Philber: I think it's pretty much guaranteed no matter what the performance relative to it's competitors, people will defend it like their own child since it says Zeiss on it. Don't get me wrong, I love Zeiss but it seems from other forums, if you say one bad thing about a Zeiss lens you've slapped someone else's child on the neck.
I pre-ordered the NEX-7 on launch day and I hope to god it arrives before I go on a huge multi country vacation in mid October but I doubt it.
My hope is, the NEX-7 will play nice with the M mount Voigtlander 40mm F1.4. I don't think there should be a problem with it since its not a wide angle... I hope.
Its a pancake lens and I think I prefer 50mm+ most of the time for an everyday carry.
FlyPenFly wrote:
Philber: I think it's pretty much guaranteed no matter what the performance relative to it's competitors, people will defend it like their own child since it says Zeiss on it. Don't get me wrong, I love Zeiss but it seems from other forums, if you say one bad thing about a Zeiss lens you've slapped someone else's child on the neck.
I pre-ordered the NEX-7 on launch day and I hope to god it arrives before I go on a huge multi country vacation in mid October but I doubt it.
My hope is, the NEX-7 will play nice with the M mount Voigtlander 40mm F1.4. I don't think there should be a problem with it since its not a wide angle... I hope....Show more →
I thought I read the NEX-7 release date was not until November!
I was fairly disappointed with the performance of the ZA 24 F2 in the corners so I do think there is a question mark regarding this 24 1.8. I read this a while back which does not bode well:
"According to the source the Zeiss 24mm f/1.8 has a nice Bokeh but corner sharpness wide open is not on very top high level. "
Tariq, I can't find the MTFs right now, but the Zeiss 24/1.8 doesn't look sharp in the corners, wide open.
As for wides on NEX, I agree that the wide-zoom coming next year will probably the first good wide, although I still think I'll be able to use the 16+.75x converter and just crop out a few effective focal length millimeters, and that'll be a usable 20mm-ish lens...but that is no excuse.
I'm not sure why people are obsessing over whether or not the new crop of Sony cameras will be good or not. Of COURSE they will be wonderful photographic tools, and nicely made as well. If the camera meets your expectations it's perfect. If not you'll probably sell it. But why oh why go nuts in the mean time. I doubt there is anything they won't be able to handle over all. Brand love isn't anything new. Just order it, get it, get to know it and USE it. The rest is history. I'm sure all of them will produce prints larger than you need to print. Web size images will delight. What's not to like? I'm sure you'll come up with SOMETHING it doesn't do, but then there is NO perfect camera. Just enjoy
just thought I'd chime in as an observer.... after seeing the pictures of the new nex-7 with the 24/1.8 zeiss in an actual persons hand (pictures linked to in this thread) I can't believe that so many people are still bitching about its size... oh, and I'm holding my gripped 5D + ZE 35/1.4 right now it's all relative
douglasf13 wrote:
Tariq, I can't find the MTFs right now, but the Zeiss 24/1.8 doesn't look sharp in the corners, wide open.
As for wides on NEX, I agree that the wide-zoom coming next year will probably the first good wide, although I still think I'll be able to use the 16+.75x converter and just crop out a few effective focal length millimeters, and that'll be a usable 20mm-ish lens...but that is no excuse.
Yeah, I saw the MTF's and they also show a pretty big dip down to 40 even at F8! here it is:
douglasf13 wrote:
Tariq, I can't find the MTFs right now, but the Zeiss 24/1.8 doesn't look sharp in the corners, wide open.
To my knowledge there's no fast 24mm that produces good corners wide open, or actually good anything wide open - except for producing a certain look. The new Zeiss seems to be somewhat better than the Leica 24 Lux ASPH at max aperture, although it doesn't look that great at f/8. The Leica is a bit smaller, much heavier but on the other hand covers a FF image circle.
It's the curse of the crop sensor. Building a good fast 24mm lens is much more difficult compared to building a good fast 35mm lens.
I wouldn't be worried about the performance wide open, it looks pretty good for what it is. The f/8 performance does seem to be a bit lacking though.
denoir wrote:
To my knowledge there's no fast 24mm that produces good corners wide open, or actually good anything wide open - except for producing a certain look.
I think that both the 24mm f/3.8 ASPH and the 24mm f/2.8 ASPH are probably good and sharp wide open, right into the corners. I think you aren't talking about M lenses though.
