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Archive 2011 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

millsart
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p.13 #1 · p.13 #1 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

JimBuchanan wrote:
Where is the value, related to this thread, in this post?

It was a message directed at the experience another fellow forum member had and saying sorry to hear of their loss. Its something one would think a fellow photographer would do if any of us had a loss of their gear.

How might I ask does your post contribute any more specific value ??

Aug 24, 2011 at 09:57 PM

bigkidneys
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p.13 #2 · p.13 #2 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

JimBuchanan wrote:
Where is the value, related to this thread, in this post?

Are you kidding Jim? This post is not aimed at him in any negative way. He had some gear stolen in the past and it's simply a statement that he has been on the unfortunate side of stolen gear lately.

Aug 24, 2011 at 10:05 PM

JimBuchanan
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p.13 #3 · p.13 #3 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

OK, folks, sorry to ruffle a few feathers. It's usually not my policy to police these threads, but my absolute main interest in monitoring this specific thread is to try and understand if the latest release of LR3 will repeat the results denoir reported using the Sony software with the new NEX-C3. Specifically, does the latest LR version processing of NEX RAW files duplicate the excellent corner performance of the Sony RAW software in regards to color shift and vignetting? I don't think I am alone, wanting to know the answer to this question.

philber noted in his post that the NEX C3 was a big improvement over the NEX5, and I too am sorry that his camera was stolen.

millsart wrote:
It was a message directed at the experience another fellow forum member had and saying sorry to hear of their loss. Its something one would think a fellow photographer would do if any of us had a loss of their gear.

In part, maybe, but the bulk of the post was self centered about bigkidneys buying habits.

bigkidneys wrote:
Jesus Philipe, I think someone has a painted target on you and your gear. Sorry to hear that but I guess it's one way to justify trying something new

Me on the other hand, just says screw it and buys it without justification... Just picked up an X100 to go with my Nex 5 which may seem somewhat redundant but I really like the portability especially with the traveling I get to do on occasion.

millsart wrote:
How might I ask does your post contribute any more specific value ??

Keeping the thread on topic?

bigkidneys wrote:
Are you kidding Jim? This post is not aimed at him in any negative way. He had some gear stolen in the past and it's simply a statement that he has been on the unfortunate side of stolen gear lately.

Once again, sorry to interfere with your concerns. I guess I took it wrong.

I am in fact anxious to return on topic and look forward to denoir's confirmation that LR RAW processing will duplicate the improved corner performance of the Sony software with the new NEX C3.

Edited on Aug 25, 2011 at 04:34 AM · View previous versions

Aug 25, 2011 at 12:04 AM

philber
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p.13 #4 · p.13 #4 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

Guys, thanks for the sympathy, but it was basically my fault. MY 5D II was taken because I shifted it to the trunk of my car in the street, somebody saw it and broke into the car to pop th trunk. So I thought I would be OK if I put my camera bag in the trunk when heading out, thus not messing with it in public; That day, I took both bags, 5DII and NEX. I debated whether I wanted a camera with me, and which one, and chose to go with the 5DII, which I took out of the car in the parking lot. When I came back, the NEX bag was gone. Which means even opening the trunk is a giveaway. Now, nothing stays in the car. Anything else is my fault. As for the NEX 5 itself, it ha pretty much outlived its usefulness, as it was a given that I would upgrade to a better NEX once they were out, and its resale value would be vey low. But I had with it 2 ZM lenses, one Contax G 90, two adapters and a nice Kata bag. All in all, maybe 2000�. That is the cost of carelessness.

Aug 25, 2011 at 01:13 AM

philber
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p.13 #5 · p.13 #5 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

Luka, as to your feeling about C3 pictures, my comment is as follows, and I apologise for its lengthiness. When I owned a 5D II and a NEX, there was no doubt in my mind that the 5D II pics were substantially better. There was something just a bit artificial to the NEX. Only when posting on the Net, the reduction of quality took most of that issue away, but it is definitely there in full resolution.
Based on only very few pictures, the C3 is substantially better than the 5 where the 5 was already quite good: colours, contrast, white balance. But it still has this "artificialness" to it. So how to define it, now that you put my feet to the fire? The images have a "hollow" feel. I see all the colours and volumes, but there is no materiality to them, no feel. With the 5D II, at times, I feel I can touch what is in the picture. With the NEX, it is only a reproduction, and the C3 is better in this respect, but not that much.
Another symptom appears when loooking at transitions, like flower edges. The NEX 5 rendered with the edge looking jagged, and the transition was not at all natural when viewed at 100%. That has to do with the rendering of very fine detail, and my opinion is that the NEX5 did not have much of it, which is very common in consumer cameras, because a lot of detail takes away from the immediate perception of sharpness, and some smoothing helps the noise performance. My guess is that the C3 is going down the same path.
Incidentally, let me compare with other cameras to put my comments in perspective. I tried the much ballihoed Fuji X-100, and it is worse in this respect. No more very fine detail, and no lovely NEX colours. Canon 40D: not as "good" as the NEX, but more "feel" to the pics. Leica M8: the opposite of the NEX: gobs of fine detail, but the colours and contrast weren't so well executed, giving the impression of a very beautiful painting rather than a realistic reproduction. Leica M9: pretty much the best of both worlds, providing I spent the time on each and every shot to do fairly significant PP.
Again incidentally, the Nikon D7000 has been criticized for the smoothing of detail in favor of clarity and noise performance. As it has the same sensor as the C3, it could be a Sony sensor "thing", so it might not be all that much better with the NEX 7, and could explain how Sony "get away" with 24 Mp on an APS-C chip.
Just my $0.02.

