p.17 #1 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
freaklikeme wrote:
Agreed, and I think it extends beyond lenses to dedicated system accessories as well. At this time, no other photographic system is as well-supported by the industry as the DSLR.
Sure, but I think the point here is that many of us don't need all of it. It is similar to someone recommending only Canon DSLRs because they have the most lenses, when one may only need 3 or 4 at most, no matter which system they're using. Most pro studio and fine art photographers that I've been around shoot only a few lenses, and they aren't carrying around a photo arsenal, but I don't spend much time around sports or wildlife photographers, so I realize that people have different needs.
p.s. of course, this is the alt. forum, and I do buy many lenses of the same focal length for fun, but I usually stick to my main 3 lenses for most uses.
My CV 28/3.5 killed the nikon 28/3.5 PC today---could be my focus, but I did take quite a few shots and the latter could never come close. When the background is closer the edges on the CV 28 seem fine--its when you go way out they don't seem to keep up--but again now I'm starting to shoot more at f/8
p.17 #3 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
I've noticed that once you correct with the Lightroom profile the most offensive of corners get clipped out anyway..the 16, in my very very limited use, is not a great lens..but it's also not as bad as I thought it would be. It is however slow for me...and the nex flash from my tests so far is really really bad. That said I'm a flash moron, so it could absolutely be me...but even turned down..not good. I may try to auto everything with the flash in a party setting and see what the results are like for those just shooting as a pas.
p.17 #4 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
h00ligan wrote:
I've noticed that once you correct with the Lightroom profile the most offensive of corners get clipped out anyway..the 16, in my very very limited use, is not a great lens..but it's also not as bad as I thought it would be.
It's funny, my 16 shot terrible outdoors today at f/4: it could not focus. But it was close enough to see major fuzz in corners. At f/8 it was shooting "sharp" and corners were almost clear, and at f/16 the corners were seemingly fine! All without lens correction. And it was decently "sharp" at mid distance anyway. A ZM18 it's not. I don't know what is shooting so sharp at 16 or less. Maybe the CV 12 is kicking butt now. But the Sony I just find unpredictable, so I shoot with varied aperture and focus points.
p.17 #5 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
freaklikeme wrote:
...I read Carsten's point, in context of a thread titled "Giving up 5D II for NEX?," to be that you need to consider the future of the system you're using before making a major change like switching from a full-frame to one of the mirrorless wonders for the sake of minor IQ improvements. Assuming that was his point, he's right. Unless you have a low investment in your current system, or have loads of free time and cash, making that kind of change is an expensive, time consuming process that is equal parts rewarding and frustrating, and not to be taken lightly, given what you'd have to do to reverse the decision. So there should be more than just that motivation, because it's likely your chosen line will surpass the NEX in IQ on the next release. Augmenting your gear to include the NEX is an entirely different matter....Show more →
Definitely a good point. For now I'm mostly using "inexpensive" lenses on my NEX (much cheaper than my Canon L glass) and I'm finding it to be quite good actually.
The beauty of mirrorless systems is that if you using MF glass you don't have to buy into a "system", like you do with Canon or Nikon or Pentax. The Canon FD, Zuiko, Nikon and Zeiss glass that I'm currently using on my NEX will conceivably work on any mirrorless body, with the proper adapter, so if Fuji releases a brilliant mirrorless FF camera (in my dreams ) then I don't have to sell all of my glass, its just the body that changes.
Using the NEX has been my first successful foray into MF glass. I've tried it with my 5d, and even with the EE-S screen I just find it too hit or miss, plus stop down metering is for the birds.
With the NEX EVF with focus peaking and magnified view in addition to seeing the exposure live is a true game changer. Plus, I'm able to use a huge cache of MF lenses that are impossible to use on my 5d due to mirror clearance issues.
I did some comparisons today between my NEX 5N and my 5D which some may find interesting....(these are not "tests" per se, but rather comparisons using both systems as I would "in the wild")....
