I am trying to figure out how to use my Stroboframe flip bracket with a PW and SB800 at the same time on my D300. How do I mount them both? I want to blow off another SB800 speedlight on a lightstand triggered by the PW on the camera. The SB800 on the camera is desired for a fill. Usually, I just place my PW into the camera flash shoe by itself if I want off camera lighting at an event.
use the pc sync on the camera, a pc to mini cable to connect the camera to the pw, and if its a long enough cord, you can attach the PW anywhere you see fit. perhaps add a coldshoe to the frame? or if the cable reaches, put the pw in your pocket.
Paramount Cord gear is expensive but well built. You may also be able to find cheaper versions of the same piggy-back hot shoe of the PW at Flash Zebra or Michael Bass.
A cheaper but less elegant alternative would just be a 18" long PC > 1/8" mono cord connecting the PW to the camera PC connector. Best to gave a Nikon-style threaded PC connector ( which Canon also uses) to keep it in place. Paramount would be a good source for one of those. What they don't have as stock items they can custom-make.
williamkazak wrote:
There is not enough room on my Stroboframe flip bracket to hold a PW and an SB800, especially when I flip it. Mine looks like this and it is called a 350 bracket, I think.
Yep, Stroboframe Quick Flip 350; I still have an older version I got in 1979.
williamkazak wrote:
I am trying to figure out how to use my Stroboframe flip bracket with a PW and SB800 at the same time on my D300. How do I mount them both?
One way would be to strap the PW to the head of the SB-800 with some gaffer's tape or velcro strap. Not elegant looking, but it might work until you get something better.
A more elegant solution, albeit much more expensive, would be to get a MiniTT1 transmitter to put on your camera's hot shoe, and then plug the cord for your bracket-mounted flash into the hot shoe on the MiniTT1. (The MiniTT1 can be set to trigger the older PW receivers, not just the FlexTT5.)
williamkazak wrote:
There is not enough room on my Stroboframe flip bracket to hold a PW and an SB800, especially when I flip it. Mine looks like this and it is called a 350 bracket, I think. I have two of them.
You might consider changing brackets and use the camera-flip style Stroboframe bracket which will accommodate the PW on the top bar next to the flash. It costs under $50 and is the model I've used on four different cameras so far.
I like its ergonomics. When shooting I support the base of the bracket with my left hand and flip the camera from landscape/portrait my right without my eye leaving the viewfinder or either hand changing its position on the camera.
When not shooting and carrying the camera around don't use the handle on the left side either. I grab the top bar near the base of the flash and carry it with the camera hanging down. The only time I use the handle on the side is when mounting / unmounting the camera in the QR bracket I added to it.
Also because the flash is stationary and vertical there is less strain on the foot of the flash and less potential for contact problem vs. having the flash hanging off sideways in portrait mode. Using the DIY diffuser pictured above solves any problem resulting from the flash head staying in landscape orientation all the time.
Charles, the Gadget Infinity bracket looks too high as the camera is in the horiz. position.
That is not a Stroboframe, is it? Also, there is no pic of a PW attached to the bracket. The Paramount cord with the TTL base is interesting but I have no room on my Stroboframe for the PW. http://www.ebay.com/itm/170759349050?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
How are you currently triggering your "roaming strobe" as you use your flash on a bracket for fill (as you describe your technique on your website and with Monte)?
PShizzy wrote:
use the pc sync on the camera, a pc to mini cable to connect the camera to the pw, and if its a long enough cord, you can attach the PW anywhere you see fit. perhaps add a coldshoe to the frame? or if the cable reaches, put the pw in your pocket.
No room on my bracket for a PW. Put a PW into my shirt pocket? Oh yea, zap my heart with some IR. No. Sorry.
williamkazak wrote:
How are you currently triggering your "roaming strobe" as you use your flash on a bracket for fill (as you describe your technique on your website and with Monte)?
I use the Canon optical triggering. It gets a bad rap (by people like David Hobby who never actually used it) but I find it works fine for me because my OCF is usually well within the specified ranges of 40-50ft indoors and 25-30 ft. outdoors. See: http://super.nova.org/DPR/Canon/IRmyths/
Indoors my OCF is rarely more than 20ft from my master, but I have used it from over 50ft on occasion. Outdoors the power of the flash limits shooting distance to a similar range, well within the specified limit.
