chiohkeh wrote:
Looking at the few high ISO XP1 images that appeared on Flickr and comparing them to similar 5DMKii images, I am of the mind that this camera will match or even outdo some FF cameras as far as sharpness and color are concerned.
I know it was a bold statement when Fuji made it and I know it is still bold based on such limited information, however, when I bought my 5DMKii body new it cost me about $2500 US. This is $1700. For that quality at high ISOs i think it is worth it if most of the other features I need work well.
We have to remember that this is not a DSLR.
When people want a smaller car and they have a Family station wagon, they may pay more for the two-seat sports car. And it may be less functional being that it has less space and things of that nature. However, there is still a market for expensive sports cars that are less functional. This camera is the sports car of cameras. Less functional than the big DSLRs in some respects but very much marketable. If it wasn't this forum wouldn't be 30 some odd pages deep in the forum! And it is less than many large FF cameras.... ...Show more →
I'm starting to suspect Fuji's statement about the XP1 out resolving a 5DII was missing the important part about that being only at ISO 25,600:
"The X-Pro1 can produce usable 16-by-20-inch prints even at ISO 25,600, which is the maximum supported sensitivity. Identical images shot with the 5D Mark II showed significant noise in shadow areas, while the Sony Alpha A77 (NEX-7) produced an image that you certainly wouldn't want hanging on a wall."
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I'm starting to suspect Fuji's statement about the XP1 out resolving a 5DII was missing the important part about that being only at ISO 25,600:
"The X-Pro1 can produce usable 16-by-20-inch prints even at ISO 25,600, which is the maximum supported sensitivity. Identical images shot with the 5D Mark II showed significant noise in shadow areas, while the Sony Alpha A77 (NEX-7) produced an image that you certainly wouldn't want hanging on a wall."
Can you please explain the significance of the ISO 25,600 comment?
I won't shoot my 5DMKII over 3200 ISO because of the noise. so having the ability to do so at higher ISOs doesnt even matter to me. Yet on Flickr Hugo Poon has X-Pro1 images up at ISO 6400. To me that is saying something.
pdmphoto wrote:
$2300 with a lens makes it a no go for me. It's a crop sensor camera, that's sure to have some growing pains.The latest Fuji and Sony APS-C cameras are making me appreciate my 5DII even more.
Assuming it performs at least as well as the X100, I'm in for an X-Pro 1 and two lenses, for starters. I also have a 1DsIII and 1DIV, yet I can still appreciate the place of 'lesser' cameras. YMMV.
I'm still mostly a base ISO guy. I see an unnatural pattern noise in the sky of NEX-7 shots (of course there is also the corner frame issues) at base ISO. I don't see the resolution I want to see in the X-Pro1 shots at base ISO. Neither camera seems to satisfy for that. High ISO for me is always <3200ISO, and my 5DII does fine for me there.
Then there is the video issue. Neither the NEX or the X-Pro1 have what I want in video quality, and both are well below the 5DII video quality.
Size/weight are important but so are lens options. Except for rangefinder lenses, the 5DII handles most very well. That makes for a huge assortment of options. I can take my Zuiko (MC) 21/3.5, Zeiss 28/2.8, Zuiko (MC) 35/2.8, Yashica 50/2, and Vivitar 90/3.5 macro - and get great FF performance in a fairly small and light package. The 21/3.5, 35/2.8, and 50/2 are smaller and lighter than most of the latest released "pancake" lenses. The Vivitar 90/3.5 isn't much larger, and it's a plastic fantastic lens, so the weight is also minimal. The Zeiss 28/2.8 is really the beast of the bunch
miloz wrote:
The Poon images are relatively small - downsized to 1100-1200 pixels on the long side. The 5D II will look pretty noiseless at that size as well.
(Which isn't to say the Fuji won't best it, but I'm not seeing the amazing performance in those images that others are.)
I tend to disagree. As an owner of a 5D MKii I am quite sure that even downsized, at ISO 6400 I would recognize not only the noise, but also a lack of detail(sharpness) and accuracy of colors.
However Hugo Poon claims to have some full size images on his PBase account. Check them out there....
Pretty sure that Hugo Poon is applying a bit of Neat Image Noise reduction.Not sure how much but that needs to be considered as well.That shot at 6400 is very clean! if that is without Neat Image NR then that is note worthy
-Jim
chiohkeh wrote:
Can you please explain the significance of the ISO 25,600 comment?
I won't shoot my 5DMKII over 3200 ISO because of the noise. so having the ability to do so at higher ISOs doesnt even matter to me. Yet on Flickr Hugo Poon has X-Pro1 images up at ISO 6400. To me that is saying something.
