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Archive 2011 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

  
 
kosmoskatten
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p.14 #1 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Hello all, still in Ao Nang, returning to Bangkok tonight.
I am very hesitant about whether to pick up a 15mm Heliar asph II in Bangkok. Price is very good and I have use for the extra FOV (for climbing) but I have no means to test the lens before buying - since I did not bring the GXR M mount this time. Mitch?

PS; Thank you for seeing us Mitch, hope you had a great time in Paris! We are still thinking of the food and look forward to four days of great food in BKK starting from tonight.

Atran: as it seems I would not hold my breath for the A16 M module as I think they are looking at selling out the stock inventory of the A12:s as well as producing the A16 zoom module. Apparently there is a A16 Pentax K module in the works which yet again strongly suggests that they will - eventually - replace the A12 M module with the A16 M over time. If the K mount module is due soon I think factory resources will go towards producing a batch of K mounts and zoom modules before switching to a batch of A16 M mounts.

My source is still sure it will be replaced, he is not sure of when.

I am very pleased with the M module as it is and second hand ones should start popping up soon. On the A12/28 vs ZM18 I think they both have their merits with the A12/28 being a great performer at close range and has better close focus and AF. The ZM18 has better overall performance in all instances on the M module but is bigger, slower and has not the same close focus as the A12/28. For sheer quality the ZM18 wins hands down.




Jan 07, 2012 at 04:31 AM
kosmoskatten
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p.14 #2 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Ron; welcome aboard!

Let us know how you find the GXR. I can email you some basic settings or maybe Michael W can help you out. I am still on the move and have only sporadic internet.



Jan 07, 2012 at 04:33 AM
Mitch Alland
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p.14 #3 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


kosmoskatten wrote:
...I am very hesitant about whether to pick up a 15mm Heliar asph II in Bangkok. Price is very good and I have use for the extra FOV (for climbing) but I have no means to test the lens before buying - since I did not bring the GXR M mount this time. Mitch?...


I would go for the CV15/4 without testing — it's a good lens and I would assume the chances of getting a bad copy are minor. On the other hand, for the GXR-M you don't need vII, which I though t only differs from vI in having rangefinder coupling, which you don't need.

It was great to meet Jenny and you in Bangkok.

—Mitch/Paris
Tristes Tropiques? No They Have a Strip in Chiang Mai Too



Jan 07, 2012 at 08:18 AM
atran
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p.14 #4 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Hi Mike,
Thank you for your effort I am still looking at those ZM lenses and the A12 module. Do you remember the ISO level of the picture you take with the ZM 35/2? Looks a tiny bit grainy but quite clean in my opinion
I really the ZM 18/4, both its performance and design however I am not that big into that wide angles and slow lens so I am not sure May be a ZM 35/2 or 35/2.8 would fit better for me

To kosmoskatten: hmm no clear leak on the A-16 module is quite sad. I am pondering with the idea of pre-ordering a X-Pro 1 Fuji now since they will be releasing a Fuji M-mount adapter



Jan 07, 2012 at 07:02 PM
ocean2059
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p.14 #5 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Thanks you, Mitch, michaelwatkins, and kosmoskatten, very much for your comments regarding Zeiss ZM 18 vs Ricoh 28/2.5. I have been using the Ricoh 28 for a short while and I really like it, especially in close distances. But I found the resolution of the Ricoh 28 is a bit lacking, compared with Sony NEX 5N (with Contax G28) and Leica X1. I have not used the Ricoh A12 M module.


Jan 07, 2012 at 08:56 PM
kosmoskatten
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p.14 #6 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Atran; the X1 pro is a big question mark when it comes to handling.
As far as shot to shot and buffer speeds I am sure it will be much faster than the GXR in RAW mode. I also don't mind the f4 on the 18mm lens as it is already excellent wide open and I use it a lot wide open. Wide angles are an acquired taste and it is one of the better ones for sure. The market seems to settle on 16MP for a while on APS-C which is a good thing. I sincerely think it is maturing and few people would need more than that. Even the 12MP on the GXR M does a marvelous job of course.

Ocean; the ZM18 is clearly better for landscaping and for distant scenery and equally as good for close shots, bar the close focus. Also, the GXR M module brings out the best of it. I keep the A12 28 for street/casual and work related stuff where it is more than enough.

For the people that aren't in a rush I will definitely compare the X1 Pro with the GXR M and I think I will keep the GXR M regardless of the outcome.

If you already have the lenses the GXR M is a cheaper platform than the X1 Pro and I can almost definitely say the user interface will be superior. I don't know what Ron paid for his GXR M kit but when they start popping up second hand they will be tremendously good value for money.

