fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Forum & Miscellaneous | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              9              11       end
  

Archive 2011 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today

  
 
Steezus
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #1 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


I don't think it is so much that he designed a product that people wanted as much as he designed a product and convinced people that they wanted it and he knew when technology and the world would be ready for it. Apple actually imitated all of their most popular products, they just made sure it was pretty and usually stripped out a lot of cutting edge features to make it more basic and locked down as possible. His genius was in how he convinced everyone that each product was revolutionary when it was actually evolutionary.

As for my original gripe, take a look at pictures on the news. People are building shrines and holding vigils in Steve's name. Does this not scare any of you that people are so into their products that they buy that when the CEO of the company that created these products pass, it has this kind of an affect on them? This is our society though. This is why news is so dominated with celebrity gossip and reality television is almost inescapable as you flip through the channels.



Oct 07, 2011 at 05:02 PM
LeifG
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #2 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


Steezus wrote:
No kidding. On a Nikon sub-forum? People are so infatuated with his products, it is quite scary. The guy lied to a court saying he was sterile to prevent being identified as the father of his biological daughter. Extremely weak in the philanthropy department for someone with such vast wealth. Renowned for treating many of his employees like garbage. If only people were as touched by people who have helped pave the way to curing disease or helping mankind rather than someone who knows how to make an aesthetically pleasing product..

It is sad and all, but perhaps take it
...Show more

You are right of course. From what I read he could be unpleasant to people who did not follow his lead. However, he was unique, as someone who could create a product that was ahead of its time. By all accounts he never came up with ideas, but he was able to recognise good ideas, and develop them in order to create a new product. Unlike many he was willing to take risks, and he had the self confidence to pursue his goals. Microsoft on the other hand have a record of buying companies/people to get new technology.

I suspect many successful people are not all that nice in reality. I've worked for some fairly big names (I won't mention them) and they were thoroughly unpleasant: arrogant, obnoxious and egocentric bullies. I am not for one moment saying Jobs was like that. I never met him, and I do admire what he did. On the plus side, he created a lot of jobs, and wealth for America. And I really like my iPod Touch!



Oct 07, 2011 at 05:36 PM
LeifG
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #3 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


Steezus wrote:
I don't think it is so much that he designed a product that people wanted as much as he designed a product and convinced people that they wanted it and he knew when technology and the world would be ready for it. Apple actually imitated all of their most popular products, they just made sure it was pretty and usually stripped out a lot of cutting edge features to make it more basic and locked down as possible. His genius was in how he convinced everyone that each product was revolutionary when it was actually evolutionary.


I do not agree. I have an iPod and I was not convinced by anyone that I wanted it. I bought a Zen music player, and it was so poor, I exchanged it for an iPod. I was against iPods as I thought they were hype. Not so. Apple do think a lot about useability. There are lots of little touches that make them special. But you are quite right when you say they lock it down. Microsoft products are open. Apple are closed. I really really do not like the way the iPod Touch stores files. It is awful. There is no real file system, so it is a pain to copy files Arrgh. And that is all about control. To make money. To make sure Apple pull the strings. But, at the end of the day the iPod Touch is such a good music player, and so 'cute', that I am willing to put up with the annoying aspects. (I use mine as a note pad when collecting and recording fungi.)



Oct 07, 2011 at 05:41 PM
jhinkey
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.10 #4 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


abam wrote:
what i was expressing in a roundabout way was that i am more concerned about advances in cancer therapies than the passing of steve jobs.

That's cool. I was just letting people know how dire it is to be diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. As a person with pancreatic issues (thank goodness cancer is not one of them) I am acutely aware of such things.

John



Oct 07, 2011 at 06:00 PM
EB-1
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #5 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


Steezus wrote:
I don't think it is so much that he designed a product that people wanted as much as he designed a product and convinced people that they wanted it and he knew when technology and the world would be ready for it. Apple actually imitated all of their most popular products, they just made sure it was pretty and usually stripped out a lot of cutting edge features to make it more basic and locked down as possible. His genius was in how he convinced everyone that each product was revolutionary when it was actually evolutionary.

As for my original gripe,
...Show more

Yes it is very scary and very sad.

EBH



Oct 07, 2011 at 06:52 PM
jhinkey
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.10 #6 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


EB-1 wrote:
Yes it is very scary and very sad.

