I have the 7D, 1D2N, 1d3 & 1d4 & while they are all really great cameras the 1d2n is the only one that has never let me down. At one time or the other it has come to the rescue as my back-up. While the 1d2n does not have all the bells & whistles of the "latest & greatest" it is my most dependable camera. Don't get me wrong, if I had to pick one, it would be the 1d4, but at todays prices a low to medium shutter count 1d2n is a really good buy!
If you can live with the 8mg res and a little lower ISO operation, it will give you great files! The nly drawback for me is the old 2-button style of setting things.
eskimochaos wrote:
Peter, is your keeper rate really ~3% for BIFs? You post some fantastic shots from a day's trip, you take multiple-hundred in that day?
Not criticizing just trying to best understand that is deemed an OK level.
-Will
Will, my keeper rate is 2-3% for more difficult BIF (test) shots like that head-on pijun. Many days I come home with nothing, particularly when trying to get some nice background.
On flyby type of shots, the rate of in-focus ones is a bit higher.
artsupreme wrote:
I only see your 7D photos because every time someone states they don't like it you get hurt and post all your bird photos that have been thoroughly cleaned up in PP with selective NR/masking and act like it's not the noisiest body to date - do you really expect it not to be with 18MP on a cropper? It's no secret there Imagemaster. Your BIF's actually aren't very impressive compared to your other images - nothing to brag about there as far as 7D AF goes. Try shooting them at larger apertures and see what happens - pretty easy to nail stuff at f/10 and f/11. Not saying the 7D's AF isn't impressive or capable but it's no 1DIIN when put to the challenge. The only thing here the I see 7D is better for is shooting at high ISO's 1600+. Not everyone needs that, nor does everyone want to tolerate the noise. I've owned a 7D since the day it was released and put 1000's of clicks on it. It's a nice body and I would suggest it for someone like you who shoots stationary wildlife.
Why so abrasive? Some people haven't had the same experience that you have had and disagree. No need to be so childish about it. At motorsports and airshows last year I used a 7D and 1Ds2 alongside each other, the 7D had more keepers. I also used the 7D for football, where in one match (admittedly a charity game and not top flight!) I had nigh on 100% keepers, I never had that with my old 1D3 which I do rate as better AF than the 7D. As I understand it the AF in the 1Ds2 is the same as the 1D2n, it is actually alluded to that the AF in the 1Ds2 is at an advantage as it doesn't have to work at 8fps... In my experience the 7D holds up very well to the 1Ds2, this is for various uses from children playing with AI Servo and the lens wide open (f1.4-f1.8), to motorsports, airshows, football and rugby. BiF I have not done enough to really comment on, but I haven't noticed a huge difference there either with the limited shooting I have done.
There's a history with the 7D cheer leader crew here, you might have not witnessed it yet. You think I'm bad? These guys attack others for sharing their experiences/opinions with the 7D noise/AF, just wait it's the same old story. Others who don't like the confrontation are driven away only to leave the guys who live here with thousands of posts littering the thread with the condescending "haha yeah right the 7D has noise" attitude. I don't mind the confrontation, I prefer to call it like it is...
gheller wrote:
The 7D was difficult to exploit the max FPS, AF wasn't even close (the guy that said it was similar to his 1D4 must've had a *really* bad 1D4).
greg
No, fortunately you're completely wrong Greg and I did write it "focuses beautifully" if you'd care to note that part. The AF system in my 1Dmk4 was duff when I got it (poor effort from Canon on a brand new pro body). I sent it in to CPS, who replaced the entire AF system, tested it and said it was working 100% and it does. Focus tracking for sports is stellar.
I suspect that if you've had a 7D and couldnt get it to focus accurately and consistantly it was a duff 7D. I had one of those. It focused like a drunk trying to pass a sobriety test. The replacement 7D can nail focus at 8fps in servo shot after shot. When Canonfieldfieldreviews (now defunct since he went to the Dark Side) tested the 7D, he was very impressed. I think he used a 300mm f/2.8L IS. Test subject was a golden retriever running straight at him and IIRC the 7D nailed 7/8 shots. I wouldn't buy a heavy old brick to replace a 7D if it cost £100 and had never been out of its box. Well I might just so i could sell it. I prefer a modern brick
As always, YMMV. It's down to personal preference and from what I've seen above this is quite an emotive topic!
This is the camera that i'm holding onto because it's just one of the best.
Sure you get other features in newer cams, I have these cams. But you can't go past the price.
