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Archive 2012The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
p.11 #1The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
j.liam wrote:
It's something already described by others, wouldn't call it unprecedented.
wiseguy010 wrote:
Where do you see the "unprecedented" color fringing? I just see a very small amount, hardly noticeable.
The lady on the beach, and previously around the angel's wings. But only at the left side of the church, not the right side.
It measures 2-3 pixels on the lady. Whether that is hardly noticeable or leaps to the eye differs from one person to the next, but it is far more than the 2.8/21 is supposed to deliver.
Zeiss themselves say that although the 2/25 is well corrected for lateral chromatic aberration, it is still behind the 2.8/21 in this regard. Any test showing the opposite is to be received with caution.
Toothwalker wrote
This amount of color fringing for the D2.8/21 is unprecedented.wiseguy010 wrote:
Where do you see the "unprecedented" color fringing? I just see a very small amount, hardly noticeable.
The lady on the beach, and previously around the angel's wings. But only at the left side of the church, not the right side.
It measures 2-3 pixels on the lady. Whether that is hardly noticeable or leaps to the eye differs from one person to the next, but it is far more than the 2.8/21 is supposed to deliver.
Zeiss themselves say that although the 2/25 is well corrected for lateral chromatic aberration, it is still behind the 2.8/21 in this regard. Any test showing the opposite is to be received with caution.
Feb 01, 2012 at 03:41 PM
p.11 #2The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
Photozone just reviewed this lens.
http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/713-zeiss25f2eosff
Corner is decent based on the test they show after f5.6.
But sharpness of most of the frame and CA is impressive. actually, it is a crazy sharp lens.
For most usage when you don't care the corner, I can see this will be an awesome lens.
Edit:
A short glance at their 21 review, this 25 performance shows nothing short in terms of corner sharpness. At least the distance they test. Not sure how they average the corner in their curve, which may not be able to show 21's advantage of extreme corner as MTF and real world picture showing here.
http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/713-zeiss25f2eosff
Corner is decent based on the test they show after f5.6.
But sharpness of most of the frame and CA is impressive. actually, it is a crazy sharp lens.
For most usage when you don't care the corner, I can see this will be an awesome lens.
Edit:
A short glance at their 21 review, this 25 performance shows nothing short in terms of corner sharpness. At least the distance they test. Not sure how they average the corner in their curve, which may not be able to show 21's advantage of extreme corner as MTF and real world picture showing here.
Feb 01, 2012 at 04:06 PM
p.11 #3The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
I suppose it depends on where in the corner they test. One chart I saw showed that they tested not directly in the corner, but a few mm out, which would avoid the worst spot.
Feb 01, 2012 at 04:40 PM
p.11 #4The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
I believe their corner testing doesn't cover the extreme part of the corner which is in my crops.
Feb 01, 2012 at 04:41 PM
p.11 #5The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
Toothwalker wrote:
It's something already described by others, wouldn't call it unprecedented.The lady on the beach, and previously around the angel's wings. But only at the left side of the church, not the right side.
It measures 2-3 pixels on the lady. Whether that is hardly noticeable or leaps to the eye differs from one person to the next, but it is far more than the 2.8/21 is supposed to deliver.
Zeiss themselves say that although the 2/25 is well corrected for lateral chromatic aberration, it is still behind the 2.8/21 in this regard. Any test showing the opposite is to be received with caution.
I see color fringing on the left side of the lady but not the man next to here. I don't see it on the left side angel wings.
Could the blue fringing on the lady on the beach just be motion blur?
Also, when I look at Photozone's CA test results for 21 vs, 25/2 , the 21 is higher at ~.7 and the 25/2 is ~.3.
j.liam wrote
Toothwalker wrote
This amount of color fringing for the D2.8/21 is unprecedented.wiseguy010 wrote
Where do you see the "unprecedented" color fringing? I just see a very small amount, hardly noticeable.It measures 2-3 pixels on the lady. Whether that is hardly noticeable or leaps to the eye differs from one person to the next, but it is far more than the 2.8/21 is supposed to deliver.
Zeiss themselves say that although the 2/25 is well corrected for lateral chromatic aberration, it is still behind the 2.8/21 in this regard. Any test showing the opposite is to be received with caution.
I see color fringing on the left side of the lady but not the man next to here. I don't see it on the left side angel wings.
Could the blue fringing on the lady on the beach just be motion blur?
Also, when I look at Photozone's CA test results for 21 vs, 25/2 , the 21 is higher at ~.7 and the 25/2 is ~.3.