EBH

Unfortunately people tend to be into the cult of personality instead of actual leadership and intellect. Yes, Mr. Jobs made his mark on the world, but he was not perfect just like most of us aren't perfect either. I would submit that only in the rear view mirror of history will his true legacy be really known. Personally I suspect it will not be as outstanding as many people think it currently is.

J



Oct 07, 2011 at 07:11 PM
VladiD
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.10 #7 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


jhinkey wrote:
Unfortunately people tend to be into the cult of personality instead of actual leadership and intellect.


Did you just demote Steve Jobs to the likes of Kim Kardashian?

Are you saying that Jobs lacked in the leadership department? Leadership, of all things?



Oct 07, 2011 at 07:44 PM
jhinkey
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.10 #8 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


VladiD wrote:
Did you just demote Steve Jobs to the likes of Kim Kardashian?

Are you saying that Jobs lacked in the leadership department? Leadership, of all things?

No, I was talking about people in general, not Mr. Jobs necessarily.

John



Oct 07, 2011 at 09:08 PM
CGrindahl
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #9 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


Clearly, this death is a rorschach test which inevitably brings out the existing prejudices of responders. My guess is that most users of Microsoft products find the adulation over Jobs excessive and the response to his death curious at best. I was talking with a friend who was a graphic designer for years at Adobe at the time Adobe and Apple were connected at the hip. He continues to do graphic design and also provides support services for folks working with Apple products. We are both old enough that Steve's journey, dropping out in the 70's and heading to India to sit with a guru and drop acid has some relevance since we did somethings like that ourselves along the way. Jobs represented for many folks the dissatisfaction with the status quo and a desire for a different path through life, attitudes that likely had a great deal to do with the Vietnam war and assassinations during the sixties. Apple's advertising slogan that appeared shortly after Jobs returned to the company was "THINK DIFFERENT" which resonated with a great many people. The colored iMac represented a significant change from all the beige boxes used by folks offering Microsoft products.

I owned a tangerine iMac and then Cube, my second and third Apple computers. They were stunning on my desktop and great performers. But I think the people who are leaving flowers are doing so because Steve did it his way, not by conforming, but by taking risks. Again, watch the video of his Stanford commencement address and you'll get a flavor for how all this unfolded. As a Buddhist myself, what Steve says resonates for me. I don't own an iPod, an iPhone or and iPad, simply a MacPro with a 23" Apple Cinema Display. Apple has given me products that have ALWAYS performed beautifully. I've NEVER been infected by a virus and I spend huge amounts of time online. The number of times my computer has crashed in the last 20 years not caused by a Microsoft product, could likely be counted on the fingers of one hand. Apple builds products that are a delight to see and a joy to use... much like my D700...

So if Steve wasn't perfect, at least he was very good at what he did. If you missed out on the pleasure of using a Mac because you concluded you didn't want to be part of the "movement" or because you believed the product was overpriced, all I can say, I doubt you've been having as much pleasure as most Mac users have had... at least consumer satisfaction surveys tell us Mac users are much more pleased with their products than those using Microsoft products. Perhaps the engineers prefer MS, while the poets prefer Mac. I can live with that...

"Apple’s record of customer satisfaction preeminence in the personal computer industry continues unabated in 2011, as the company adds another point to its already exceptional score. At 87 (+1%), Apple outdistances its nearest competitor by 9 points.

“In the eight years that Apple has led the PC industry in customer satisfaction, its stock price has increased by 2,300%,” remarks Claes Fornell, founder of the ACSI and author of The Satisfied Customer: Winners and Losers in the Battle for Buyer Preference. “Apple’s winning combination of innovation and product diversification—including spinning off technologies into entirely new directions—has kept the company consistently at the
...Show more

http://www.theacsi.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=262ress-release-september-2011&catid=14&Itemid=287



Oct 07, 2011 at 10:17 PM
LeifG
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #10 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


I agree with the last post by CGrindahl.