I bought into the Canon flash system before the TTL radio triggers were available. I'd already been using optical triggers for with manual flash 30+ years at that point so I understood situations where they didn't work and how to avoid them. In moving from my Vivitar flashes to the Canon system I wanted the ability to use the camera's evaluative metering, high speed sync and control everything from the camera without interference from other shooters. I experimented, tested and found out how to make it work starting with realistic expectations.
By realistic expectations I mean not expecting it to be a shoestring studio lighting system driving large softboxes. That's not what it was designed for and I have a set of studio lights when I need studio quality lighting. The Canon flashes are my "run and gun" PJ lighting solution. Using direct manual flash in a key over bracket fill taught me how to control apparent softness with lighting ratio and make even direct flash flattering by knowing how to place the key light to avoid distracting shadows. If the shadows model the face in a natural flattering way and are uniformly light in tone thanks to centered fill the lighting even with direct flash is quite flattering.
In terms of cause and effect the critical element is light angle relative to the face, which the bracket addresses for single flash shots and fill. Adding a diffuser to a speedlight mostly makes the highlights a bit less specular and increases the footprint of the light. Increasing the footprint winds up bouncing more "spill fill" off the ceiling resulting in lighter, softer looking shadows created directly by the flash. That spill fill effect is why StoFen and Lightsphere work great indoors with an 8' ceiling room but do very little vs. direct flash outdoors or in a room with high ceilings.
The only limiting factors with the Canon system is the output power of the Master flash, it's footprint, and the slave sensor being able to the see the light from the master. Having always used two flashes with fill on a bracket I skipped the ST-E2 trigger and bought a 580ex as my Master. I took the need for the slave to see the master into account in the design of the diffusers I use which easily allow me to keep the front base of the slave pointing towards the master at all times with the top flash head and diffuser turned to face the subject. The diffusers increases the footprint of the master flash allowing a wider range of slave placement than the specified 80° arc shown in the 580ex manual diagram. Beyond around 12ft. the need for more power trumps the benefit of the diffusers and I'll switch to direct flash and bouncing when feasible.
Line of sight is needed outdoors where there are no bounce surfaces, but indoors I've fired the slave through doorways as illustrated at the link above. The fact the system uses the IR portion of the pre-flash has little effect on its range one way or the other. To use the system as designed successfully one just needs to be aware of the signaling footprint and keep the slave oriented to where it can see the master's pre-flash signals.
That's not to say there aren't advantages to having TTL radio triggers. They will give you the freedom to place the flashes anywhere (such as inside a softbox) and not need to have a flash on the camera. But if you don't have a flash on the camera you either don't have fill for your single OCF or if using two flashes wind up wrangling two stands instead of just one.
To solve your problem of firing a flash on bracket and have a wireless transmitter if you connect the radio Tx to the camera via the PC socket with a long enough PC cord you could put the Tx anywhere. For example if you shoot with an external battery pack on the flash you could mount the Tx on the flash battery pack with the PC cord routed down the flash pack cord.
You really know what you are talking about, Charles. I have the PW Plus 2's because of the line of sight issues with Nikon SB800. Nikon places the optical sensor on the side of the flash. The PW's never let me down and always trigger the external flash. I did crack a shoe on one of my three PW's but I strap it to an umbrella stand and it is fine until I can get it fixed. The MiniTT1 from PW looks like a nice trigger and might be an expensive solution. More stuff to buy and carry. The PW Flex5 has a standup type antenna which might get in the way when used in the camera shoe but uses AA cells rather than a button cell as the MiniTT1.
Both Alzo and Gadget Infinity brackets have enough room to mount a Pocket Wizard Plus 2 with the speedlight. The Alzo has a type of locking mechanism that keeps the camera in the portrait position and slows you down when flipping the camera. I am wondering if the Infinity bracket stays upright when in the portrait position. I read a review somewhere that suggested the weight of the camera can make an unlocked camera bracket slip back to the horizontal position.