Feb 01, 2012 at 04:45 PM
p.11 #6The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
wayne seltzer wrote:
I see color fringing on the left side of the lady but not the man next to here. I don't see it on the left side angel wings.
Could the blue fringing on the lady on the beach just be motion blur?
Also, when I look at Photozone's CA test results for 21 vs, 25/2 , the 21 is higher at ~.7 and the 25/2 is ~.3.
I see green/blue at the left side of the lady and a reddish fringe at the right side. It is also present on some of the rocks/vegetation. Could you make available the full frames (or raw files even) of the two D21 (f/8) captures of the church (focused on the center and corner, respectively)? This is interesting.
I see color fringing on the left side of the lady but not the man next to here. I don't see it on the left side angel wings.
Could the blue fringing on the lady on the beach just be motion blur?
Also, when I look at Photozone's CA test results for 21 vs, 25/2 , the 21 is higher at ~.7 and the 25/2 is ~.3.
I see green/blue at the left side of the lady and a reddish fringe at the right side. It is also present on some of the rocks/vegetation. Could you make available the full frames (or raw files even) of the two D21 (f/8) captures of the church (focused on the center and corner, respectively)? This is interesting.
Feb 01, 2012 at 05:16 PM
p.11 #7The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
Sure, but how can I send you the large RAW files?
The church shots were all done on a tripod with MLU and using loupe and liveview whereas the shots of the pier were handheld just so you know. Also, the church shots had the sun pouring into the frame from the left side of the church so that might of increased the amount of CA on the left side vs. the right side.
The church shots were all done on a tripod with MLU and using loupe and liveview whereas the shots of the pier were handheld just so you know. Also, the church shots had the sun pouring into the frame from the left side of the church so that might of increased the amount of CA on the left side vs. the right side.
Feb 01, 2012 at 05:28 PM
p.11 #8The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
zhangyue wrote:
Photozone just reviewed this lens.
http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/713-zeiss25f2eosff
Corner is decent based on the test they show after f5.6.
But sharpness of most of the frame and CA is impressive. actually, it is a crazy sharp lens.
For most usage when you don't care the corner, I can see this will be an awesome lens.
Edit:
A short glance at their 21 review, this 25 performance shows nothing short in terms of corner sharpness. At least the distance they test. Not sure how they average the corner in their curve, which may not be able to show 21's advantage of extreme corner as MTF and...Show more →
The better distortion values make the 2/25 also look good, better than all the other Distagon's.
Photography is not about perfect corners, it is a nice to have, not more
Photozone just reviewed this lens.
http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/713-zeiss25f2eosff
Corner is decent based on the test they show after f5.6.
But sharpness of most of the frame and CA is impressive. actually, it is a crazy sharp lens.
For most usage when you don't care the corner, I can see this will be an awesome lens.
Edit:
A short glance at their 21 review, this 25 performance shows nothing short in terms of corner sharpness. At least the distance they test. Not sure how they average the corner in their curve, which may not be able to show 21's advantage of extreme corner as MTF and...Show more →
The better distortion values make the 2/25 also look good, better than all the other Distagon's.
Photography is not about perfect corners, it is a nice to have, not more
Feb 01, 2012 at 05:38 PM
p.11 #9The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
Doo-bop wrote:
http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/713-zeiss25f2eosff
Corner is decent based on the test they show after f5.6.
But sharpness of most of the frame and CA is impressive. actually, it is a crazy sharp lens.
For most usage when you don't care the corner, I can see this will be an awesome lens.
Edit:
A short glance at their 21 review, this 25 performance shows nothing short in terms of corner sharpness. At least the distance they test. Not sure how they average the corner in their curve, which may not be able to show 21's advantage of extreme corner as MTF and real world picture showing here.The better distortion values make the 2/25 also look good, better than all the other Distagon's.
Photography is not about perfect corners, it is a nice to have, not more
+1, And consider this lens get f2 speed, it is quite versatile lens. I can image use this with latest Canonikon 16M/18M body at low light. Not to say with 25mm minimal focus distance and beautiful bokeh from samples I see so far. Tempting.....
zhangyue wrote
Photozone just reviewed this lens.http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/713-zeiss25f2eosff
Corner is decent based on the test they show after f5.6.
But sharpness of most of the frame and CA is impressive. actually, it is a crazy sharp lens.
For most usage when you don't care the corner, I can see this will be an awesome lens.
Edit:
A short glance at their 21 review, this 25 performance shows nothing short in terms of corner sharpness. At least the distance they test. Not sure how they average the corner in their curve, which may not be able to show 21's advantage of extreme corner as MTF and real world picture showing here.