I wrote my PhD thesis on a Mac, almost 30 years ago. That was the first mainstream machine with an easy to use graphical user interface.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_128K

The alternative, DOS, was atrocious, as I later found out when I went to work as a software engineer on Windows machines. Even the Cray XMP supercomputer I used did not have anything but a basic user interface. Jobs and Wozniak took something they had seen in a research lab (Zerox Park, Palo Alto) and put it into a PC with a slow (by modern standards) processor, which was quite an achievement. The Mac I used was self contained, including screen, hardware and disk drive, in one box. It was well made, and so easy to use. No viruses, very reliable, fast boot, but expensive. My two iPods are beautifully made too, and very well designed.

One key reason why Macs are more reliable than PCs is that Apple control the software and the hardware, so they can make absolutely sure that they work together. The Windows OS has to cope with goodness knows how many versions of hardware, and that means that stability is dependent on third party hardware drivers (software) that run in kernel mode, which means they can cause system crashes if they are not written well, and most do have bugs.

I don't see Apple continuing as they have, as Jobs was such a driving force. I hope I am wrong. Jobs was lucky as he met a hardware genius in the form of Steve Wozniak, but people like Jobs do seem to create their own good luck.



Oct 08, 2011 at 02:22 AM
NightOwl Cat
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.10 #11 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/226923/20111007/steve-jobs-apple-iphone-ipad-ipod-apple-television-apple-share-price.htm

Elegant solutions to technology is the main attraction to Apple products for me. The inability to swap out batteries easily is the only thing that really drives me crazy with the iPad and iPods. I've got one of the 6GB iPod minis that I've performed the operation on already, my 60GB did not survive being run over by a car after it fell out of my pocket while crossing a street. I also managed to pick up a Mac Mini within the first month of release as my second Apple purchase, wasn't sure I would like it, but I do, and it's still running. He was very good at what he did.

Yes, some parts of his personal life was not nice, but I hope that maturity caused him to at least atone for those deeds.

John 8:7

Matthew 7:1

Romans 2:1

LeifG wrote:
I agree with the last post by CGrindahl.

I don't see Apple continuing as they have, as Jobs was such a driving force. I hope I am wrong. Jobs was lucky as he met a hardware genius in the form of Steve Wozniak, but people like Jobs do seem to create their own good luck.




Oct 08, 2011 at 07:39 AM
Sgt93
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #12 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


CGrindahl wrote:
Clearly, this death is a rorschach test which inevitably brings out the existing prejudices of responders. My guess is that most users of Microsoft products find the adulation over Jobs excessive and the response to his death curious at best. I was talking with a friend who was a graphic designer for years at Adobe at the time Adobe and Apple were connected at the hip. He continues to do graphic design and also provides support services for folks working with Apple products. We are both old enough that Steve's journey, dropping out in the 70's and heading to India
...Show more


A great write up. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I love "perhaps the engineers prefer MS, while the poets prefer Mac. I can live with that...." Nice.

BTW, I run Parallels with MS galore for IT (pseudocode, project 2007 etc). It all runs better and more reliable on the Mac.



Oct 08, 2011 at 07:42 AM
Reagan
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.10 #13 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


My Apple products are something that I can count on not to let me down
Not one of them has given me any kind of problem over the years that wasn't self inflicted
You clearly get what you pay for

Reagan



Oct 08, 2011 at 08:27 AM
RoySussex
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #14 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


The beatification process seems to be well under way.
Roy



Oct 08, 2011 at 11:24 AM
gugs
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #15 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


A great loss. He has been one of the key persons in the history of computer science and consumer electronics. I have never been an Apple fanboy, and I don't always agree with their business model, but I always respected Jobs' creations and his work.

Guy



Oct 08, 2011 at 11:50 AM
RoySussex
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #16 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


A little perspective wouldn't hurt.
http://www.american.com/archive/2011/september/why-jobs-is-no-edison
Roy



Oct 08, 2011 at 02:17 PM
Jammy Straub
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #17 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


RoySussex wrote:
A little perspective wouldn't hurt.
http://www.american.com/archive/2011/september/why-jobs-is-no-edison
Roy


That's frankly, ridiculous.

A whole article that's a rebuttal to another article. You'll find most educated people know Steve was an amazing CEO not an inventor.