I have the Fuji X10 and it is a great little traveling camera that has surprised me. Still, menu juggling is a far cry from Ricoh cameras which still are, in my book, class leading.



Jan 07, 2012 at 11:03 PM
michaelwatkins
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p.14 #7 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


The more I use the GXR the less I think about other cameras. The GXR handles so nicely in comparison to both the X100 and NEX that I'd be reluctant to ever give that up. (edit, a fit of hyperbole now having passed, I'd prefer to say that I just prefer the GXR UI and customizability.)

Yet I am glad to read the rumours that Fujifilm is going to offer a M bayonet adapter of their own and I hope by extension that means that the needs of manual focus lens users will be carefully taken into consideration with this new camera. More important than any one new camera what thrills me is the future seems to be looking kind to rangefinder glass which ought to remain useful on a number of bodies and brands for some years to come yet and thus hold its value well.

At this time the GXR does what I need and does a bloody fantastic job at it with my lenses; I'm glad I'm not in a waiting line for a NEX this or Fuji that. There'll be time later to decide.


Edited on Jan 08, 2012 at 01:12 AM · View previous versions



Jan 08, 2012 at 12:43 AM
Mitch Alland
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p.14 #8 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


kosmoskatten wrote:
...The market seems to settle on 16MP for a while on APS-C which is a good thing. I sincerely think it is maturing and few people would need more than that. Even the 12MP on the GXR M does a marvelous job of course...

If you already have the lenses the GXR M is a cheaper platform than the X1 Pro...

I have the Fuji X10 and it is a great little traveling camera that has surprised me. Still, menu juggling is a far cry from Ricoh cameras which still are, in my book, class leading.


Henrik,

My favorite focal lengths on an FF basis are 21, 28 and 40mm. With the GXR-M, I have settled on using the CV15, Elmarit-21 and the Summicron-28, with the latter giving me f/2.0 — although I haven't tried my Summoron-35v4 enough yet. Also, I've always liked the look the Summilux-50 pre-ASPH gives on film and, so, have shot with it a bit on the GXR-M, also because sometime it's good to have f/1.4. However, the resulting 75mm focal length is too long for my taste — same thing with the DR Summicron, which I also like. At first, I thought the perspective of the CV15 would be excessive for me, but that has not roved a problem and it si a good lens, although I still prefer the look I get with the Elmarit-21 ASPH.

The point of all this is that, if I were getting an APS-C camera, I wouldn't mind lenses designed for a 1.5x crop factor, such as the ones for the Fuji X1 Pro, although I don't need autofocus and prefer to focus manually or to pre-fucus for street photography using a focus rich on the lens. The other thing is that there is something about being able to shoot a lens like the Elmarit-21 ASPH or the Summilux-50 the way it was designed, so, at the end of the day, I would prefer a camera with an FF sensor, although I think currently the GXR-M is the camera I can make do with and, as I've written elsewhere, I certainly prefer it to the M8.2 that I had.

My other thoughts these days are that I still love the Ricoh GRD3 for street photography, preferring not to use an OVF but roughly framing with the LCD and looking directly at the subject when pressing the shutter, because this, and the huge DOF, encourages a fluid shooting style that I like — as in the series below my signature here. So far I find this type of style hard to achieve either with my old M6 or the GXR-M. although I might get there with the latter and the Elmarit-21.

—Mitch/Paris
Paris au rythme de Basquait



Jan 08, 2012 at 01:07 AM
Mitch Alland
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p.14 #9 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


michaelwatkins wrote:
...At this time the GXR does what I need and does a bloody fantastic job at it with my lenses; I'm glad I'm not in a waiting line for a NEX this or Fuji that. There'll be time later to decide.

Me neither, particularly as I much prefer the color rendition from the GXR-M to what I see coming the NEX cameras.

—Mitch/Paris
Paris au rythme de Basquait



Jan 08, 2012 at 01:14 AM
kosmoskatten
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p.14 #10 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Michael; yes, over time I have come to appreciate the GXR even more, especially after comparing with a few others. As I said I will keep it indefinitely as I find the outfit very well thought out. Even though it is APS-C it is a very nice platform for M glass in every other aspect.

If the X1 Pro turns out to be a great camera and they will make good on that M adapter promise I can still see myself keeping the GXR. I would then enjoy using all M glass on two platforms. Makes my investing in M glass even more of a great idea.

I kind of dig all three lenses to be released for the X1 Pro, with the 18/2 being the icing on the cake for me. Funny thing will be that I would then have three 18's, the A12, the ZM18 and the Fujinon. Of course, only the ZM18 is cross platform.