Only that this notion we have heard about the XP1 out resolving current FF cameras is possibly restricted only to very high ISO's. That's great..and if your into ultra high ISO shooting, very useful. At the lower ISO's, the XP1 will likely behave just like any other 16MP APS camera with regard to resolving ability and remain out gunned by 5DII, 1DsIII, D3x and A900. It just depends upon where your uses/ priorities are. For me, I want ultimate IQ which is at base ISO's. Hiigh ISO performance is something I don't really need from my FF.
pdmphoto wrote:
$2300 with a lens makes it a no go for me. It's a crop sensor camera, that's sure to have some growing pains.The latest Fuji and Sony APS-C cameras are making me appreciate my 5DII even more.
Agreed.
My 5d "classic" still gives me better results than my NEX 5N with equally good MF glass on both, so unless the new sensor on the X-Pro1 with the lack of an AA filter provides stellar results then I don't think I'll be interested at that price.
Jim Schemel wrote:
Pretty sure that Hugo Poon is applying a bit of Neat Image Noise reduction.Not sure how much but that needs to be considered as well.That shot at 6400 is very clean! if that is without Neat Image NR then that is note worthy
-Jim
Yes he does mention that in the Flickr comments, however, I still dont think my 5DMKii's images would maintain that sort of detail at that ISO even with sharpening and NR...
I have been wrong before, but I think it has the 5DMKii beat
I would never try to replace my 5DMKii with this camera, however I do think that this will be replacing my 7D which was my backup prior to this. The 7D cant touch the X-Pro1 in terms of high ISOs, however I will miss the focusing that the 7D provides if I do decide to sell it.
Found this in the comment section of a post on mirrorlessrumors.com from a guy named Steve.
"I am an X100 owner and handled one of the prototypes at CES today. My comments (prototypes though so could change):
AF is much better than the X100, a little slower than the X10 they also had on demo. Nowhere near as good as say a panasonic GX1.
The manual focus is VASTLY better than the X100. You could actually use it. I think between the improved af and the vastly improved manual focus (which was only working on a few of the prototypes they had on display) it will go a long ways to improving usability."
MF improvements would be nice. After all, all it takes is not gearing the @!$#%@ lens for macro!
But still it will only be good for wide lenses and zone focusing, to get a truly usable MF system they would need an EVF with much better res and dynamic range than the x100's and/or focus peaking. Or a rangefinder patch, either projected from the EVF or optical.
joe88 wrote:
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I respectfully disagree. The X100 was made specifically with the form factor of a smaller and more pocketable camera will nice IQ that we would want to carry around. D3s is great for everything except for its size. The AF on the X100 is really poor for some type of photography, specifically for street photography/candid scenes or for manual focus zone focusing. Simply too slow and inconsistent. Fuji clearly targeted the rangefinder and street shooter crowd with the X100 and I still applaud them bringing that camera to the market but poor AF was the reason I and many others passed on the X100. I'm really hoping that the X Pro has a much improved AF.
Anyone knows when the camera will be available for sale?...Show more →
While you and many others may have passed on the X100, the stampede to get this camera was unprecedented. It took almost 1 year from release to get a stable supply. Obviously, the vast majority of people kept the camera and are satisfied with it. There is also a huge number of people, myself included, who find the X100 perfect for street use. I have no problems at all, none, using it for street use.
rattymouse wrote:
..., the vast majority of people kept the camera and are satisfied with it. There is also a huge number of people, myself included, who find the X100 perfect for street use. I have no problems at all, none, using it for street use.
chiohkeh wrote:
...The 7D cant touch the X-Pro1 in terms of high ISOs, however I will miss the focusing that the 7D provides if I do decide to sell it.
Holy Moley! I'm looking forward to getting a first gen X-Pro 1, but I'll reserve my "better than" and "not as good as" comments until after I've actually had a chance to use one.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
It was actually stated by Fuji's Kayce Baker so it's probably correct re the 1.4. Probably will rely heavily on software corrections is my bet.
Well that is puzzling to me. Their 18mm (28 equiv) and 23mm (35 equiv) are f/2, and then they decide to make the 14mm (21 equiv) f/1.4? Not sure of the logic behind that. Personally, I would have preferred a slower lens that should be smaller with fewer aberrations; f/2.8 would have been plenty fast for me. Oh well, perhaps with software correction they will be able to produce decent results and keep it at least fairly small. I still think that will be a very big challenge, however.
jcolwell wrote:
Holy Moley! I'm looking forward to getting a first gen X-Pro 1, but I'll reserve my "better than" and "not as good as" comments until after I've actually had a chance to use one.
. Thats probably the best idea. But I feel that it is safe to say (from the looks of the images I've seen from the XP1) that my 7D won't stand a chance in an ISO contest with this camera. I'd never even attempt to shoot something at ISO 6400 or even 3200 for that matter with my 7D, yet I am seeing relatively clean images from the XP1 at both of those ISO's.
I may not have handled an XP1, but I do have eyes.... The images I've seen speak volumes.
. Thats probably the best idea. But I feel that it is safe to say (from the looks of the images I've seen from the XP1) that my 7D won't stand a chance in an ISO contest with this camera. I'd never even attempt to shoot something at ISO 6400 or even 3200 for that matter with my 7D, yet I am seeing relatively clean images from the XP1 at both of those ISO's.