- APS-C sensors have come a long way since the days of the 5d.
- For outdoor shooting the NEX is good enough for me unless I really want a true fast and wide lens.
- For indoor shooting or in low light I still prefer the 5D so far. I like to shoot jpeg (shoot me) and I still prefer the high ISO output of the 5D over the NEX; the NEX applies too much smearing of detail at high ISO for my taste, even with NR set at its lowest setting. Plus, the colors indoors seem better with the 5D to me so far. I love the outdoor colors of the NEX though and I prefer to shoot it in jpeg as the colors straight out of the camera are better than I can get in LR when processing a RAW file for some reason.
- For focusing MF glass I much prefer the NEX. Manual focusing with the NEX is a breeze and I get more keepers with MF on the NEX than I do using AF with my 5D or my 550D (for stationary subects).
- I love the auto-ISO on the NEX.
- I want a FF mirrorless camera.
The 5D is still such a capable camera though, after all these years. The malleability of the files is still amazing and the "pop" and contrast are really still impressive. I still find something like this difficult to achieve with the NEX. This is with the 50 1.8 on the 5d....
p.17 #6 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
uhoh7 wrote:
It's funny, my 16 shot terrible outdoors today at f/4: it could not focus. But it was close enough to see major fuzz in corners. At f/8 it was shooting "sharp" and corners were almost clear, and at f/16 the corners were seemingly fine! All without lens correction. And it was decently "sharp" at mid distance anyway. A ZM18 it's not. I don't know what is shooting so sharp at 16 or less. Maybe the CV 12 is kicking butt now. But the Sony I just find unpredictable, so I shoot with varied aperture and focus points.
I was thinking its because I don't know what I'm doing but nex 5n af seems awful to be so far.
Michael, thanks for your comparisons..but I h ave to ask one question. When you shoot do you consider the dof...because while you may have similar iso and as, the dof between the nex and 5d is apparent? So would you be shooting at say, f4 ideally on the 5d? If so then you'd want to open up the 5n no?
Smething that was a bit odd today, I am getting crazy noise. I wonder if I tripped something.
Also, I assume there is no way to do the hdr without native lenses?
I need to go find those nokton 1.2 shots in the picture thread..lthe one thing I need is something shorter and faster..it's killing my use right now.. 2.8 @42mm is not good enough... I don't know if the Ultron would be either...
p.17 #7 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
h00ligan wrote:
....Michael, thanks for your comparisons..but I h ave to ask one question. When you shoot do you consider the dof...because while you may have similar iso and as, the dof between the nex and 5d is apparent? So would you be shooting at say, f4 ideally on the 5d? If so then you'd want to open up the 5n no?...
True, but my 35 flek only opens up to f/2.4.
Again, I'm just comparing how I would typically use each system in the real world.
p.17 #9 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
well the 35 flek is just killing the sigmalux outside--YOW. My first skim I didn't realise you were also using a 5D--and I was thinking, jeez no comparison between those lenses
Indoors the 5n is not liking the 24L so much.
@hOOL HDR works wth any lens, but only jpeg. Fast glass is pretty fun. Cheapest are the Canons FL thru nFD with some exceptions of course. If you have money any don't care about size, I suspect the nFD 50/1.2 L @ around 600 is the best money can buy--I don't have one, but studied up a bit. The FL 55/1.2 can be had for under 200, but I'd get the non-L nFD 50/1.2 for around 200 because its so light.
A clean Canon LTM 50/1.2 is a beautiful thing, and they do pop up at RFF for around 500 from time to time, but last about 15 minutes. Most of them have some haze or scratches (no biggie on front--but deadly on rear element), so people don't think they can be at all sharp. It's just not the case. http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6044/6236501633_4bb6ee56e1_b.jpg
they will swirl, which some don't care for, but I love it. Usually you need leaves for that http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5069/5599238262_15665e9081_z.jpg
345 grams Its not a rare lens, nearly 50,000 made.
again, the un-wowed will shudder at such insanity--but real people are just astounded by this behavior--and I agree with them At f/2 it bokehs just like a summicron, so you do have some control. It is very sharp at a meter, useless at infinity. And despite all explosions--it never swirls!