I was hesitant about the Voigt/Heliar 15mm but after thinking it through it is also cross platform and is on the cheap side of things. Also, it would mean a little more stretch on the wide side of things, when needed. I am thinking the range finder coupled VM / II so it will be more compatible with other platforms should I sell it later on.

So far I have stocked up on the ZM18, the ZM50, the Leica M 75/2.5, the Elmarit M 90 and eventually the Voigt 15, come tomorrow. Which ones to keep for the long term I don't know. I have seen awesome results from all of them except for the 15mm which I haven't seen much from at all. I am leaning towards a spread of the ZM18, ZM50 and the Leica M90, I might not have gotten the Leica 75 if I had known I'd find a Elmarit M90 so quickly. The 15 will be the odd ball but I hope to find good use for it.

With the A12/50 I have macro covered, it is a great macro lens. For the X1 Pro there will be the 60 (90) macro and with time perhaps a telephoto lens. With both I have the option to adapt a Leica R telephoto through R to M adapter so all in all things are looking good for this year.

All I am asking now is, where the hell is that full frame option?



Jan 08, 2012 at 06:21 AM
michaelwatkins
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p.14 #11 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


I might prune my collection some although the prospect of an affordable full frame digital back for these lenses may hold me back from doing so. ZM18, ZM25, ZM35 give me on a 1.5 crop roughly what the ZM28, ZM35, ZM50 would give me on full frame.

I can't see myself wanting to give up the ZM18 ever, or the ZM35. Or could I?

On a crop camera I could maybe convince myself I don't need to hold on to the ZM25, but in a future Utopian full frame affordable digital body (or module I hope) world, probably I would not exchange the ZM25 for the ZM28 and I'd definitely would want that perspective then. Perhaps I'd have to re-think the ZM35 and in that case I could see swapping the 25 for the 28 but maybe I'd miss that stop if I dropped my 35/2.

50|75|90 I'm not sure what I want to do. I like the CV75/2.5 for portraits on the crop camera but might like a 90 better and definitely on a full frame camera the 90 would be my preference so ultimately I think I'll be headed there. The CV75 I have focuses well past infinity and the focus throw is a little finicky in achieving focus at that end of the scale, but it is usable to be sure.

I've not used the ZM50/1.5 but have wanted one for the crop camera; would I still want it for a full frame? Maybe a less crisp (when shot open) telephoto might be more useful on both.

This month I'm committing to using my 35mm lens every day, among others. In February I'll do the same with the 25. I may do the same with the 18 in time but not to convince myself to keep it, that one I know I'm keeping unless in the future I've bought into a system that gives me that field of view with really good IQ and a faster lens.

One thing the GXR experience has taught me; don't make a decision on a lens until you use it on a camera that can do it justice. I would have sold the ZM25 without much hesitation if I'd remained on the NEX and saw no other system in my future, but now... not sure I want to go there!



Jan 08, 2012 at 11:34 AM
michaelwatkins
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p.14 #12 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


On a totally different topic, I ran across this post on Ricoh's own GR Blog talking about some of the design considerations for the Mount A12. Not having run into this before, including it in this thread in case others have missed it.

September 2011
http://www.grblog.jp/2011/09/english-ver-gxr-mount-unit-1st-hands-on.php




Jan 08, 2012 at 02:47 PM
atran
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p.14 #13 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Since the possible price of the Fuji X-Pro 1 comes out around $1,700 body only it's out of the equation with me for now unless I decide to buy it for speculative purpose All attention shifts back to the Ricoh.
I have some other questions about the Ricoh and possible lens choices:
-Anyone here using the Ricoh VF-2 external viewfinder? How is it? Is it better to manual focusing using the EVF or focus peeking mode? Is it possible to use are zoom or focusing peeking with the external EVF?
-Lens choices: I am looking for a 35-50ish equivalent on the Ricoh A12 module with max aperture of f/1.4-2 (without breaking the bank ) Right now I am interested in the ZM 35/2. How is it rendering style wide open? Is it already very sharp and contrasty wide open and improve mildly stopped down like the ZE 35/2 or is it start off decently sharp and improve more stopped down? How is the bokeh too?
-Any possible places to look for used GXR Body, A-12 module for a decent price ? I will be looking on evil bay but nothing so far and craiglist at my city is not so friendly for photographers.
Thank you,



Jan 08, 2012 at 08:30 PM
michaelwatkins
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p.14 #14 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


A few of us have the VF-2. I'm surprising myself and lately have been shooting more without it than with it; I do believe that is because Mode 2 focus peaking, so-called Predator Mode, is very good - for me it works better than Mode 1 which is similar to the NEX manner of doing things.