Oct 08, 2011 at 02:26 PM
CGrindahl
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #18 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


Those of us who suffered through the day's of John Scully and Gil Amelio, are very aware of the impact Steve Jobs had on Apple upon his return. No, he wasn't at a work bench trying a thousand different filaments. In that way he isn't an inventor. Yet comparing Apple of the mid-nineties with what came shortly after his return, it is clear something shifted and most of us who were following that change attribute it to Steve Jobs' presence. Whether it was his insight into the consumer market or his fanatical attention to detail or his commitment to excellence "under the hood" isn't clear, though it was likely a combination of all of those things. And yes, he was surrounded by many talented people who were sitting at a work bench trying to solve problems, most of whom were there because of Steve Jobs. He was more than simply a CEO of a large organization, he innovated and he inspired. I get it, Roy wasn't inspired. That's fine with me. As a user of the products inspired by Jobs and delivered by Apple, I'm grateful for his presence on this planet for a few decades. It certainly enriched my life.


Oct 08, 2011 at 03:11 PM
skibum5
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #19 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


LeifG wrote:
I agree with the last post by CGrindahl.

I wrote my PhD thesis on a Mac, almost 30 years ago. That was the first mainstream machine with an easy to use graphical user interface.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_128K

The alternative, DOS, was atrocious, as I later found out when I went to work as a software engineer on Windows machines. Even the Cray XMP supercomputer I used did not have anything but a basic user interface. Jobs and Wozniak took something they had seen in a research lab (Zerox Park, Palo Alto) and put it into a PC with a slow (by modern standards)
...Show more

Hmm and what about stuff like AmigaOS? GUI, powerful UNIX-like shell as well that they didn't try to hide away, pre-emptive multi-tasking (yes back in 1985! when the other could only dream of even simple hog switching for the still distant future) and innards more modern than ancient Linux, running on hardware far, far more powerful and advanced than the MAC (auto-config bus already back in 1985, custom graphics bus separate from main memory bus, custom chipsets for audio/graphics/storage/input, etc. 4096 colors at once as opposed to 2, etc. 512K as the LOWEST configuration, 880K on 3.5 floppies, direct DMA to storage, etc.). And again it came out 1985, just a year later (the engineers had been pushing for it much sooner but they sadly had very non visionary very non genius very poor leaders heading up their companies). It is such a fallacy that without Apple there never would have been anything else but crummy DOS for ages. It is kind of a shame that the press has totally forgotten much of actual history of computing.

Wozniak gets a lot of credit for Apple I and bringing something like that to the home for the first time in any real sense and sure most people could not just up and design a PC then but that said his designs were pretty kindergarten when it comes down to it and he was no genius engineer compared to people such as Jay Miner, who few ever mention, even though any modern home computer these days is a heck of a lot more fashioned over the sort of stuff he did than any crappy old Apple II, MAC or IBM clone box hardware (in fact, Microsoft and I think also Apple, actually use to use some of these alternate brand hardware and OS under the table to run their own trade shows since their own stuff wasn't as good while at the very same time presenting to the press that they made the only tech that counted and the only 'real', 'serious' computers and OS ). But as they say the victors write history (and buy out and control the press) so all most know about are Apple and Microsoft and IBM even though they had the least tech back then and the true geniuses of tech are but little known or mentioned and all they accomplished and brought forth painted over. Much of success is whether the CEO is any good and has vision mixed with a bit of luck (MS certainly lucked out to say the least) and sadly not based on the quality of the tech.

Anyway he certainly did rescue Apple and entirely upturned the music distribution industry and has had quite an influence on hand-held computing/music. He did instill a lot of elegance in his more recent stuff, his portable iProducts (although I do wish he had been more of a true computer enthusiant hacker type and not insisted on locking things down so much, the one thing that I think has been really bad about his more recent products).

He has certainly left a tremendous influence and even in the early days his skills did help move the PC into the home even if far superior home PCs soon came out it does take a certain something to do it the first successfully.

But there are many who really dislike his locking down of everything and it's rather ironic considering their old 1984 commercial. And it made his products and what could be put on them noticeable worse.



Edited on Oct 09, 2011 at 01:33 AM · View previous versions



Oct 08, 2011 at 03:23 PM
skibum5
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.10 #20 · Steve Jobs passed away earlier today


CGrindahl wrote:
Perhaps the engineers prefer MS, while the poets prefer Mac. I can live with that...


and the artistic engineers who really, really knew about the world of computing used neither




Oct 08, 2011 at 03:34 PM
1       2       3              9              11       end




FM Forums | Forum & Miscellaneous | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              9              11       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account