Photography is not about perfect corners, it is a nice to have, not more
+1, And consider this lens get f2 speed, it is quite versatile lens. I can image use this with latest Canonikon 16M/18M body at low light. Not to say with 25mm minimal focus distance and beautiful bokeh from samples I see so far. Tempting.....
Feb 01, 2012 at 05:45 PM
p.11 #10The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
Actually they show that the 21 has 1.7% distortion and the 25/2 has 1.8%
The 24G has 1.4%.
Also, the 24G and 24/1.4Lmk2 are sharper at f2 in the center. But I know sharpness is overrated.
24G's achilles weakness is CA which looks to be as much as the 35/2. Horrrendous, I know.
I thought from my own quick testing that my 24G at 1.4 was about as sharp as the 25/2 at f2 in the center area.
The 24G has 1.4%.
Also, the 24G and 24/1.4Lmk2 are sharper at f2 in the center. But I know sharpness is overrated.
24G's achilles weakness is CA which looks to be as much as the 35/2. Horrrendous, I know.
I thought from my own quick testing that my 24G at 1.4 was about as sharp as the 25/2 at f2 in the center area.
Feb 01, 2012 at 05:56 PM
p.11 #11The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
Doo-bop wrote:
Photography is not about perfect corners, it is a nice to have, not more
Yeah, I think Zeiss should put that in their marketing material...NOT. Certain images benefit from sharp, crisp corners, some don't. I know I would want to have the option of getting those sharp corners when the subject requires it.
Photography is not about perfect corners, it is a nice to have, not more
Yeah, I think Zeiss should put that in their marketing material...NOT. Certain images benefit from sharp, crisp corners, some don't. I know I would want to have the option of getting those sharp corners when the subject requires it.
Feb 01, 2012 at 06:03 PM
p.11 #12The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
But I agree the 25/2 is a nice lens and you should get it zhangyue.
Feb 01, 2012 at 06:04 PM
p.11 #13The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
'I see green/blue at the left side of the lady and a reddish fringe at the right side. It is also present on some of the rocks/vegetation.'
Indeed, obvious even on my work monitor. These are very low in contrast also. The bright pole due north of the woman could be interesting.
The ZE/F 21mm has its tan/sag lines much further apart than the CY predecessor, out at an image height of 16-20mm, where these people are in the photo.
I see PZ find the 25/2 to be *much better* than the ZE 21mm at f5.6 everywhere except far corners, where it is close - and that edges and corners do improve at f5.6 and f8 over f4. It looks like a great lens and very acceptable for almost anything.
Re CA in the two lenses, Zeiss say about the 25/2: 'achieving chromatic correction that is not quite as good as with the legendary 2.8/21'. Maybe they should quote PZ data in future?
Indeed, obvious even on my work monitor. These are very low in contrast also. The bright pole due north of the woman could be interesting.
The ZE/F 21mm has its tan/sag lines much further apart than the CY predecessor, out at an image height of 16-20mm, where these people are in the photo.
I see PZ find the 25/2 to be *much better* than the ZE 21mm at f5.6 everywhere except far corners, where it is close - and that edges and corners do improve at f5.6 and f8 over f4. It looks like a great lens and very acceptable for almost anything.
Re CA in the two lenses, Zeiss say about the 25/2: 'achieving chromatic correction that is not quite as good as with the legendary 2.8/21'. Maybe they should quote PZ data in future?
Feb 01, 2012 at 06:33 PM
p.11 #14The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Yeah, I think Zeiss should put that in their marketing material...NOT. Certain images benefit from sharp, crisp corners, some don't. I know I would want to have the option of getting those sharp corners when the subject requires it.
the point is that I write "not perfect" while you understand "not sharp" Dont forget that even the 21 has a problem in the corner, when its comes to distortion it is. The moustache gives a less than perfect (corner) image then.
And there are we with + and - points. Sometime it need's to have the option of getting fast speed a less or more wide angle. I remember to see here an image thread for fast boke lenses and I never see a thread for show your best corner crops image. in a 3D room or space it is very often not possible or even wanted to have perfect corner resolution.
I see many people like Wayne getting profit out of the Zeiss 21, other people though have other needs and for those it is not needed to make it a 21vs25 thread. They maybe want to see what the lens is good for, maybe not all lenses must be sharper than the sacred 21 too if they have other strenght. So lets be merry alltoghether
Doo-bop wrote
Photography is not about perfect corners, it is a nice to have, not morethe point is that I write "not perfect" while you understand "not sharp" Dont forget that even the 21 has a problem in the corner, when its comes to distortion it is. The moustache gives a less than perfect (corner) image then.
