jcolwell wrote:
That sounds like the feeling I got from my old manual focus Fuji GS645S Wide 60 rangefinder. It was kind of light and plasticy, but man did it take good photos! It was also extremely well built, despite its "feel". The more modern "old" AF Fuji 645 rangefinders were even worse, as far as feel and especially operating sounds goes.
As far as I'm concerned, lighter is better, especially when you consider I'll typically be toting at least two bodies and four or five lenses while using them. Right now, it's an X100 and 1DIV. I think an X100 and X-Pro 1, or two X-Pro 1, would be better in a lot of ways, as long as the IQ is there. Here's hoping... ...Show more →
I suspect the image quality will be there. Seems like we would be seeing more full size samples, as well as full reviews now that the X-pro 1 is shipping in Japan. I have not been able to find really that many full size samples on flickr and the ones I do find are just so so (probably due to the user, not camera I suspect).
Fuji 450g with battery, M9 585g with battery. I was hoping the Fuji would have the similar rock solid feel of the Leica, but sounds like it does not? I remember the old Konica Hexar RF film camera had an incredibly solid build that was as good as a Leica, and was hoping Fuji would follow suit.
Must admit to being disappointed by feel of the X100; too light for the size of the body. Makes you think the metal look is a surface cosmetic treatment rather than the camera being milled from a solid block of metal.
andrewd01 wrote:
Must admit to being disappointed by feel of the X100; too light for the size of the body. Makes you think the metal look is a surface cosmetic treatment rather than the camera being milled from a solid block of metal.
That's funny because the X100 is generally considered to have a good heft for it's size. It's smaller than an M9 and weighs just 24% less. I think the X100 has a perfect weight/ balance feel myself. The thing is, the larger X-pro 1 weighs almost exactly the same as the X100. Of course, the X100 has a built in 35/2 equiv. lens which must add quite a bit to it's weight and that's probably the main reason for the light feel of the X-pro 1 to some.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
That's funny because the X100 is generally considered to have a good heft for it's size. It's smaller than an M9 and weighs just 24% less. I think the X100 has a perfect weight/ balance feel myself. The thing is, the larger X-pro 1 weighs almost exactly the same as the X100. Of course, the X100 has a built in 35/2 equiv. lens which must add quite a bit to it's weight and that's probably the main reason for the light feel of the X-pro 1 to some.
My own personal opinion of course. I am biased by having owned Leica M6 and M9. I sold the M9 because I couldn't get consistently good results with it, main issues being difficulties achieving framing, accurate focus and accurate metering (not saying the camera cant achieve these, but it takes a lot more work imo). I will wait to make a final conclusion about the X-Pro1 after handling it myself. I really like the idea of hybrid VF that can be used when framing is critical (close subjects). Love the design, looks and ergonomics of the camera.
obviously this is a matter of preference, but I dont use neck straps and sometimes I walk around with my camera in hand for hours. I know from experience that a film leica M feels a bit uncomfortable like that after a while, so bit less weight and a bit more grip is welcome by me. Bessa was my ideal handholding camera.
I too found the X100 to be rather light in the hand, but with the leather case I had on the camera it balanced fairly well.
I also had one of the Fuji rangefinders (The GW670III) which was totally plastic feeling but had an outstanding lens on there and produced amazing negatives. However, it was somewhat distracting that such a physically large camera was so light weight. I couldn't get over it and ultimately parted ways with it.
I'd have to handle the XP1 before I make any conclusions.
Spyro P. wrote:
obviously this is a matter of preference, but I dont use neck straps and sometimes I walk around with my camera in hand for hours. I know from experience that a film leica M feels a bit uncomfortable like that after a while, so bit less weight and a bit more grip is welcome by me. Bessa was my ideal handholding camera.
That's what I do as well - wrist strap, camera in hand. The weight to size thing is definitely a subjective subject. I guess the point is that if you think the X100 is light, that will likely go doubly so for the X Pro-1 based on reactions thus far. Some may find this a negative, some may see it as a positive...and some may not care one way or the other.
Fortunately there is a solution to lack of heft, for the X-Pro1 at least: slap one of my Zeiss M lenses up front, instant camera heft.
Actually I'm being serious - I hated the NEX-5N feel out of the packaging but with a ZM lens mounted it felt just fine.
Mmmmm, metal!
I understand the comments about carrying in hand for extended periods. The X100 was good for that based on weight alone, yet I felt the NEX-5N even with a ZM optic mounted was more comfortable thanks to the grip.
Using a wrist strap of course just in case, I could curl my fingers a bit and the camera would balance on the tips nicely even with a relatively heavy ZM lens on it. For me I find the nature of the grip (or lack thereof) can make a big difference regardless of weight.
