freaklikeme wrote:
So the GXR with the APS-C M-mount module will price out between the NEX-5N kit and the NEX-7 body-only. While I'm sure the module will be snapped up by current GXR users, will it bring a new audience to Ricoh's singular design and photographer-friendly interface, or has Sony (and makers of fine adapters everywhere) locked it up?
Good question. I was leaning towards the GXR with M module, but like the NEX-7 for the design of the built-in EVF that maintains the compactness of previous NEX cameras. I think the Ricoh EVF is around $250, so all combined, it's not much different than the NEX-7, yet the EVF adds bulk to the overall dimensions. That said, I'm still interested in the Ricoh, but am leaning towards the NEX. A deciding factor may be which of the two is the quietest.
rscheffler wrote:
At the moment they don't really have to enter the mirrorless market because OVFs are still as good or better...
Maybe with the high-end APS-C and 135 cameras, but I think most would argue that current EVFs are certainly better in many ways than the OVFs in most low to mid-range aps-c cameras. The fact that Michael Reichmann is even attempting to compare the NEX-7 EVF to the A900 OVF speaks volumes.
@millsart Sure as well many a Leica owners may be considering it now, because it should work fantastic with their current glass.
I do!
I have the NEX-5 since a few weeks and like the weight, handling and the focus aids! But it shows color shift even with the moderate 28mm/2.8 Elmarit (170g light)!
if interested, here are the pictures
You got a tilt screen, great EVF, ability to record movies, lots of cool features that can make it more than just a Leica backup,
partially true, tilt screnn with liveview is an advantage, as long it is not to bright sun.
the most "cool features" will not work with lenses mounted on an adapter!
but I'd wager that a large majority of Leica shooters want a Leica because its a Leica, a true rangefinder. There are some of course who simply want the smallest FF body and would rather a more "modern" camera, but for most, shooting a Leica is as much about shooting a RF as it is about the great IQ. Even if, and its a huge if, the IQ of the NEX7 is equal or even better than what a M9 can achieve, and even though the NEX7 would give a tilt LCD, liveview, great EVF etc and cost thousands of dollars less, I just can't see most Leica shooters switching to it because again, its not going to be like shooting a traditional RF camera....Show more →
FF is completely unimportant, as long as you get the desired IQ!!
the only advantage is the high ISO with bigger pixels and true wide angle down to real 15mm (or 18mm with my 18mm Super Elmar).
safcraft wrote:
If Sony (or Cosina/Voigt/Zeiss) can make an AF prime lens 21mm to 35mm with a minimum of f2 aperture, at the size of the RF glass (like X100 did) they will sell like hotcakes..
Small WA lens designs are not only possible, they are also not extravagant as they have been made for rangefinders the past 50 years+.
So...it's the sensor design that limits the lens sizes, not the lens design. With that in mind, shouldn't Sony be making a sensor specific to the NEX requirements? Maybe the new (3C, 5N, 7) sensors are indeed done that way and the next WAs will come out pretty small?
Wishful thinking?
Aug 25, 2011 at 02:57 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
rscheffler wrote:
They get away with it by not having to:
1) design tele-centric lenses (at least prior to digital)
2) incorporate AF drive
3) incorporate auto aperture
What you see with a rangefinder lens is generally the bare minimum needed to hold the elements in place, include a focusing helicoid and direct mechanical aperture connection. If you look at the block diagram for the Zeiss 24 f/1.8 for NEX, you'll see that the optics are housed in a much fatter than necessary housing in order to accommodate AF, etc. It's the same for the Panasonic pancake m4/3 lenses. They're very short, but still very fat....Show more →
You forgot one other factor--vignetting. Traditionally rangefinder cameras have allowed a lot more vignetting than DSLRs. For example, the ZM 35 f/2 has about 50% light loss in the corners at f/4 whereas the ZE 35 f/2 has about 25% light loss. Allowing such high vignetting allows lenses to have a smaller diameter and consequently allows them to be smaller. I would not be surprised that as ILC cameras with EVFs mature that lenses will get skinnier and the vignetting will be compensated for by software, but for now DSLR lens typically correct more for vignetting that rangefinder lenses.
FlyPenFly wrote:
So looks like there will be a $400 device adapter thing that will let you AF Alpha lenses on to the NEX.
This is actually pretty compelling. Buy a NEX-7, enjoy ALTERNATIVE LENSES galore as you can adapt anything, also enjoy excellent native AF ZA Zeiss lenses!
The NEX7 will also be a very compact backup camera that won't take up nearly as much room in the bag.
Yakim Peled wrote:
I think so too but where are they?
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
who knows. possibly, canon and nikon are purposefully letting others create and establish the category; sitting back while these companies cultivate the market. canikon can jump in with their brand recognition and market share inertia when they feel it's worth their while (offensively or defensively, or both), taking advantage of a ready-made product segment and market.
just a guess, though i'm not sure where the new Q-esque nikon mirrorless would fit into that concept.
cheers
edit: back quickly to the NEX-7 -- " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">this NEX-7 hands-on might have been posted already, but i found it interesting for it's 360 views, and for giving a decent idea of size. cheers
traveler wrote:
I'm not sure why people are obsessing over whether or not the new crop of Sony cameras will be good or not. Of COURSE they will be wonderful photographic tools, and nicely made as well. If the camera meets your expectations it's perfect. If not you'll probably sell it. But why oh why go nuts in the mean time. I doubt there is anything they won't be able to handle over all. Brand love isn't anything new. Just order it, get it, get to know it and USE it. The rest is history. I'm sure all of them will produce prints larger than you need to print. Web size images will delight. What's not to like? I'm sure you'll come up with SOMETHING it doesn't do, but then there is NO perfect camera. Just enjoy...Show more →
d.topp wrote:
the most "cool features" will not work with lenses mounted on an adapter!
dierk
what "cool features" won't work with adapted lenses? i just use ASM modes and adapted lenses on my NEX, but in camera HDR and panorama worked fine the one time i tried them. peaking, the most important one, works just fine. what am i missing by using adapted lenses other than autofocus?
denoir wrote:
To my knowledge there's no fast 24mm that produces good corners wide open, or actually good anything wide open - except for producing a certain look.
