wickerprints wrote:
7D level? That's nowhere near "enough of an improvement." Why would Canon put an already-existing AF system from a lower-tier product into an upper-tier body? The 7D AF system is hobbyist-level stuff, not suitable for a high pixel count full frame sensor that is often used with fast-aperture primes.
No. Such suggestions are damaging if Canon thinks consumers will be happy with that. One f/2.8 point in the center does not make an adequate AF system for a 5D-series body. It will need peripheral f/2.8 AF sensors, something that the 1Ds-series bodies have had for ages now.
If the 1D X is the future flagship body designed for high DR, low noise, high ISO, moderate resolution, and high frame rate, then the 5D3 may need to be geared toward high resolution, medium DR, medium noise, and low frame rate, to satisfy the portrait and landscape shooters who don't need the hair-trigger responsiveness of the 1D X. But if that's the case, the 5D3 will also need an AF system that can function for fast-aperture primes, and won't be crippled with f/5.6 sensors. Because it's not an "action" body, it doesn't need 61 AF points. It only needs a few points with very high precision. And that's not what the 7D has.
I can't stand how people somehow think the 7D AF is the cat's ass. It's like some of you have never seen what a 1D-series AF system is capable of doing. If your idea of "good" AF is the 7D...then buy a 7D....Show more →
Funny ... not sure why you think the 7D AF is so bad
if you list out the camera bodies that are above it and below it in AF performance wise .... there is what - 3 camera above:
1DIV, 1DIII, and 1DsIII.
the above is not world beating but better in a specific realm.
(I have not used a 1DsIII.)
.....and all this is subjective in real world use.
I think this camera is quite interesting, though I have no use for it (I'm a Nikon shooter with no money!).
It's interesting because it's evidence of serious investment by Canon in technologies that will be rendered obsolete with the demise of the SLR. That shows Canon believes SLRs will thrive for many years to come.
Watch " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">this slow-motion video of a Nikon D3 shooting at 11 frames per second, showing rippling carbon-fibre, aluminium and Kevlar. To get that to work, all this (and more) had to happen. This is hard. Nikon and Canon make it look easy, because when the technology launches in a product it generally works well. That doesn't mean it was easily achieved.
Other technologies show-cased here are new too: a seemingly all-new full-frame sensor, with a new readout design that I expect to be significantly better than any previous Canon implementation (less shadow noise); a new shutter good for a record 400,000 actuations; a new autofocus system; a new metering system; new video features; a new transparent LCD viewfinder overlay, matched with officially interchangeable focusing screens; Ethernet; GPS integration; etc.
Presumably it also benefits from the best viewfinder on the market, the best build quality on the market, and the best system support, much like the 1Ds Mark III before it.
These features combined do show that Canon made a big effort here. The parallels with Nikon's 2007 launch of the D3 are obvious. The 12-megapixel D3 and D300 are analogous to the 18-megapixel 1D X and 7D, except Nikon is now out of date (they'll be back of course; with Nikon and Canon it's practically a rule that the player with the most to announce lets the other announce first).
The price is also suggestive of a cosy one-two with Nikon. With more than two colluding players, these prices would be history. With 6800 dollars you can buy a new small car, ten enthusiast-class SLR cameras, six MacBook Pro computers, a Gaggia Deco espresso machine, or other things of obviously higher value than a 1D X. But this is a failure of competition law rather than Canon.
wickerprints wrote:
7D level? That's nowhere near "enough of an improvement." Why would Canon put an already-existing AF system from a lower-tier product into an upper-tier body? The 7D AF system is hobbyist-level stuff, not suitable for a high pixel count full frame sensor that is often used with fast-aperture primes.
No. Such suggestions are damaging if Canon thinks consumers will be happy with that. One f/2.8 point in the center does not make an adequate AF system for a 5D-series body. It will need peripheral f/2.8 AF sensors, something that the 1Ds-series bodies have had for ages now.