Fast 24mm lenses, Carsten, I said fast - i.e f/1.4 or larger. And the comment about the 24 Lux ASPH might indicate that I was indeed including M lenses in the statement.
denoir wrote:
To my knowledge there's no fast 24mm that produces good corners wide open, or actually good anything wide open - except for producing a certain look. The new Zeiss seems to be somewhat better than the Leica 24 Lux ASPH at max aperture, although it doesn't look that great at f/8. The Leica is a bit smaller, much heavier but on the other hand covers a FF image circle.
It's the curse of the crop sensor. Building a good fast 24mm lens is much more difficult compared to building a good fast 35mm lens.
I wouldn't be worried about the performance wide open, it looks pretty good for what it is. The f/8 performance does seem to be a bit lacking though. ...Show more →
This is probably why I will not go all in for a high end NEX system. Wide open performance could be forgiven but not stopped down. The MTF makes the Zeiss 24 1.8 for the NEX appear that it will only deliver superb results in the central area and perhaps at the very far corners stopped down. That huge dip seems problematic for the NEX-7 on paper.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
This is probably why I will not go all in for a high end NEX system. Wide open performance could be forgiven but not stopped down. The MTF makes the Zeiss 24 1.8 for the NEX appear that it will only deliver superb results in the central area and perhaps at the very far corners stopped down. That huge dip seems problematic for the NEX-7 on paper.
Yeah, now that Sony seems to be improving sensor corner performance, I may re-investigate the ultra wide CV lenses.
douglasf13 wrote:
Yeah, now that Sony seems to be improving sensor corner performance, I may re-investigate the ultra wide CV lenses.
I keep checking to see if CV has announced their NEX compatible lenses. They supposedly are coming. By the time the NEX-7 is finally released, perhaps something might be available.
"standard" kit lenses just won't cut it on 24 Mp APS-C sensors . What lenses Sony will decide to include in Alpha 77 and NEX 7 "kits" will be interesting.
Regarding Tariq's comment, I agree. It will be interesting to see how well Sony's forthcoming G-series zoom performs on the wide end.
philber wrote:
"standard" kit lenses just won't cut it on 24 Mp APS-C sensors . What lenses Sony will decide to include in Alpha 77 and NEX 7 "kits" will be interesting.
Regarding Tariq's comment, I agree. It will be interesting to see how well Sony's forthcoming G-series zoom performs on the wide end.
The NEX-7 comes with a black version of the 18-55 kit lens which has been sold with earlier NEX's. Unless they have made some sort of optical changes (I have not read they have), this lens is not going to cut it.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
The NEX-7 comes with a black version of the 18-55 kit lens which has been sold with earlier NEX's. Unless they have made some sort of optical changes (I have not read they have), this lens is not going to cut it.
I actually pre-ordered the camera with this zoom, but only for home video use. The wide-angle zoom next year should hopefully be the answer.
As for CV, I was referring to the M mount 12mm and 15mm, but, you're right that hopefully some good 3rd party wides come for E mount.
denoir wrote:
To my knowledge there's no fast 24mm that produces good corners wide open, or actually good anything wide open - except for producing a certain look. The new Zeiss seems to be somewhat better than the Leica 24 Lux ASPH at max aperture, although it doesn't look that great at f/8. The Leica is a bit smaller, much heavier but on the other hand covers a FF image circle.
It's the curse of the crop sensor. Building a good fast 24mm lens is much more difficult compared to building a good fast 35mm lens.
The Samyang 35/1.4 has better corner sharpness than the 35/1.4 L. One may hope that the recently announced Samyang 24/1.4 will have better corner sharpness than the 24/1.4 II L.
I don't think Canon and Nikon can afford NOT to compete if they plan to be selling cameras five years from now!
Maybe they're doing what Sony apparently did with the NEX-7 and A77 - that is, wait even longer for the EVF technology to improve. At the moment they don't really have to enter the mirrorless market because OVFs are still as good or better and they have mature and very extensive SLR systems that allow users to upgrade within the system as they improve. It's a huge profit driver for both. In comparison the Sony A system is not as deep and the E and m4/3 systems offer even fewer upgrade options (both in terms of lenses and sensor formats).
FlyPenFly wrote:
How does Leica M mount get away with such small lenses on ff?
They get away with it by not having to:
1) design tele-centric lenses (at least prior to digital)
2) incorporate AF drive
3) incorporate auto aperture
What you see with a rangefinder lens is generally the bare minimum needed to hold the elements in place, include a focusing helicoid and direct mechanical aperture connection. If you look at the block diagram for the Zeiss 24 f/1.8 for NEX, you'll see that the optics are housed in a much fatter than necessary housing in order to accommodate AF, etc. It's the same for the Panasonic pancake m4/3 lenses. They're very short, but still very fat.
it's all relative