molson wrote:
Unfortunately, PayPal will always side with a buyer who wants to defraud a seller, and the seller has no recourse, so the same rules about checking references and only dealing with established members applies to using regular PayPal just as it does to using PayPal Gift.
Not true. Recently I sold a lens on eBay and the buyer claimed that he never received it, though the tracking number showed "delivered". He opened the case and it was closed in my favor the same day. I always pay extra for delivery confirmation not to mention the pictures I take when I pack the goods and seal the box. This way no one can claim I sent out a brick instead of a lens.
ReneMurea wrote:
Not true. Recently I sold a lens on eBay and the buyer claimed that he never received it, though the tracking number showed "delivered". He opened the case and it was closed in my favor the same day. I always pay extra for delivery confirmation not to mention the pictures I take when I pack the goods and seal the box. This way no one can claim I sent out a brick instead of a lens.
Rene:
What applies to Ebay purchases does not necessarily apply to outside Ebay like here.
Last year, I bought a lens on this forum paid withregulat Paypal.Never received the lens ,contacted Paypal , won my case but the guy had emptied his bank account so I got an email saying that
when he replenishes (yeah right) his bank account , then and only then, they will refund.
Thanks to some members,they tracked him down and I eventually got my lens,only due to the
diligence of this community.
Sorry,long but true story.
Would you consider posting "Do NOT use Paypal Gift" as a sticky on the top of the Log-In side of the BS Board? I almost missed it signing in; just caught a glimpse while hitting the Log On button but it wasn't on that side of the board.
I agree, Paypal gift offers no protection. Too many people are answering WTB ads asking for Paypal Gift. The regular Paypal service has saved me a few times, even from honest transaction mistakes. Protect yourself!
goatsby wrote:
I agree, Paypal gift offers no protection. Too many people are answering WTB ads asking for Paypal Gift. The regular Paypal service has saved me a few times, even from honest transaction mistakes. Protect yourself!
Most sellers offer the choice of gift or regular PP.Difference is 3% in fees.
In my opinion, it gives you the consumer,the choice of paying or not.
In other words,is the risk worth the 3%?
In my case ,I use both when buying,depends on who's doing the selling.....! :-)
Can someone please explain why the buyer is expected to pay the PayPal fees? The seller pays the fees when PayPal is used for other vendors. Sellers pay the fees when they use eBay or they pay the listing fees for a real estate transaction? Why this (IMHO) bizarre expectation to shift this cost back onto the buyer? At a minimum I would think the fees would be split. Am I the only one who feels this way?
I have had the experience that I included ship and Paypal selling an item...... And the buyer decided to use gift on their own. Paypal sent me an email to stop taking gift..... Am I suppose to refund and ask them to resend the normal way?? I never asked for the gift option. I do prefer to take an echeck but Paypal has made it harder to acess echeck since they only get $5.00 per total transaction.
bluenoser23 wrote:
Can someone please explain why the buyer is expected to pay the PayPal fees? The seller pays the fees when PayPal is used for other vendors. Sellers pay the fees when they use eBay or they pay the listing fees for a real estate transaction? Why this (IMHO) bizarre expectation to shift this cost back onto the buyer? At a minimum I would think the fees would be split. Am I the only one who feels this way?
Well if the seller pays the fees,he will calculate the fees and add them to his price,so at the end
it's always the buyer that pays them,they are hidden but they are there.
At least with a choice of payments,you as a buyer , have a choice to save the amount
or take the safer way.
tpsfoto wrote:
I have had the experience that I included ship and Paypal selling an item...... And the buyer decided to use gift on their own. Paypal sent me an email to stop taking gift..... Am I suppose to refund and ask them to resend the normal way?? I never asked for the gift option. I do prefer to take an echeck but Paypal has made it harder to acess echeck since they only get $5.00 per total transaction.
I used to use Echeck often, but the choice is no longer offered in my Paypal payment options.
I don't really know why??!
Armee wrote:
Well if the seller pays the fees,he will calculate the fees and add them to his price,so at the end
it's always the buyer that pays them,they are hidden but they are there.
At least with a choice of payments,you as a buyer , have a choice to save the amount
or take the safer way.
Well if FM is serious about people not using the gift option then it should make it the official policy that the seller state only a price that includes the PayPal fees.
It's like when a contractor comes to my home and offers me a "cash" price or a higher price that includes a receipt. That's cheating the government and the gift option is cheating PayPal.
Mr bluenoser23....
Not exactly true, as you are still getting a receipt when one is offered,it's more
like a computer store that offers a discount for cash payment.
