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Archive 2011 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6

  
 
skibum5
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p.3 #1 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


RustyBug wrote:
Not so sure that the 'demise' of Adobe would reinvigorate things ... it might make for a Wild West, Gold Rush for all the other players to race to develop things to become the "New Adobe". Exciting times, probably ... more cohesive industry, hmmmm.

While $70 might be a bit on the low side, I agree that they could absolutely strangle their competition via market share dominance if they would get their PS pricing more in line with their LR pricing ... something like $179 for LR & $249 for PS ... with a bundle priced @ $389.

Then, make
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I was always surprised that the Windows world always tended to price anything other than a 100% pure game so often at basic production house, large company pricing levels even though they had such a larger user base than say the old Amiga or Atari, etc. systems. There would be some rendering package on one of those prices so an average user could well afford it and then when the eventually would decide to port to Windows, despite the by then far, FAR larger user base for Windows, they would also invariably price the Windows version 4-20x higher. I guess they felt that Windows was used in more large scale environments and their eyes would bug out when they saw what they might be able to charge. I wonder how it really balanaces out in the end. I did notice that some of the products had sold for many years at user pricing and that some of the companies went out of business in less years than they had survived with user-level pricing and a far smaller market.

In some cases the products did eventually become far more sophisticated and certainly at places like Adobe the development teams are vastly larger but I always did wonder why hardly any company ever released any non- way crippled down non-game software for the vast Windows market at user pricing.

I also find it interesting that despite having a far smaller user base that there seemed to be so many more average users doing home rendering and discussing this or that technical aspect back in the day than there seem to be today despite the truly immense Windows user base. Or maybe it's just that there are more in raw numbers today but they are such a vanishingly smaller percentage of the user base that they simply get drowned out compared to back then.





Nov 15, 2011 at 01:24 PM
skibum5
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p.3 #2 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


wickerprints wrote:
I said "reinvigorate," not "more cohesive." Increased competition makes for more consumer choice. Not necessarily all those choices will be better, but it certainly will have an effect on product pricing as competitors will seek out niches that are not being adequately served. New technologies and features would be offered, as well as more flexible pricing. Consumers may not actually appreciate those choices, as it may become confusing to decide what to use, and deal with issues of software interoperability, but I would imagine that for most small business owners, these problems are preferable to having no choice but to
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while you could be wrong, I have a sneaking suspicion you are right

(I suppose some things like premiere pro simply couldn't get down to $70 due to all the format licensing but all the same, whatever the number, i get your point)



Nov 15, 2011 at 01:27 PM
15Bit
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p.3 #3 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


wickerprints wrote:
I'm not sure you realize just how expensive some of those applications I mentioned actually are. A single-user professional license for Mathematica is nearly $2500. That blows the entire CS5 Premium out of the water at a mere $1900, and you get several apps for that price. A Mathematica site license costs a few orders of magnitude more.


To add to that - i'm currently "negotiating" with a supplier about an upgrade to some software we use. They want 2500 euros (plus tax) to upgrade our existing version to the same version number but with Win 7 support. That is at heavily discounted academic prices, and also doesn't include the copy protection dongles we need to replace with the upgrade.



Nov 15, 2011 at 03:38 PM
Brit-007
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p.3 #4 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


I think the real problem is that photoshop was originally designed for graphic designers and with photography going digital, it was the only product in town that could do an image justice.

Here we are years later and there is obviously something going on at Adobe whether it is short of funds or whatever. They are currently trying to push the use of lightroom for photographers but there are still lots of photographers that are so proficient with photoshop that there is no point in changing.

I switched over to Mac several years ago and although I was on the beta testing for lightroom, could never get on with it. I just find Adobe's way of working too cumberson. I tried Aperture and found it to be as good and so much more user friendly. Yes, I do shoot the occasional image out to photoshop, do adjustments then roundtrip back.

Getting back to the real meat. Pixelmator is an image company and they have just released their new version. I am considering taking a look at it as it is $29 and is available in the App store which means that it can legally go on up to 5 machines. I do not think it is quite up to the capability of photoshop by any means but it may be quite adequate for the needs of photographers. It does do layers.

I think Adobe really needs to look at where it wants to be and what range of customers it wants to support or rather sell to because real product support costs additional money.



Nov 15, 2011 at 03:41 PM
anthonygh
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p.3 #5 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


Adobe is acting much the same as most other photographic related industries......it hasn't realized that the 'good times' have ended for many of its customer base......it thinks they are still there, and customers can still be fleeced on a regular basis.

What is really needed is for photographers at all levels to do a serious stock take on what they really need to pursue their interests. A 5d2 is nice....but what if one had to 'make do' with a 60D? Would photography be that much less enjoyable? Of profitable for many pros?