Think carefully what you're giving up. I mean what you actually use and like, go from there.
jj_glos wrote:
As I understand it the AF in the 1Ds2 is the same as the 1D2n, it is actually alluded to that the AF in the 1Ds2 is at an advantage as it doesn't have to work at 8fps... In my experience the 7D holds up very well to the 1Ds2, this is for various uses from children playing with AI Servo and the lens wide open (f1.4-f1.8), to motorsports, airshows, football and rugby. BiF I have not done enough to really comment on, but I haven't noticed a huge difference there either with the limited shooting I have done.
You are right, 1DsMkII and 1DMkIIN Servo AF performance is similar, perhaps one could even say identical. ( The problem with 1DsMkII is that it starts to choke up after a burst of 10 shots or such, which does affect its action tracking performance .)
After I'had given up on trying to get 7D to AF on incoming pijuns in flight, I turned to bigger and slower targets: seagulls. Unfortunately, by that time I lost my 1DMkIIN so I had to continue the 7D tests against 1DsMkII on incoming seagulls in flight.
The typical test shot was as shown on the image below (1DsMkII + 200 f/2 IS wide open). Although seagulls normally fly much slower than pijuns, thus the test was much easier, 7D exibited more erratic focusing than 1DsMkII.
The very last thing I tried was the central zone auto AF selection on 7D on some fast flyby and head-on targets. (All prior tests were done with center AF point selected + expansion.) That AF mode made the 7D performance much worse, so out of 92 frames not even one image was in acceptable focus . That really didn't come as a surprise. I was never a friend of any sort of auto AF point selection, and 7D has not changed my mind in that regard either.
So, just to put a bow on this thread, I have purchased the 1D MK2n. The seller was knowledgeable and the camera itself was in amazing shape with fewer than 6000 shutter actuations. The controls and layout will take some getting used to obviously; my movement through the Canon ranks began not with a film body but with an XTi, then the 40D before my 7D so this is clearly a whole new ball game.
Ultimately, the things that helped me decide were the ergonomics of the body, in particular with my 80-200 on it; it just felt balanced and sure in the hand. Secondly, the file sizes seem to hover around 8 mb and that has some appeal. I don't print much and I don't crop much but I shoot lots chasing my kids around on holidays and at sporting events. Day to day, I might pick up an S-100 to reclaim 1080 video capability and casual snapshots in a nice, small package. This does mean wrapping my head around the 1.3 crop too but I've already sold off most of my e-fs lenses.
At the end of the day (literally) I'd like to thank everyone for their thoughts and advice, Peter in particular for his assistance. It's funny, I've bought used lenses right from the start but always new cameras; this is the first used body I've purchased and it was damn stressful, I don't mind saying.
-Cam
Oh, and I suppose I'm in the market for a new battery or two so if anyone could recommend a reliable on-line seller I'd appreciate it. Thanks again!
onegreatcity wrote:
So, just to put a bow on this thread, I have purchased the 1D MK2n. The seller was knowledgeable and the camera itself was in amazing shape with fewer than 6000 shutter actuations.
Cam, good news, and congratulations.
The old 1D style user interface is poorly done......once you get over it, the camera is all good.
Wow I can't believe Petkal's keeper rate is so abysmal, even by manual focusing standards that seems abysmal. Maybe I need to shoot more pijun's at close range, but my overall keeper rate for a 1D II was around 85% over all servo subjects. The only area that was low was barn swallows, but that's the ultimate torture test. I'd say 7D overall gets me around 80%. My previous 20D and 40D would have averaged 40-50%.
1D IIN does have the edge in servo IMO, but you can still do very well with 7D. I couldn't never go back to that crappy low res lcd or brick like battery and I owned a 1D II for 5 1/2 years and loved it. But times move on and I have a 7D and 1D III. I D III still has low res lcd, but apart from that it's a better camera than 1D II(N) in just about every way. I would only sell 7D for 1D III, but I find them perfect compliments for birding. If I weren't in to birding then I could just live with the 1D III.
Pixel Perfect wrote:
Wow I can't believe Petkal's keeper rate is so abysmal, even by manual focusing standards that seems abysmal.
Pixie, I guess that just goes to show that I really don't know what is that I am doing.
The other reason is that most of my attempted in flight shots are of targets flying against a non-vacant background which often diverts camera AF away from the target.
In addition, I generally shoot fast lenses wide open......that tends to make inaccurate focus placement more of a problem.
Or...Either way same battery. If you have original Canon's take the few minutes to remove the caps/locks from then and put them on the Lenmars...It give a slightly better fit and retain's the "Canon look"...
? Are you kidding me? Never seen anything like that...that explains it... 