Also you have the ultimate choice as a buyer to buy or not to buy.
If it bothers you so much,move on to another seller.
Again,as previously mentioned,I like to have as buyer the choice and like to offer as the seller the choice .
ReneMurea wrote:
Not true. Recently I sold a lens on eBay and the buyer claimed that he never received it, though the tracking number showed "delivered". He opened the case and it was closed in my favor the same day. I always pay extra for delivery confirmation not to mention the pictures I take when I pack the goods and seal the box. This way no one can claim I sent out a brick instead of a lens.
It is true, unfortunately. If the buyer claims the item is "not as advertised", you have no recourse except to take the item back and offer a refund. Sell me something through PayPal and I'll prove it to you...
The simplest and most democratic approach for sellers is to post a "net" selling price... that way if the buyer wants to use a fee-based escrow service like PayPal, they have to pick up the extra cost.
Either GetDPI or mu4/3 forum (think it's the latter) asks each member who observes it to "flag" a PayPal gift payment by sending a PM to the Mods. FWIW, I blow right on by anybody who offers either PP gift or "net to me." If the FM member has enough feedback and I have a B&S relationship with them already in place, as I've noted before here, I'll take a USPS MO or a personal check. YMMV
Armee wrote:
Mr bluenoser23....
Not exactly true, as you are still getting a receipt when one is offered,it's more
like a computer store that offers a discount for cash payment.
Also you have the ultimate choice as a buyer to buy or not to buy.
If it bothers you so much,move on to another seller.
Again,as previously mentioned,I like to have as buyer the choice and like to offer as the seller the choice .
Mr. Armee.
Well sellers and buyers can call it what they like (or rationalize how they like) but at the end of the day telling PayPal a transaction is a gift when it's not to avoid fees is fraud.
Bother me? It doesn't bother me (did I say that?) - label PayPal transactions as gifts all you want. I'm not here to legislate morality. What does *bother* me is hypocrisy. I want people to be honest about what they're advocating - which is fraud - plain and simple.
Are you telling me it isn't fraud labelling a transaction as a gift which deprives PayPal of their transaction fee - oops...I mean saves the buyer some money (sounds better that way doesn't it?)
anthonysemone wrote:
Either GetDPI or mu4/3 forum (think it's the latter) asks each member who observes it to "flag" a PayPal gift payment by sending a PM to the Mods. FWIW, I blow right on by anybody who offers either PP gift or "net to me." If the FM member has enough feedback and I have a B&S relationship with them already in place, as I've noted before here, I'll take a USPS MO or a personal check. YMMV
I also,offer the MO or personal check, but nowadays everybody is more and more in hurry
to get what they bought and not wait .They (the buyers)seldom opt for them,due to the extra
time involved.
No it's not Mr. Armee. All I'm doing is opening your eyes to what you're doing - advocating fraud. Sorry for the "inconvenient truth".
(why so upset? you seem to be under the impression I'm "hot and bothered" at your or by this issue - I thought we were just having a civil discussion? Oh well - the internet is a strange place).
Come on guys. No reason to be pissy about it. Fred made his point known and others have responded. He said he would not enforce it. It's up to the seller and the buy about the GIFT. I think it's wrong and will bot play the game as a seller or buyer, but to each there own.
James_N wrote:
Oh Wow.... 18 posts and 3 transactions in almost 4 years and dictating to active members how they should conduct their business.
Almost 4 years Ummmmm.....James_N - your math is a bit wonky. I joined October 2008 - it's now Oct. 2011 - that's 3 years - not "close to 4". Now I get why you don't recognize the definition of fraud when you can't come up with 11 minus 8.
(anyway, does no one read?)
Again - I'm NOT dictating anything to anyone! Repeat: I am NOT dictating anything to anyone.
What I AM doing is calling a spade a spade (which makes people uncomfortable - I get that - but the truth is the truth).
I knew this card (i.e. you aren't a long time member) would be played sooner or later (like the "race" card)...the last bastion for those without a good argument. Whether I've been here for 1 year or 10 years: 2+2 still equals 4 - my lack of posting history or feedback doesn't change that truth (just like the definition of fraud).
So yes, I'm aware that PayPal gifts, etc. are an institution for many here at FM - so I didn't think my "inconvenient truth" would be met with warm applause. Nor do I care. There are many people here (long standing members as that seems to make you feel better) that recognize this truth.
?? I never asked for the gift option. I do prefer to take an echeck but Paypal has made it harder to acess echeck since they only get $5.00 per total transaction.