If the 1D X is the future flagship body designed for high DR, low noise, high ISO, moderate resolution, and high frame rate, then the 5D3 may need to be geared toward high resolution, medium DR, medium noise, and low frame rate, to satisfy the portrait and landscape shooters who don't need the hair-trigger responsiveness of the 1D X. But if that's the case, the 5D3 will also need an AF system that can function for fast-aperture primes, and won't be crippled with f/5.6 sensors. Because it's not an "action" body, it doesn't need 61 AF points. It only needs a few points with very high precision. And that's not what the 7D has.
I can't stand how people somehow think the 7D AF is the cat's ass. It's like some of you have never seen what a 1D-series AF system is capable of doing. If your idea of "good" AF is the 7D...then buy a 7D....Show more →
I own both a 7D and 1 series cameras...7D doesn't let me down in the AF department, and I don't have a problem using fast primes with it either.
It is the cat's ass, it is the best AF system in a crop body and the 5Dmk whatever it will be would be a much better camera with that AF system implemented.
I would think that the 1D-X will have considerable upgrade appeal to those who are currently using a 1Ds Mark II (or older 1Ds) and to those who are currently using a 1D Mark III (or older 1D series). Those using a 1Ds Mark II will, by upgrading, get more resolution, better high ISO performance, higher frame rate, video, better LCD, etc. Those using a 1D Mark III (or older 1D) will get more resolution when not focal length limited, similar resolution when focal length limited, better high ISO, etc.
On the other hand, I think that the 1D-X will have much more limited upgrade appeal to those currently using a 1Ds Mark III or 1D Mark IV. Most 1Ds Mark III users don't need 12 or 14 fps, and even if the 1D-X's larger pixels are better at the pixel level compared to those of the 1Ds Mark III, I can't imagine that there will be significant improvement, if any, at the image level in an 18 mp 1D-X image compared to a 21 mp 1Ds Mark III image. And, for those using a 1D Mark IV and who are often focal length limited, including wildlife shooters and many sports shooters, I can't imagine that there will be much appeal in going from a 16 mp 1D Mark IV image to an 18 mp 1D-X image, and this will be especially true if the 1D-X image needs to be cropped to 11 mp to get the same field of view as the uncropped 16 mp 1D Mark IV image.
Thus, I'd guess that the big share of upgrades to the 1D-X will come from those whose upgrade path skipped the 1Ds Mark III or 1D Mark IV and that many of the current 1Ds Mark III and 1D Mark IV users will not find reasons to upgrade until, a few years down the road, 1D-X Mark II or 1D-X Mark III appears with 25-30 mp and pixel density similar to or exceeding that of the 1d Mark IV.
The biggest question now is what system do we buy next? This kind of reminds me of the last year of an automobile model year, where they had a few features but everything else looks the same. Us studio photographers really need a camera that shoots at a billion ISO. I guess the 1Ds is dead, can't wait to see what the 5D3 does.Sony, Nikon and Red must love this announcement. I'll bet this still costs $8000 but should be great for the sports guys. Still to heavy for wedding shooters but probably would work great for that. Severely disappointed in this combining of the two models, really doesn't work for me.
The D3 also "combined" two models: the D2Xs and D2Hs. That is, until the D3X came along, of course. This is standard practice.
The EOS-1D X name is a disaster though, judging by the number of people already mangling it by putting the hyphen in the wrong place, including the thread starter. Half of Fred Miranda is already unsearchable because of rampant misspellings, invented contractions, and other laziness. Sheesh, guys.
I've always wanted to make the jump from the 5D to the 1D, but I'm not sure this is the time to do it. If the next 5D has half the specs it would be pretty compelling. You know, half the iso, half the focus points, half the fps. I don't mean literally half, because I doubt the next 5D will be 6fps But just the idea that the next 5D will be nearly half as good as this, and at less than half the price, makes me want to wait.