Aug 25, 2011 at 01:53 AM

ceder
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p.13 #6 · p.13 #6 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

Luka - first thanks for the comparison - but now that LR3 is working, could you try and print the images at A3 size and compare (just a slice, not an entire A3)? Pixel peeping at 100% is one thing, a print another - think the difference will be hard to detect standing 1.5 feet away.

I must say the quality even on screen is surprisingly good - so the Nex-5N should work as a back-up for crop DSLRs. The Nex-7 did not look so good, or rather the SLT-A77 - look at base ISO samples at Dpreview, lots of noise in the blue sky etc. I think I am more interested in the Nex-5N due to that...

Brittle images? Well, also the EOS 5D II is a bit sensitive, I prefer spot on exposures - is the Nex-3 really that much worse, or are you more used to handling M9 files now? (Is M9 that much better for post-work? Perhaps almost as good as Nikon D3X?).

Would be nice to see a comparison between Leica S2 or Pentax 645D with M9 as well (you already own heavy gear, and expensive) - just for fun. (Maybe can be done at a camera store - the ultimate quality test, you know you want to).

Aug 25, 2011 at 05:07 AM

ceder
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p.13 #7 · p.13 #7 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

Oh, forgot to ask why the M9 is so hard for tripod work?

And how good is the peak focus on the NEX? How many keepers do you get with it, and how many with your M9?

Cheers!

Aug 25, 2011 at 06:20 AM

denoir
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p.13 #8 · p.13 #8 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

ceder wrote:
Luka - first thanks for the comparison - but now that LR3 is working, could you try and print the images at A3 size and compare (just a slice, not an entire A3)? Pixel peeping at 100% is one thing, a print another - think the difference will be hard to detect standing 1.5 feet away.

I'm the wrong man for that job. I don't print a lot and when I do I let a lab do it. I wouldn't know how to go about doing such a test.

Brittle images? Well, also the EOS 5D II is a bit sensitive, I prefer spot on exposures - is the Nex-3 really that much worse, or are you more used to handling M9 files now? (Is M9 that much better for post-work? Perhaps almost as good as Nikon D3X?).

Hmm.. yes, you are right the 5DII files don't handle much twisting well. The shadows are particularly problematic at low ISO. However typically when using high contrast Zeiss lenses I never have to touch the files. The camera does a lot of PP for you through the Picture Styles that are automatically applied. The M9 on the other hand produces very flat RAW files and you usually have to do a bit of curves adjustments - usually just crushing the blacks a bit. The good thing is that the files are extremely pliable with only one exception - highlight recovery where it is worse than the 5DII.

The NEX-C3 is somewhere in between - I usually have to do a bit of curves adjustments there as well and that's where the problems start. It's almost like working on a JPEG image - even with relatively minor changes it starts to fall apart. It's not just that noise goes up a lot but the changes are simply very crude and the color transitions and separations suffer. Ultimately the result looks artificially overprocessed. And if you don't do it, it looks flat.

Perhaps with some training I can get better at balancing those things but the margins are far smaller than what I'm used to.

I have some examples that show this pretty well, but they were not shot under identical conditions so I might do a proper side-by comparison later and post them here.

Would be nice to see a comparison between Leica S2 or Pentax 645D with M9 as well (you already own heavy gear, and expensive) - just for fun. (Maybe can be done at a camera store - the ultimate quality test, you know you want to).

Hehe, no I don't want to. I'm terrified of it. I know that the S2 and the 645D will make the M9 look like a basic P&S in comparison. No, I don't want to go down that road - I really like the compact size of the M9 system and I don't want to be tempted away from it. Give me an M10 with a high res screen, M6 form factor and live view and I'll be as happy as a clam

Aug 25, 2011 at 07:05 AM

denoir
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p.13 #9 · p.13 #9 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

ceder wrote:
Oh, forgot to ask why the M9 is so hard for tripod work?

First, the M9's viewfinder has parallax compensation - i.e the frame lines move around when you change focus. So you must focus before you do the framing. And changing the framing is very cumbersome when the camera is attached to the tripod. It's quite common that you end up messing up the focus while you are moving around the tripod. Since you only see the focus in the rangefinder patch in the center of the frame, you can't really see if you have messed it up or not if the focus point doesn't happen to be center frame. So you have to try to guess by zooming in on the image on the (low res) LCD using an image preview that doesn't allow you to check pixels at 100%.

Second, frame lines are approximate. If you want a very exact composition it is easy to take a couple of handheld shots until you get it perfect. On a tripod this is a cumbersome process because of the first point.