An eye opener for me was buying two new printers, a Canon pro9000 and R2880. I use the canon to produce prints from studio sessions; I use OCP inks and Ilford Pearl. The prints look great and cost relatively little. I bought a R2880 to give 'better quality' prints where appropriate...using OEM materials. Each print is several times more expensive...doesn't look any better...and isn't appreciated more by models.

To cap it all, prints from my old R1800 still look as good as those from the new Canon.

Sorry I rambled a bit...but I do think photographers bring a lot of this on themselves by chasing the latest gear / upgrade / whatever. It will be interesting to see what happens now this seems less and less viable for many of us.

(It never was for me )



Nov 15, 2011 at 05:06 PM
dalek53
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p.3 #6 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


Thanks Bill for the original posting. One factor for me in thinking about whether to upgrade from CS4 to 5 now with the discount is is what CS 6 is likely to bring. I saw the deblurring video. Anyone know anything else that is likely to come?


Nov 15, 2011 at 05:25 PM
DanBrown
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p.3 #7 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


dalek53 wrote:
Anyone know anything else that is likely to come?


Anyone who knows the answer to this question is likely under a nondisclosure agreement.

If Adobe follows their recent past practice, they will probably have a public beta, however.




Nov 15, 2011 at 05:56 PM
skibum5
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p.3 #8 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


dalek53 wrote:
Thanks Bill for the original posting. One factor for me in thinking about whether to upgrade from CS4 to 5 now with the discount is is what CS 6 is likely to bring. I saw the deblurring video. Anyone know anything else that is likely to come?


One would hope GPU accel for most of the filters and everything, but who knows. It might speed things a ton, if they did so fully. They might not want to go CUDA or be able to do everything with pure graphics shaders and maybe OpenCL hadn't come along enough, etc. Who knows.
I would hope.
Otherwise it seems hard to image anything too special. All they have shown is some GUI tinkering and a potential for deblur.
Who knows though.



Nov 15, 2011 at 08:01 PM
abqnmusa
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p.3 #9 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


I will find at alternative to Photoshop before CS5 is no longer usable.
Adobe Bloatware CS5



Nov 22, 2011 at 05:02 PM
jamesf99
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p.3 #10 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


Adobe's policy is designed to change their fundamental business model.

For those wondering if Adobe cares about its customers, they don't. They're in business to make money and we're nothing but a line on the spreadsheet. Anyone that thinks differently is kidding themselves. We may have had loyalty to Adobe (12-13 years for me), but they have none to their customers. You are a number, nothing more.

As anyone that has been paying attention knows, there is NO other competitive solution available today (and Corel, Raw Therapee, C1, Gimp, et. al. are not going to do it). These other quasi-solutions, are less effective, compromised, come with far fewer features, etc. None will effectively use layered PSD files, smart objects, etc. (unless something came out last night while I was sleeping). Adobe knows this; they bought the competition with an eye to become a monopoly (something all corporations are striving to achieve).

Make no mistake about their plans either. This *IS* the warning shot across the bow. Their subscription model is their idea for the future, and CS6 is the transition period, not CS7 or CS8. Adobe wants to turn their software into a perpetual (or at least known) revenue stream. They don't want to tie their fate to their own ability to offer new, useful, features or improvements, they want a guaranteed income even if they don't offer anything new (and I read Adobe admitted the deblur demo was faked). Their desired model will prevent you from dropping them because the day your subscription runs out, the software shuts off leaving you unable to edit your files.

The notion of selling photoshop for $70 is untenable. Any business would prefer to have 10 customers paying $100 each compared to 100 customers paying $10 each, and this is key. Additional benefits (to Adobe) include:

1) Adobe will effectively be able to reduce their support costs (dropping all old software and customers as well as support personnel).

2) They eliminate all manufacturing/distribution costs since you don't get a box.

3) they will completely kill the "resale" market (you've always been able to resell your copies).

4) they eliminate piracy when you can only run their software while logged on to their site (say goodbye to working "untethered' in the studio like I did for 3 years).

5) They eliminate the middle man. No more discounting the software to a retail vendor (e.g., instead of getting $350 for PS when they sell it to Newegg, Frys, Amazon, et,. al, they get $700 because no one else has the right to carry it). They can lose 50% of their retail customers and make the same amount of money.

I wish there was an alternative today, but it's pretty simple; Adobe is a near monopoly and wants their customers held hostage. Monopolies are NEVER good for customers, and we find ourselves in a world where there is less and less competition everywhere (cell phones, stores, you name it, the world is shrinking). And no, no savior will magically appear; the barriers to entry are too high and Adobe knows it. No one is going to write 20 years of development code in 6 months, or even 2-3 years. Many of us are over a barrel and Adobe knows it.