I use the new PW ITTL UNITS without any problems from my Canon 580EX2 or my Canon 580EX. all the time. For your configuration I would put the mini on the camera. Use a flex for each of your speedlites. I use the 1/4 28 stud when ever possible because the hot shoe mount is week. So mount the camera to your bracket.mount the flex using the 1/4 28 stud. To the flash part of the bracket. Remove any unnecessary parts in doing so. Mount the first Speedlite to this flex using the hotshoe. Set it up for channel a. Mount your second Speedlite wherever on top of a second flex unit which is set to channel b. if desired setup a third Speedlite to a third flex set to channel c. best to set a AC3 unit on the mini to control the. Speedlites.
Set a speedlites to ETTL MODE. If you will be needing HSS then set the speedlites accordingly..
With this setup you can switch each Speedlite on and off individually. Also you can adjust the power individually. You can set each to manual or have one in manual and the others innauto mode. Or vice versa.
This system works extremely well. While not cheap you get you money's worth. This system is expandable by adding a Speedlite and flex to any of the groups or add one to each if needed.
When I piggy back a flash on a bracket and a pocket wizard (to fire remote flashes) I use a cord, like pshizzy said and I gaffer's tape the wizard to the flash on the bracket, or to the bracket itself. Not pretty but holds well and I don't have to worry about it falling off.
Thanks for the comments. I checked out Flex 1 and I don't like the button batteries. Flex 5 has an antenna on it which would get into the way for me and I don't want to buy another battery device when I have three PW Plus 2's handy. Believe it when I say that I just mounted a PW Plus 2 onto my Stroboframe 350 bracket with an SB800 at the same time. I used a 1/4-20 bolt on the bottom of the bracket with some rubber washers. It is mounted near the handle. The PW fits underneath the bracket with the antenna facing forward. It is connected to the camera PC socket with a short PC cord while my SB28 TTL cord/equivelant is in the hot shoe. I will be taking some pics of this rig to post here. I will run with this setup with the flash on bracket doing most of the lighting and also blowing off a pair of external SB800's on lightstands with wheels for a wedding reception. I like the lightstand on wheels approach because if it gets bumped (when it gets bumped) it will just roll and not topple. I don't like the idea of strapping a PW onto the top of a flash head. The flash shoe is too delicate in my opinion and may crack off (Vivitar 283/285 memories). Gaffers tape? Oh my, messy.
If you don't have anything on top of your flash I'd just use some heavy duty velcro & attach it to the top of your flash. Thats what I do (without the use of a bracket)
What other light are you using th PW for? Another SB flash or different type of light?
Thanks,
Matt
With this setup, the object was to blow off another pair of SB800's, on rolling Manfrotto light stands, such as at a wedding reception while the original SB800 on the bracket is still effectively shooting fill. This setup would be used for dancing shots, or cake cut. I am excited about other uses at events too, such as groups. I just tried it the last couple of weeks at an art gallery/jam session where the musicians play on Thursday nights. I had my flash on a bracket for fill and an extra pair of SB800's off camera. One musician knocked over a small Pic stand which I had an SB800 and PW Plus 2 on for backlight. It was a wood floor and there was no damage. The next time, I eliminated the backlight and I just used one extra SB800 speedligh on the side as a key light with a small silver umbrella and flash on a bracket on the camera for fill. Looked good.
Scott Mosher wrote:
If you don't have anything on top of your flash I'd just use some heavy duty velcro & attach it to the top of your flash. Thats what I do (without the use of a bracket)
Brackets work for me. That is why I have been using them since 1980. Keeping the flash over the lens is what I want to do. I dislike the shadow on the side in portrait position without one. Placing a PW on top of an SB800 is too risky for me because the flash shoes are delicate. I would love to see a pic of your setup, however.
I just reconfigured my Stroboframe and PW setup. I got a Manfrotto accessory dead shoe now bolted below the Stroboframe 350 bracket. When I slide the PW Plus 2 into the shoe it stays there pointing down. In the previous attempt, with the PW pointing horizontal next to the camera, it would wiggle and turn because I could not get the bolt to stay in one position. I tried the setup last Thursday and it worked fine.
