p.7 #2 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Jeff Nolten wrote:
The 5D with 35 f2 comes awfully darn close. I mentioned (in the dream kit thread) my desire for a rebel sized FF but we're talking about a pound weight difference. If you can live with the small lens, the body is not so bad. Not sayin' its pocketable though.
Agree 100%. For several years a 35/2 was basically welded to my XTi.
I've gone through the "I need a pocketable camera to carry all the time," occasionally, and even got a P&S that's about the size of two credit cards. I use it so much that I can't even remember what kind it is or even where it is, hahaha. As I recall it took decent pics.
If I didn't require AF, the V'lander would be a serious consideration.
Jan 21, 2012 at 02:11 PM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #3 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
p.7 #4 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Pixel Perfect wrote:
Wait until Feb 3rs when the Olympus OM-D is announced as it will be weather sealed, and have integrated EVF, 5-axis IBIS and the 16MP GX1 sensor. Also off potentially even bigger news is the new Pentax EVIL camera using the K5's APS-C sensor. This will be announced early February too I've heard.
I think the IQ of the mirrorless brigade is no longer a restriction to worry about. IQ is clearly excellent with any of them and it doesn't have to equal a 5D II + 85L to still make it a very good camera. Any of them would make me happy....Show more →
OMG the OM-D. Nice specs. I'm also a fan of OMD.
I really like the styling of the silver E-P3 though. Will have to see how the.OM-D looks like.
p.7 #6 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Daan B wrote:
It already was before EVIL cameras came to town. It may have become a little bit more convenient by using EVIL cameras. But certainly not as convenient as the marketing folks would like to make us believe. At least, if you don't want to be 'limited' to pancake lenses or alt glass. I guess it's the ultimate photographers dream to always have a camera ready for those once in a lifetime shots. While in reality the camera doesn't leave the pocket at all. Who are we kidding?
I think you are kidding yourself by not understanding that a number of us are using these cameras in reality instead of just talking about them in some theoretical debates . Are you trying to tell me that I am just dreaming that I now take my camera to a lot more places then I did my DSLR? And that there are so many more moments and scene that I am able to capture which I didn't in past? And that I am enjoying photography more because I am less obsessed about gear and lenses and more focused on picture-making process?
A number of us have just shared our thoughts about why we acquired such a system based on our specific needs. Your needs maybe different which is perfectly fine. But I think it would be a bit presumptuous for you to try and define what others may or may not need
p.7 #7 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Lars Johnsson wrote:
The image quality from a NEX 5 with a lens so small it will have a good fit in your pocket, is also lacking compared to a good DSLR with a larger lens So it's about the same thing........
Right and the IQ from your FF DSLR with L lenses would be lacking compared to the 80MP Phase MF digital back with good lenses, and that in turn will be lacking compared to a scan from a 8x10 large format camera. And since we believe only in extremes so lets declare that every photographer should go for either a 8x10 large format camera for best IQ or a cell phone for best size with no level in between allowed Thanks for making the choice so easy for me!!
a) Canon is going to introduce a mirrorless camera in 2012
b) There is a need for miniaturization for every type of camera
c) The first priority in any camera is image quality. Downsizing comes after. (This is probably a criticism against Nikon's 1-series.)
d) Although the market for mirrorless cameras is rather huge, there are surprisingly not many accompanying lenses available. (This is probably a criticism against Sony's NEX series.)
e) Miniaturization of the entire EF line of cameras is in progress. The EF mount will be preserved for many more years.
p.7 #11 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
curious80 wrote:
Right and the IQ from your FF DSLR with L lenses would be lacking compared to the 80MP Phase MF digital back with good lenses, and that in turn will be lacking compared to a scan from a 8x10 large format camera. And since we believe only in extremes so lets declare that every photographer should go for either a 8x10 large format camera for best IQ or a cell phone for best size with no level in between allowed Thanks for making the choice so easy for me!!
You might be surprised....as I was recently when I compared a B+W A3 print from a G10 and a MF film scan from a 25ASA film...the film was 'better' but not obviously so.
What equalized them so much was software manipulation...that is the future of photography......I am in the process of binning my 'wet' print collection and re- doing everything via neg scans, CS5, and my top spec printers...a real jump in IQ in my opinion...
p.7 #12 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
h00ligan wrote:
Actually, I'd disagree with Lars unless a 'good' dslr means only full frame.