Well they are going to have that accessory grip, we should take that into consideration. It does look to add a good amount of grip to the front of the camera. May even balance it out better. I know when I had my Bessa R2 I really enjoyed having the trigger winder on the camera more than off, even if I didn't use the winder portion, it just balanced out the camera quite nicely.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I have been reading that a few people who have handled it found the lenses had a rather cheap and plasticy feel and the body did not quite feel as premium/ substantial as they thought it would (perhaps it's lighter than it's size would lead one to believe). This coming from happy X100 users really makes me wonder about the camera.
That was my impression of the X100 - looked great in photos, was slightly disappointing in hand because one could see that the fit and finish wasn't quite what the photos implied. My impression from the various Fuji videos for the XP1 (such as the Fuji Guys) with the way they handled the lenses, was that they're plastic and very light for their size... but then, for the price, can one expect much different?
rscheffler wrote:
My impression from the various Fuji videos for the XP1 (such as the Fuji Guys) with the way they handled the lenses, was that they're plastic and very light for their size... but then, for the price, can one expect much different?
I think if the lenses have a "cheap" feel to them, it is a big deal for Fuji since the system itself is marketed to a pretty discerning group. The body itself, at $1700 U.S., is rather expensive and one would expect the lenses to be at the same level of build. If neither exude confidence in build quality, I think Fuji will have a problem.
All this said, when I first held a pre-production X100 I was disappointed in the build quality but when I ended up actually buying and using one much later, the build quality felt much better. I will say that I have owned three X100's over the past six months (I own none at the moment) and I did notice a slightly different feel to how easy it was to move the shutter dial and exp. comp dial on them. One was more rigid and confidence inspiring, the other two moved a little more easily. This difference was subtle but noticeable.
michaelwatkins wrote:
I understand the comments about carrying in hand for extended periods. The X100 was good for that based on weight alone, yet I felt the NEX-5N even with a ZM optic mounted was more comfortable thanks to the grip.
Using a wrist strap of course just in case, I could curl my fingers a bit and the camera would balance on the tips nicely even with a relatively heavy ZM lens on it. For me I find the nature of the grip (or lack thereof) can make a big difference regardless of weight.
Just out of curiosity, did you use a Thumbs UP on the X100? For me, it made a huge difference to the cameras one handed grip-ability/ ergonomics.
I dont know, quality is certainly welcome but I wouldnt want it to result in redundant overengineering. After all these are digital cameras, in 5-10 years time half of them will be landfill and the other half decorative paperweights.
I managed to destroy my x100's shutter button assembly, because I had a soft release on and it must've got caught somewhere, one day i opened the bag and it was springs and washers everywhere. I had a look inside the gaping hole where the assembly used to be and I noticed that the base was plastic - and broken. Would I prefer it to be metal? Nah.
I didnt mind overengineering in film leicas, it made sense: these cameras were typically kept, serviced (and used!) for 50-100 years. On an x100 or even a digital leica it would feel to me as an unecessary waste of resources and money. At the end of the day if the designer wanted to make the camera heavier I'd rather they used something useful like a gigantic battery instead of a brass casing.
Spyro P. wrote:
I dont know, quality is certainly welcome but I wouldnt want it to result in redundant overengineering. After all these are digital cameras, in 5-10 years time half of them will be landfill and the other half decorative paperweights.
I managed to destroy my x100's shutter button assembly, because I had a soft release on and it must've got caught somewhere, one day i opened the bag and it was springs and washers everywhere. I had a look inside the gaping hole where the assembly used to be and I noticed that the base was plastic - and broken. Would I prefer it to be metal? Nah.
I didnt mind overengineering in film leicas, it made sense: these cameras were typically kept, serviced (and used!) for 50-100 years. On an x100 or even a digital leica it would feel to me as an unecessary waste of resources and money. At the end of the day if the designer wanted to make the camera heavier I'd rather they used something useful like a gigantic battery instead of a brass casing....Show more →
Well, that's disappointing about the X100 shutter button. That does bother me and I'm one who would prefer the metal (or some better engineered material that will not crack/ break), particularly when I pay a premium for a more expensive camera like the X-pro 1. I guess I like to feel that I can trust the camera to not fall apart in my hands or bag when it's time to use it.
I actually asked the crowd in RFF if it had happened to anyone else, and a couple of people said their technicians had warned them not to use soft releases as they are known to cause such problems, even on leicas. Maybe not a complete fall apart like my x100 but problems nonetheless.
The conclusion in typical RFF kindness and style was that I was guilty of a self inflicted injury
Spyro P. wrote:
I actually asked the crowd in RFF if it had happened to anyone else, and a couple of people said their technicians had warned them not to use soft releases as they are known to cause such problems, even on leicas. Maybe not a complete fall apart like my x100 but problems nonetheless.
I am not sure I understand how using metal vs plastic can make $1000+ camera any more expensive. Is it cost of material, or cost of production? Somehow they manage to make $5 all-metal lens adapters in China...
