the outer points are just simply way worse
Lars Johnsson wrote:
So why have the 5D and 5DII been such incredible best sellers in FF ? If most people understand how unreliable/inaccurate they are?
Nikon should have at least 90% of the buyers when they are so much better.........
That's an incredibly oversimplified observation Lars.
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