Anything you see on the rear LCD you can see via the VF-2.

The VF-2 isn't state of the art and really should be refreshed but if you buy a GXR today and need one, you should buy it without hesitation. I don't find it terribly inferior to the Sony EVF and I've used that one quite a bit... the trick is to not own both at the same time.

A ZM35 (I have the 35 f/2 version) will be about 53mm on the GXR. If you like the 50mm equivalent of 35mm film cameras, the so-called normal view, you'll like the lens. It is a little softer wide open and quickly sharpens up, which in my mind makes it versatile especially on a crop camera. A 28mm or the 25mm might be worth considering if you'll be operating with one lens for some time, if you'd like a slightly wider than 50mm equivalent view. Lately finding any of these has been something of a challenge.




Jan 08, 2012 at 08:49 PM
atran
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p.14 #15 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Hi Mike,

Is it faster and easier using Mode 2 focus peaking/Predator mode on the LCD or the VF? I don't know but I feel a little bit point-and-shot ish shooting through the LCD Just kidding but I feel more comfortable with a viewfinder like I did with a SLR camera Could you talk about a bit about how Mode 2 focus peaking work?

I quite like the ZM-35 focal length and max aperture on a crop sensor but something wide would with same aperture would be ideal. A 28/2 would be great but the Leica is expensive and rare, Zeiss only has 28/2.8, CV has a 28/2 but haven't read much about it. The Zeiss 28/2.8 is in stock at BH though. I don't know what's the deal with M-mount lenses though but they are out of stock everywhere.



Jan 09, 2012 at 12:36 AM
slungu
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p.14 #16 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


I think you can also find the 28 Elmarit ASPH in stock at some stores - but that of course is still a 2.8 and double the price of the ZM.


Jan 09, 2012 at 12:50 AM
atran
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p.14 #17 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


slungu wrote:
I think you can also find the 28 Elmarit ASPH in stock at some stores - but that of course is still a 2.8 and double the price of the ZM.

Yeah some are available in the US. However being quite expensive and I don't really know how good it is



Jan 09, 2012 at 11:06 AM
michaelwatkins
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p.14 #18 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


atran, like you I came to these sorts of cameras with notions of the importance of viewfinders. For me the key thing is that I'm farsighted and can find it uncomfortable to work with the camera at arms length; if I need to pull the camera in closer to my body for bracing purposes, I'm not able to focus my eyes on the rear LCD without a lot of effort causing eyestrain. When tired I wouldn't be able to focus at all. For that reason I'm always going to need a viewfinder with a diopter adjustment.

In real life use with both the NEX-5N and Ricoh GXR I've found that I use the finder less than I'd imagined.

It may be easy to associate the look of someone holding a live view camera in front of their body, as Michael Reichmann once said, like holding a smelly diaper far away, with using a "point and shoot". Trust me, you will soon dispense with the notion once you start using a really good live view compact with a high quality lens up front.

There are a number of advantages to operating the camera in this way. You get some sense of what a rangefinder viewfinder gives you in that you see more of the scene with your peripheral vision, with a picture, no, a "window" frame in the middle of your vision containing the image you will make. This can be handy when timing the right moment, particularly with the Ricoh because there is some finder lag in the current implementation. When using the camera this way you may fit in better with the point-and-shooters and for some subjects this will make you appear less threatening than someone armed with a big DSLR or your camera which can compete, image quality wise, with the majority of DSLRs out there.

This all said I still like to use the viewfinder; if shooting more contemplatively without a tripod I'd probably always use it. When lying on a floor taking photos of my twin niece and nephew I use the finder. The camera isn't ideal for sports but I use it for the odd snapshot of sports my kids are involved in anyway, often with a medium telephoto up front, and I prefer the finder for using that lens - partly because it adds to camera bracing against the head.

Longer focal lengths tend to be easier to nail critical focus but even down to the ZM25 I find obtaining critical focus pretty easy although I do open the lens (any lens), focus, and stop down most of the time.



Jan 09, 2012 at 11:27 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.14 #19 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


atran wrote:
I don't know what's the deal with M-mount lenses though but they are out of stock everywhere.


You will se more and more available soon. My local supplier told me a large batch has been produced in december.



Jan 09, 2012 at 11:38 AM
michaelwatkins
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p.14 #20 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Edward, the large batch being produced - is that from Cosina? It'd be nice to see ZM's showing up again, especially the Sonnar 1,5/50 I've had on back order.


Jan 09, 2012 at 12:15 PM
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