And there are we with + and - points. Sometime it need's to have the option of getting fast speed a less or more wide angle. I remember to see here an image thread for fast boke lenses and I never see a thread for show your best corner crops image. in a 3D room or space it is very often not possible or even wanted to have perfect corner resolution.
I see many people like Wayne getting profit out of the Zeiss 21, other people though have other needs and for those it is not needed to make it a 21vs25 thread. They maybe want to see what the lens is good for, maybe not all lenses must be sharper than the sacred 21 too if they have other strenght. So lets be merry alltoghether
Feb 01, 2012 at 06:49 PM
p.11 #15The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
philip_pj wrote:
'I see green/blue at the left side of the lady and a reddish fringe at the right side. It is also present on some of the rocks/vegetation.'
Indeed, obvious even on my work monitor. These are very low in contrast also. The bright pole due north of the woman could be interesting.
The ZE/F 21mm has its tan/sag lines much further apart than the CY predecessor, out at an image height of 16-20mm, where these people are in the photo.
I see PZ find the 25/2 to be *much better* than the ZE 21mm at f5.6 everywhere except far corners, where it...Show more →
Yes, the PZ numbers show the 25/2 much better than the 21 in the center at f5.6. I will show center crops from my various comparison shots between the two and then maybe someone can show that to me as I thought each time that they were about equal in these distant type scenes. I can believe maybe that is true close up at photozone testing distance of 50x25mm and 50x21mm distances. Or maybe the difference in these numbers is not that significant and you would not be able to tell the difference in an actual photo.
'I see green/blue at the left side of the lady and a reddish fringe at the right side. It is also present on some of the rocks/vegetation.'
Indeed, obvious even on my work monitor. These are very low in contrast also. The bright pole due north of the woman could be interesting.
The ZE/F 21mm has its tan/sag lines much further apart than the CY predecessor, out at an image height of 16-20mm, where these people are in the photo.
I see PZ find the 25/2 to be *much better* than the ZE 21mm at f5.6 everywhere except far corners, where it...Show more →
Yes, the PZ numbers show the 25/2 much better than the 21 in the center at f5.6. I will show center crops from my various comparison shots between the two and then maybe someone can show that to me as I thought each time that they were about equal in these distant type scenes. I can believe maybe that is true close up at photozone testing distance of 50x25mm and 50x21mm distances. Or maybe the difference in these numbers is not that significant and you would not be able to tell the difference in an actual photo.
Feb 01, 2012 at 06:56 PM
p.11 #16The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
Doo-bop wrote:
Yeah, I think Zeiss should put that in their marketing material...NOT. Certain images benefit from sharp, crisp corners, some don't. I know I would want to have the option of getting those sharp corners when the subject requires it.the point is that I write "not perfect" while you understand "not sharp" Dont forget that even the 21 has a problem in the corner, when its comes to distortion it is. The moustache gives a less than perfect (corner) image then.
And there are we with + and - points. Sometime it need's to have the option of getting fast speed a less or more wide angle. I remember to see here an image thread for fast boke lenses and I never see a thread for show your best corner crops image. in a 3D room or space it is...Show more →
The landscape/ seascape image posted by Wayne is an example where I saw "not sharp" corners and where it mattered to the final image. This is the situation I might be concerned about with the 25/2 IF it proves to be an across the board problem and not just an isolated case.
The problem I have with excusing poor performance (if it turns out to be the case) in the corners at long distances due to the lens being "fast" and supposedly designed for incredible bokeh (as if you can't have nice bokeh at bright F-stops and sharp corners stopped down - you can) is that it's not really that fast. If it were a 1.4, I might buy that argument a little but an F2 lens should perform exceptionally as a versatile, all-rounder due to the slower speed and the price imho.
Tariq Gibran wrote
Doo-bop wrote
Photography is not about perfect corners, it is a nice to have, not moreAnd there are we with + and - points. Sometime it need's to have the option of getting fast speed a less or more wide angle. I remember to see here an image thread for fast boke lenses and I never see a thread for show your best corner crops image. in a 3D room or space it is...Show more →
The landscape/ seascape image posted by Wayne is an example where I saw "not sharp" corners and where it mattered to the final image. This is the situation I might be concerned about with the 25/2 IF it proves to be an across the board problem and not just an isolated case.
The problem I have with excusing poor performance (if it turns out to be the case) in the corners at long distances due to the lens being "fast" and supposedly designed for incredible bokeh (as if you can't have nice bokeh at bright F-stops and sharp corners stopped down - you can) is that it's not really that fast. If it were a 1.4, I might buy that argument a little but an F2 lens should perform exceptionally as a versatile, all-rounder due to the slower speed and the price imho.