Personally, I've upgraded every time since 5.0, and have purchased/owned multiple copies of both Design and Web Premium suites simultaneously. I may get CS6, but I'm done. I will never pay Adobe for a subscription. Adobe knows this, and has already factored in the loss of x% of their customers (see 5 above); in the meantime, they will raise the price to more than cover any losses.



Nov 23, 2011 at 12:04 PM
DanBrown
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p.3 #11 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


jamesf99 wrote:
4) they eliminate piracy when you can only run their software while logged on to their site (say goodbye to working "untethered' in the studio like I did for 3 years).


You've actually included two issues in one item. I don't know what effect subscriptions will have on piracy, but you are incorrect in stating that you must be online with Adobe to use the software under the subscription model. Only infrequent connection is required when the software "phones home" to check the license status. In Adobe's FAQ's on the subscription model; they specifically address the connectivity issue:

Subscription editions of Creative Suite software are installed locally on your computer, just like regular Creative Suite products. The functionality of a subscription edition is no different from that of the regular product. You do not need to be online constantly to use your Creative Suite subscription. However, you will need to be online when you install and license your software, and at least once every 30 days thereafter. The software will alert you when you need to connect to the Internet for a license status check.



Nov 23, 2011 at 02:53 PM
Sharona
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p.3 #12 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


Scott Kelby apparently has appealed to Adobe in an open letter, in case no one has seen it:

http://bit.ly/rAKTji



Nov 23, 2011 at 04:05 PM
jamesf99
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p.3 #13 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


DanBrown wrote:
You've actually included two issues in one item. I don't know what effect subscriptions will have on piracy, but you are incorrect in stating that you must be online with Adobe to use the software under the subscription model. Only infrequent connection is required when the software "phones home" to check the license status. In Adobe's FAQ's on the subscription model; they specifically address the connectivity issue:



My mistake on the connection. It may not be tomorrow, but if they go "cloud" as they really want to, it will be a full time connect situation. No more stand alone boxes. I didn't want my work machine connected to the internet. I didn't care about upgrades, viruses, email, etc. it was a dedicated workstation (actually, more than one workstation in the studio was not connected). We'll lose that ability.

The anti-piracy was combined because that is part of the SAS (software as service) model for full time connections...



Nov 23, 2011 at 05:08 PM
wickerprints
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p.3 #14 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


Look at what happened to games to see how this would play out (no pun intended).

In the earliest days, games had no copy protection to speak of. People just copied them at will.

Then, you had things like doc checks and dongles, and other protection measures that involved writing bad sectors to a specific location on the floppy (just revealed my age there) and making the software check for that. Pirates cracked the software so they wouldn't have to deal with these annoyances.

Copy protection didn't really evolve beyond this until the ubiquity of the internet made it possible to verify legitimate copies over a network connection. The pirates cracked those schemes, too.

The next step was to make that connectivity persistent as a function of the game, via online multiplayer interactivity, so that the main draw of playing the game was to be online with others. Cracking the game became problematic because you might have your account banned if you were discovered, or the server would push periodic updates to detect and disable cracked copies.

Now, let me unequivocally state that Creative Suite is not going to turn into Warcraft (though that might be amusing to see). But the point is that subscription-based licensing is not impervious to circumvention. The more annoyances and restrictions the software developer places on legitimate users, the more they will be pushed toward cracking the copy they own so that they can get their work done. Until the day that Adobe starts putting all of Photoshop's functionality on their servers and running PS on your computer really means accessing image processing algorithms remotely, people will still crack the software--even legitimate copies. That's because once you remove the restrictions, you have something that is MORE functional and BETTER than before.

Copy protection punishes compliance and rewards disobedience. Yes, cracking is illegal if you didn't buy the software. Most EULAs prohibit cracking even if you did buy a copy. But violating a EULA isn't (or shouldn't be) a crime. If you want to mitigate piracy, make your software reasonably priced and don't screw over your PAYING CUSTOMERS like Adobe is doing.



Nov 23, 2011 at 06:12 PM
skibum5
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p.3 #15 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


wickerprints wrote:
Look at what happened to games to see how this would play out (no pun intended).

In the earliest days, games had no copy protection to speak of. People just copied them at will.

Then, you had things like doc checks and dongles, and other protection measures that involved writing bad sectors to a specific location on the floppy (just revealed my age there) and making the software check for that. Pirates cracked the software so they wouldn't have to deal with these annoyances.

Copy protection didn't really evolve beyond this until the ubiquity of the internet made it possible to verify legitimate
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UBISOFT has gone completely mental. Some of their recent games phone home a few times a second or at least every couple seconds! Utterly disgusting. And as soon as they go out of business forget every playing your game again. And one of their older ones only allowed three calls home and after a couple windows crashes poof! And the rip-off artists refuse to answer emails for months now about getting a new key!