If you look at the original problem that fast 24s were developed to solve, giving photographers their "normal" FOV and DOF at roughly half the shooting distance of fast normals, then I think there's a segment of shooters, reportage and event where crowds build at the least opportune moments and space is always at a premium, who are truly thrilled by the 24L II. And justifiably so. The extreme edges suffer, but otherwise it's a well-corrected pleasure to use.
rscheffler wrote:
Good question. I was leaning towards the GXR with M module, but like the NEX-7 for the design of the built-in EVF that maintains the compactness of previous NEX cameras. I think the Ricoh EVF is around $250, so all combined, it's not much different than the NEX-7, yet the EVF adds bulk to the overall dimensions. That said, I'm still interested in the Ricoh, but am leaning towards the NEX. A deciding factor may be which of the two is the quietest.
That's interesting. I was talking about this with a couple of friends who shoot only RF, and they never brought that up as a factor, but it's always been such a big selling point for the RFs. They did mention the dedicated mount of the GXR being a factor, even though they're both aware of the adapters available for the NEX.
abam wrote: edit: back quickly to the NEX-7 -- " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">this NEX-7 hands-on might have been posted already, but i found it interesting for it's 360 views, and for giving a decent idea of size. cheers
It really is hard to watch that video and restrain oneself from ordering the damn thing. The NEX 7 is one fine camera body!
I wish, in that video, they had mounted the Zeiss to the NEX-7 so we can get a better idea how it looks size wise (though this was done in the promo video). It looks roughly the same size as the Kit zoom lens if not a little smaller.
Glancing at the MTF I think if I want something smaller and a little more balanced (in regards to stopped down performance) I may just spring for the ZM 25/2.8 instead.
Edit: Just read some specs and the Zeiss 24/1.8 is actually smaller (in length) than the ZM 25/2.8. Although I'm not sure if the Z 24/1.8 measurements are with the caps...
Zeiss 24/1.8: 63mm diameter x 65.5mm length (with caps?)
Zeiss ZM 25/2.8: 53mm diameter x 71mm length (with caps)
bluetsunami wrote:
I wish, in that video, they had mounted the Zeiss to the NEX-7 so we can get a better idea how it looks size wise (though this was done in the promo video). It looks roughly the same size as the Kit zoom lens if not a little smaller.
I believe, if my memory serves me correctly, the Zeiss 24mm is a few millimeters longer than the kit zoom, and slightly bigger around. Really, the 30 Macro, 24 Zeiss, kit zoom, and 50/1.8 are all roughly the same size, more or less.
traveler wrote:
I'm not sure why people are obsessing over whether or not the new crop of Sony cameras will be good or not. Of COURSE they will be wonderful photographic tools, and nicely made as well. If the camera meets your expectations it's perfect. If not you'll probably sell it. But why oh why go nuts in the mean time. I doubt there is anything they won't be able to handle over all. Brand love isn't anything new. Just order it, get it, get to know it and USE it. The rest is history. I'm sure all of them will produce prints larger than you need to print. Web size images will delight. What's not to like? I'm sure you'll come up with SOMETHING it doesn't do, but then there is NO perfect camera. Just enjoy...Show more →
Because for many people, getting and talking about gear is more important than actually shooting the gear (not saying there is anything wrong with that)
I've known Harley owners who really only ride the bike at a means to get to the bike gatherings where they can wear Harley gear and sit around drinking beers with other guys who like to talk bikes. Their passion is the culture, friendship and the machines but not actually being out riding them.
Sometimes its cooler to get a new lens just to be able to show off to your buddies that your the first on your given forum to have it, your the center of attention for a bit, everyone wants to know your thoughts.
I mean heck, I'm sure UPS drops off a package and some people are torn between taking picture OF the lens, vs taking pictures WITH the lens right ??
If everyone where was really all about taking images, we wouldn't post much, we'd be out shooting. Not that we don't shoot, but talking about cameras, lenses etc here isn't just about answering a specific tech question, its about community, sharing common interest etc.
Just the nature of forums really.
I used to be really into playing guitar and it was all about who got the newest amp, or handmade effects pedals etc.
Its just talk about a lens instead of a distortion pedal on this particular site
Wow, very hard to keep up w/ all the information.
Suffice it to say, I was one of the naive hopefuls wishing for a FF Nex 7.
I RARELY use my crop body anymore after getting my 5DMkII, 2 yrs + now? Something like that.
I was wishing for a FF Nex 7 for the manual lens usage, I am firmly addicted now.
Have to wait and see what/if Canon does anything.
Then there is a mirrorless coming from Leica, yes? Probably will NEVER be able to afford it though...
And something from the LULA site I haven't seen talk of here, concerning Leica,
Kodak is not building any new sensor designs? That seems strange to me...
Oh, the Nikon mirrorless info leak is an instant no, it has a P&S sized sensor.
Sigh...