Feb 01, 2012 at 07:15 PM
p.11 #17The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
wayne seltzer wrote:
Indeed, obvious even on my work monitor. These are very low in contrast also. The bright pole due north of the woman could be interesting.
The ZE/F 21mm has its tan/sag lines much further apart than the CY predecessor, out at an image height of 16-20mm, where these people are in the photo.
I see PZ find the 25/2 to be *much better* than the ZE 21mm at f5.6 everywhere except far corners, where it is close - and that edges and corners do improve at f5.6 and f8 over f4. It looks like a great lens and very acceptable for almost anything.
Re CA in the two lenses, Zeiss say about the 25/2: 'achieving chromatic correction that is not quite as good as with the legendary 2.8/21'. Maybe they should quote PZ data in future?Yes, the PZ numbers show the 25/2 much better than the 21 in the center at f5.6. I will show center crops from my various comparison shots between the two and then maybe someone can show that to me as I thought each time that they were about equal in these distant type scenes. I can believe maybe that is true close up at photozone testing distance of 50x25mm and 50x21mm distances. Or maybe the difference in these numbers is not that significant and you would not be able to tell the difference in an actual photo.
Testing these lenses at under 1.25 meters is just silly.
philip_pj wrote
'I see green/blue at the left side of the lady and a reddish fringe at the right side. It is also present on some of the rocks/vegetation.'Indeed, obvious even on my work monitor. These are very low in contrast also. The bright pole due north of the woman could be interesting.
The ZE/F 21mm has its tan/sag lines much further apart than the CY predecessor, out at an image height of 16-20mm, where these people are in the photo.
I see PZ find the 25/2 to be *much better* than the ZE 21mm at f5.6 everywhere except far corners, where it is close - and that edges and corners do improve at f5.6 and f8 over f4. It looks like a great lens and very acceptable for almost anything.
Re CA in the two lenses, Zeiss say about the 25/2: 'achieving chromatic correction that is not quite as good as with the legendary 2.8/21'. Maybe they should quote PZ data in future?
Testing these lenses at under 1.25 meters is just silly.
Feb 01, 2012 at 07:20 PM
p.11 #18The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
I will start a thread: Best EXTREME corner performance lens I bet it will be just as popular as Bokeh thread here
Joke aside. I need prioritize my lens selection before this $1700 lens purchase. maybe MP100 need to go.
Edit:
philip_pj wrote:
Testing these lenses at under 1.25 meters is just silly.
I am not so sure about this statement.
It would be nice to have two different test distance but 1.25m is OK for 25mm focal length with half part of story telling of the lens performance. If use as people lens, this will be the range interesting to me.
I bet it will be just as popular as Bokeh thread here Joke aside. I need prioritize my lens selection before this $1700 lens purchase. maybe MP100 need to go.
Edit:
philip_pj wrote:
Testing these lenses at under 1.25 meters is just silly.
I am not so sure about this statement.
It would be nice to have two different test distance but 1.25m is OK for 25mm focal length with half part of story telling of the lens performance. If use as people lens, this will be the range interesting to me.
Feb 01, 2012 at 07:27 PM
p.11 #19The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Testing these lenses at under 1.25 meters is just silly.
... then building these lenses with a MFD of 0.25m is even more silly, is it?
Looking forward to your thorough and profound tests at any non-silly distances.
Testing these lenses at under 1.25 meters is just silly.
... then building these lenses with a MFD of 0.25m is even more silly, is it?
Looking forward to your thorough and profound tests at any non-silly distances.
Feb 01, 2012 at 10:38 PM
p.11 #20The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
Toothwalker wrote:
Zeiss themselves say that although the 2/25 is well corrected for lateral chromatic aberration, it is still behind the 2.8/21 in this regard. Any test showing the opposite is to be received with caution.
Zeiss also say themselves that they have "virtually eliminated the chromatic aberrations on this lens"
Source: http://lenses.zeiss.com/photo/en_DE/products/slr/distagont225.usage.html
Zeiss themselves say that although the 2/25 is well corrected for lateral chromatic aberration, it is still behind the 2.8/21 in this regard. Any test showing the opposite is to be received with caution.
Zeiss also say themselves that they have "virtually eliminated the chromatic aberrations on this lens"
Source: http://lenses.zeiss.com/photo/en_DE/products/slr/distagont225.usage.html
Feb 01, 2012 at 11:52 PM