And you should see how sales for some of these sorts of games are tanking these days even one long awaited, highly reviewed game, from another company, tanked in sales the other year because people spread the word how nasty the protection was. All it does it make the people who buy it not be able to play it and then have to go risk virus hunting for cracks and the way sales have started to tank on some of the worst protected games seems to me to be a far worse loss than ever would've had with a more fair install.

granted ti can be a complex issue



Nov 24, 2011 at 02:58 AM
skibum5
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p.3 #16 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


One of the dumbest moves is when the studios banned 24bit playback of blu-rays discs on PCs over analog connections out of some utterly insane fear that people would bus snoop so they could copy 24bit movie tracks to pass around the net. So all those people who think 128 bitrate mp3 sounded great were going to care that they could only bus snoop 16bit/48kHZ masters instead of 24it/48+ tracks?? Seriously? And since they could even more easily just copy the entire disc plus video it just makes no sense.

And yet anyone who bought the disc and has high quality PC audio card can't use it for 24bits or >48khz! And some of those people then dig around for solutions and probably get introduced to stuff like AnyDVD and then non-standard players, etc.

Just madness, no legit customer can with any ease at all use the discs they paid for properly and yet they have perhaps stopped a grand total of maybe a single instance of piracy and yet perhaps introduced thousands or even tens and tens of thousands to that.

madness.
people say the bigwigs aren't tech savvy and the lawyers want jobs so they think up all this nonsense like the 24bit rule just as busywork to get paid, ridiculous



Nov 24, 2011 at 03:11 AM
williamkazak
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p.3 #17 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


WoW! Awesome discussion here. Makes me feel like a noobie. I am using Photoshop CS3 and Lightroom2 with a pair of Nikon D300 bodies. I shoot RAW and I need LR to work weddings and events. LR2 is great for tweaking exposures and changing the colors with the sliders before exporting to JPG in sRGB. (The Nikon software was too slow and buggy for me so I removed it).
If I get a newer camera, then I will be probably be screwed unless I upgrade Adobe Camera Raw. That would be a reason for me to get a LR upgrade. Otherwise, I don't see LR as a program that does much more than what I need as far as using the sliders for exposure tweaks, some color modifications and an occassional dust spotting. As LR goes to LR3 and LR4, I might see something else I would like to do with the program but right now I have not seen that. Honestly, I don't know anyone who uses over 35% of Photoshop's abilities. I certainly do not and I took courses. I agree that keeping Photoshop affordable, perhaps thru Elements, would keep the price down and most Photoshop users happy since they are not using Photoshop to the max anyway and never will. Some of you sound, to me, like you are full blown users of Photoshop but I would really like to know how you can "keep up" with the learning curves necessary to utilize all of Photoshop's latest possibilities? You need Photoshop upgrades as they come out? Doubt it, except for ACR, of course.
I enjoyed Kelby's letter to Adobe. I have always bought his books. Did you see his gear list? What a tool he has become.



Nov 26, 2011 at 11:39 AM
anthonygh
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p.3 #18 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


I suspect (smart as Adobe engineers are) that any subscription / phone home type software will be quickly cracked by even smarter geeks...and the crack rapidly made available to all.

But for those not contemplating piracy or an Orwellian PS future, the solution is simple...refuse to bite....stick with CS5 / LR3 (or the next upgrade if still reasonable). Once it's income stream dries up, Adobe will instantly knock its Big brother ideas on the head.

The customer really could be king with a little collective action and mutual support!



Nov 26, 2011 at 12:29 PM
MrAdventure
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p.3 #19 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


Bill Guy wrote:
Check out Adobe's new pricing strategy for CS6. No more going back more than one version for upgrading. So it is upgrade or pay full price.

Read it here.


It's been a little while now since this news was announced...my question is this:

Is there a reasonable alternative to Adobe's current software lineup?

A: Not really...let's face it. There are a few programs that approximates the basic functions but nothing as comprehensive. They own the market because of the resources they invested long ago to get to this point.

They don't have to be "reasonable" it's a biz. Phone companies used to be as draconian...it took many decades for them to give it up to other providers. I'm sure Adobe will move back to something more accomodating once other companies begin stepping up their game...what happened to Corel??



Nov 26, 2011 at 01:13 PM
anthonygh
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p.3 #20 · Adobe is not going to allow upgrading from older versions with CS6


Here is a thought: Could Apple develop Aperture into an alternative to Photoshop? It wouldn't have to mirror every feature of PS...just the features that most photographers need.

I believe Apple has the financial and technical expertise to create such a programme.....and if it did, Adobe would not be happy. Most photographers would; even if it was a Mac only App.



Nov 26, 2011 at 02:10 PM
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