Even then, nex with zeiss or Leica glass can't be faulted in most cases compared to 5d2 and L
But not if you need wide...or sports, etc...
The quality isn't the problems, the feature set may be lacking depending on need.
Well said. I am looking for shallow depth of field in portraiture work. And this is where a NEX-like camera with FF sensor fits in. For everything else, APS-C is good enough.
p.7 #13 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
anthonygh wrote:
What equalized them so much was software manipulation...
Indeed. As Dan said, take two cameras under scrutiny, shoot them in RAW, process the images with the best software and compare. The differences between m43, APS-C and FF may not be as stark as one is inclined to believe.
Jan 21, 2012 at 08:22 PM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #14 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
curious80 wrote:
Right and the IQ from your FF DSLR with L lenses would be lacking compared to the 80MP Phase MF digital back with good lenses, and that in turn will be lacking compared to a scan from a 8x10 large format camera. And since we believe only in extremes so lets declare that every photographer should go for either a 8x10 large format camera for best IQ or a cell phone for best size with no level in between allowed Thanks for making the choice so easy for me!!
The big difference is that I agree that a FF DSLR will have less good IQ compared to a 80MP Phase MF digital back. But the Nex 5 owner say his Nex will not be lacking anything compared to a good DSLR.
You didn't get that
Nex cameras are nice with rather good IQ. But they can't replace a DSLR even if a few people here think so.
Jan 21, 2012 at 09:01 PM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #15 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Jeff Nolten wrote:
Lars, have you tried the Voigtlander 20? That one looks pretty small too for a wide angle.
I have the 40 and 90. But not the 20. Most people say the 20 is less good than the others. The 20 is just a little bit larger than the 40
p.7 #16 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
It totally depends on your need. If the largest you print is 12x18. Sure they can(again assuming you don't need mega shallow dof, sports af tracking) . Again the need dictates.
I have little doubt Annie L can get better photos with her x100 than most can with ff.
Jan 21, 2012 at 09:08 PM
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p.7 #17 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
h00ligan wrote:
Actually, I'd disagree with Lars unless a 'good' dslr means only full frame.
Even then, nex with zeiss or Leica glass can't be faulted in most cases compared to 5d2 and L
But not if you need wide...or sports, etc...
The quality isn't the problems, the feature set may be lacking depending on need.
You have too many "if and unless"
And you can of course use good glass on DSLR bodies also. I own seven Zeiss lenses with Canon mount. So if comparing against a Nex with Zeiss glass, then compare it against DSLR with Zeiss glass also.
If you like to have the Nex in your pocket like people say here, then a most of the good lenses can't be used on the Nex either
Jan 21, 2012 at 09:13 PM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #18 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
h00ligan wrote:
It totally depends on your need. If the largest you print is 12x18. Sure they can(again assuming you don't need mega shallow dof, sports af tracking) . Again the need dictates.
I have little doubt Annie L can get better photos with her x100 than most can with ff.
But you are comparing the Photographers here. And not the equipment. She will get better photos with the FF DSLR if using both cameras.
p.7 #19 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Lars Johnsson wrote:
You didn't get that
Nex cameras are nice with rather good IQ. But they can't replace a DSLR even if a few people here think so.
I don't believe most people here are saying mirror less will replace their Dslr. For me, they augment the Dslr, allowing me to have a camera on me at all times. This a Dslr can not do. Also, the image quality from the latest mirror less systems is really quite remarkable.
The big difference is that I agree that a FF DSLR will have less good IQ compared to a 80MP Phase MF digital back. But the Nex 5 owner say his Nex will not be lacking anything compared to a good DSLR.
Jan 21, 2012 at 09:55 PM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #20 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
@ chez,
Yes I understand all that. But my reply & the included quote in the first place. It was to the person who wrote that his Nex 5 easily matches anything he could get from a DSLR.
. Are you trying to tell me that I am just dreaming that I now take my camera to a lot more places then I did my DSLR? And that there are so many more moments and scene that I am able to capture which I didn't in past? And that I am enjoying photography more because I am less obsessed about gear and lenses and more focused on picture-making process?