But I've always wanted to own a 1D. Hmmm. Right now I'm more interested in picking up a 200MM f2 than this new 1D. Tough decisions ahead
Specularist wrote:
The price is also suggestive of a cosy one-two with Nikon. With more than two colluding players, these prices would be history. With 6800 dollars you can buy a new small car, ten enthusiast-class SLR cameras, six MacBook Pro computers, a Gaggia Deco espresso machine, or other things of obviously higher value than a 1D X. But this is a failure of competition law rather than Canon.
That is the most unfortunate part in this high-end dSLR/lens business.
Not only technical products and features are being harmonised between those two "competitors" ( ), they also appear to coordinate their prices to our detriment.
Fortunately, we are still left with a freedom of choice.....once prices become overly distasteful, we can walk away from it and chose some other options allbeit perhaps technically less "perfect".
In the cold light of day, I think the AF, ISO & FPS make this a monster of a camera for sports/news/wedding , but this just doesn't fit studio/landscape people who only wanted updated AF & higher MP. I've no use for 7 more fps or ISO 32000. Short of something coming completely out of left field, our options would appear to be to either hold off for a 1DX2 in 2013-14, jump to Nikon, go MFDB, accept a less featured 5D3. A full MFDB + backup system is a serious amount of money, and I, like most people interested in the 1 series line, have way too much in Canon glass to jump with any kind of ease. Honest inclination is to wait, since none of that is enticing in the slightest. I'm going to go look for a used 1Ds3 as a further backup or something.
dennishh wrote:
The biggest question now is what system do we buy next? This kind of reminds me of the last year of an automobile model year, where they had a few features but everything else looks the same. Us studio photographers really need a camera that shoots at a billion ISO. I guess the 1Ds is dead, can't wait to see what the 5D3 does.Sony, Nikon and Red must love this announcement. I'll bet this still costs $8000 but should be great for the sports guys. Still to heavy for wedding shooters but probably would work great for that. Severely disappointed in this combining of the two models, really doesn't work for me....Show more →
i think a lot of wedding shooters need to get to the gym......
lets see 5Dmkii+flash+brick (24-70mm)....
i will take 1D-X+OCF+prime lens ( 24mm/35mm/50mm) any day of the week.
The OCF is a little radio control device.
Sometimes I think we are getting a little lazy in our society and want everything easy ... push the red button - "that was easy."
dennishh wrote:
The biggest question now is what system do we buy next? This kind of reminds me of the last year of an automobile model year, where they had a few features but everything else looks the same. Us studio photographers really need a camera that shoots at a billion ISO. I guess the 1Ds is dead, can't wait to see what the 5D3 does.Sony, Nikon and Red must love this announcement. I'll bet this still costs $8000 but should be great for the sports guys. Still to heavy for wedding shooters but probably would work great for that. Severely disappointed in this combining of the two models, really doesn't work for me....Show more →
According to the the Canon press release;
"The Canon EOS-1D X Digital SLR camera is scheduled for March 2012 availability and will be sold in a body-only configuration at an estimated retail price of $6,800.00."
$6800 is pretty good price! Still looks old and not much of a revolution though, I suppose it does come down to what the images look like has anyone seen any samples? Price wise this is encouraging only because the 5D3 might be less than it was last time.
Do they suppose the DIGIC processor is powered by tiny hamster wheels?
It was probably my comment, misinterpreted.
I was expressing the desire for a compact, full frame body having similar specifications, except for framerate. Such a camera would better meet the needs of magazine photojournalists, wedding shooters, event photographers, et al, who don't need 12fps or particularly want to deal with a bulky, conspicuous camera.
However, if it were designed such that adding a "high power" battery grip could bring the framerate up (ala Nikon), then the needs of sports and wildlife shooters could also be satisfied.
As it stands, a lot of folks will have to shoulder on with the 5D Mark II until the next compact full frame camera is introduced.
), they also appear to coordinate their prices to our detriment.