Third, when doing long exposures (that's when I use a tripod) it does mandatory noise reduction that is as long as the exposure time.

And how good is the peak focus on the NEX? How many keepers do you get with it, and how many with your M9?

It's OK as a first approximation but I often don't get perfect focus. When I really want to be sure I use the magnification function. As for the M9, as long as it's not moving, I generally don't miss focus. The keeper rate is far higher than what I get with my 5DII and manual focus glass and missing focus (on a stationary subject) is very rare.

Aug 25, 2011 at 07:15 AM

philber
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p.13 #10 · p.13 #10 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

Sep 06, 2011 at 11:48 PM

philber
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p.13 #11 · p.13 #11 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

I have now added shots on my C3 during my 4-day holiday in Istanbul. Here are my additional findings:
1: colour and contrast are very good indeed, often more natural than my 5DII !
2: the amount of detail is, with good alt glass, remarkable.
3: dynamic range is excellent, at least as good as 5DII
4: noise performance is very good, with really clean shots at ISO 1000, but not ISO 1600

All of this concurs with Snowboarder's excellent opinion of his NEX 5N, and is a significant upgrade from my already satisfactory NEX5.

As so often said, the key is glass, the present Sony offering being insufficient. I tried my Contax 35-70 with predictably excellent results, but it is far too bulky and heavy for a NEX. I tried the Contax G28. while colour and resolution are of the highest standard, and while colour shift is gone, corner sharpness is still a pipe dream, which was a major disappointment. this lens also confuses the metering often enough that manuel metering is preferred/required. I am therefore very skeptical at this stage of wide Contax G glass on C3/5N and wait to see more pics with wide rangefinder lenses.

More soon as I process the shots.

Sep 06, 2011 at 11:48 PM

Jerry_R
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p.13 #12 · p.13 #12 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

Thanks!

philber wrote:
4: noise performance is very good, with really clean shots at ISO 1000, but not ISO 1600
Question is not how noisy is 1600, but how many details remained.
What I observed with NEX-5 - was less noise and less details than in u43 or M9.

I do prefer more details, as I develop RAWs myself.

Sep 07, 2011 at 09:13 AM

philber
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p.13 #13 · p.13 #13 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

Jerry, as I wrote earlier, my C3 retains much more detail than my NEX 5 did. Without a doubt. What sort of shot would you like to see, in case, I have one?

Sep 07, 2011 at 03:06 PM

Jerry_R
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p.13 #14 · p.13 #14 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

Thanks, that is encouraging.
If you have a portrait - would be nice.

Sep 07, 2011 at 03:27 PM

DamonJoyce
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p.13 #15 · p.13 #15 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

philber wrote:
I tried the Contax G28. while colour and resolution are of the highest standard, and while colour shift is gone, corner sharpness is still a pipe dream, which was a major disappointment. this lens also confuses the metering often enough that manuel metering is preferred/required. I am therefore very skeptical at this stage of wide Contax G glass on C3/5N and wait to see more pics with wide rangefinder lenses.

I'd be interested in seeing some shots from the 28mm. I'm thinking about getting one, but I keep hearing conflicting reports of the corner sharpness.

Sep 07, 2011 at 05:41 PM

WT21
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p.13 #16 · p.13 #16 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

pinging thread, just to subscribe

Oct 01, 2011 at 08:57 AM

dcjs
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p.13 #17 · p.13 #17 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

philber wroteI tried the Contax G28. while colour and resolution are of the highest standard, and while colour shift is gone, corner sharpness is still a pipe dream, which was a major disappointment. this lens also confuses the metering often enough that manuel metering is preferred/required. I am therefore very skeptical at this stage of wide Contax G glass on C3/5N and wait to see more pics with wide rangefinder lenses.

More soon as I process the shots.

philber,

since you have the 5N now, how is your G28 behaving regarding corner sharpness? I have seen some very good images from the G28/5N combination (technical and subjective/drawing style), but nothing meaningful from the C3, and this statement of yours has me somewhat confused. Is there a difference in performance (corner sharpness-wise) between the C3 and the 5N with the G28?

Regards,

David

Dec 04, 2011 at 12:41 PM

FlyPenFly
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p.13 #18 · p.13 #18 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

I'm convinced the sensors have subtle differences between the c3 and 5n. I had no color shift on the 5N with my G 28mm but I did have more and smearing with the C3.

I've been toying with the idea of removing the AA filter of my c3. Anyone remember the shops that do that kind of work?

Feb 20, 2012 at 12:43 PM

michaelwatkins
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p.13 #19 · p.13 #19 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

MaxMax. http://maxmax.com/

I believe Douglas has contacted them about having the AA filter in his 5N removed, but no reply as yet.

Feb 21, 2012 at 12:04 PM

douglasf13
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p.13 #20 · p.13 #20 · Sony NEX-C3 first impressions

michaelwatkins wrote:
MaxMax. http://maxmax.com/

I believe Douglas has contacted them about having the AA filter in his 5N removed, but no reply as yet.

Yep. Nothing yet, after sending a few emails. Odd customer service. I should probably just call them.

Feb 21, 2012 at 12:27 PM

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