This is really the comeback from the nex to the 5D and it's DOF/FOV: "Oh REALLY? Let's see your work with the classics..." And the nex renders very true to character despite the crop---sans grain of course. It's no wonder the 5D people are so crazy about the helios 40. It's as close as they can get to the primogenitors and their quirky brilliance.
p.17 #11 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
uhoh7 wrote:
This is really the comeback from the nex to the 5D and it's DOF/FOV: "Oh REALLY? Let's see your work with the classics..." And the nex renders very true to character despite the crop---sans grain of course.
shoot at iso 6400, convert to b&w, jack up the clarity. looks just like the classic sonnar it is on tri-X.
p.17 #15 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
Uhoh, in deference to your opinion, I did two control shots this morning, of my ZM 18 and my 16mm pancake. I then cropped to bring the two images roughly to the same dimension. The ZM was focused manually to where the AF selected to focus the Sony. The shots were tripod based. Obviously the settings are different, because the difference in FL caused the camera to expose differently. Also, because I did the two shots without turning off the camera, EXIF for the second (Zeiss lens) shot still registers Sony 16mm (?).
Upon looking at the two pics, I am satisfied with my opinion that the Sony does not reach my minimal requirement for quality, and that the ZM comfortably exceeds it. This, in itself, is not damnation of the Sony, in light of the huge cost gap.
Obviously, we all wish for lenses, that are as small, light and inexpensive as the Sony pancake, and have performance like the Zeiss, but I don't see any sign that such a hallowed situation is anywhere in coming. And, of course, an APS-C sensor makes that harder than for all the mirrorless designs that use smaller ones (M 4/3, Nikon, Pentax). From there on, it is the land of compromises, which each one of us tailors to his/her preferences. The Sony 16mm just happens to fall outside mine.
p.17 #17 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
The shots look great. But 63mm...
I'd really like an indoor lens. And that's just too long. I like the contax g 45/2, though I'd probably roach it with the oly. The 28,2.8 is a good lens but not right for me,
I'm guessing the cv 35/1.2 is about the best a 24 1.8 that isn't the unavailable Seuss would be good.
I'm not thrilled with the noise at ISO 1600 so really want f2 or faster
p.17 #18 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
h00ligan wrote:
The shots look great. But 63mm...
I'd really like an indoor lens. And that's just too long. I like the contax g 45/2, though I'd probably roach it with the oly. The 28,2.8 is a good lens but not right for me,
I'm guessing the cv 35/1.2 is about the best a 24 1.8 that isn't the unavailable Seuss would be good.
I'm not thrilled with the noise at ISO 1600 so really want f2 or faster
I haven't seen enOugh of the 28/1.9 or 2
You can't really do much better than the ZM 35/2. The only reason I returned mine is that I split my 35mm shooting into two smaller lenses, the CV 35/1.4 and ZM 35/2.8, depending on what I'm doing, and the copy I bought had a loose front element. I may try to buy another copy of the ZM 35/2 next year.
p.17 #19 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
I do hear the CV 28 ultron is really good, 1.9 or the newer 2
28 is a really good FL on the nex. They pop up for around 400--the zm35 had to be pricey, no?
I'd love to have a ZM 18--but 1300--OMG. It's pretty close my little 21 skopar, which I'm realizing is a superb lens. I might have to break down and get a 15 or 12 heliar---since you guys are forcing me to squint alot at my poor sony 16
p.17 #20 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
The ZM 35/2 is a little pricey, but not when you consider the 35 Summicron Asph, which is probably the only other reasonably sized 35mm that is in the same IQ ballpark.
) then I don't have to sell all of my glass, its just the body that changes.
