Houston, The Einstein has landed
/forum/topic/886861/4

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c.d.embrey
Registered: Aug 21, 2008
Total Posts: 1146
Country: United States

E-Vener wrote:
Can one even purchase Briese gear? My understanding is that was strictly rental and a tech had to come along with it.


Samy's Camera rents Briese umbrellas converted to Profoto packs. No tech needed and I doubt that Briese approves

If the old mount cost $25.00 in maerials and labor by the time t gets to a retail store shelf youhave to add in mark up for the manufacturer, distributor,and retailer. This markup isn't just profit. (nothing wrong with being in business and making a profit) but also various forms of overhead expenses like import duties, warehouse space, salaries, insurances, marketing, transportation. etc. So it might end up adding not $25 or $50 to the price but more like $100-200.00.

That's not what I said. ...than paying $25.00/$50.00 more for a Pro 8 head ain't a BFD. Sure seems to me I'm talking about retail price, not manufactures cost.

But that is not the point. The point is that no-one would notice the difference, 25/50/100/200, whatever -- like I said BFD. Profoto is not price sensitive like ABs. Einstein would not have people lining at $939.00, but adding $500.00 to the price for an 8a won't effect the market. Conversely lowering the price of an 8a by $500.00 wouldn't increase sales either.



E-Vener
Registered: Jun 18, 2009
Total Posts: 4260
Country: United States

Probably not.



Gregg Heckler
Registered: Aug 07, 2005
Total Posts: 1879
Country: United States

Whoa, this thread sure went off-track. I'm still looking forward to some spectacular images only an Einstein can produce.



bacilonur
Registered: Aug 14, 2006
Total Posts: 2705
Country: United States

Mine get here Tuesday :-)



RDKirk
Registered: Apr 11, 2004
Total Posts: 8976
Country: United States

That's not what I said. ...than paying $25.00/$50.00 more for a Pro 8 head ain't a BFD. Sure seems to me I'm talking about retail price, not manufactures cost. But that is not the point. The point is that no-one would notice the difference, 25/50/100/200, whatever -- like I said BFD. Profoto is not price sensitive like ABs. Einstein would not have people lining at $939.00, but adding $500.00 to the price for an 8a won't effect the market. Conversely lowering the price of an 8a by $500.00 wouldn't increase sales either.

I think you missed part of the point that Ellis touched on. Raising the MSRP does not just impact the consumer. It also affects customs, import duties, price-triggered import restrictions, and lots of other issues requiring close legal and accounting scrutiny (and you have to pay them, too), whereas cutting manufacturing costs is pure and simple profit increase.

That's even true in my business. At the very least, raising prices requires me to change my website, change documentation--a lot more headache than simply finding a cheaper source of packaging materials.



kenyee
Registered: Jul 08, 2008
Total Posts: 1528
Country: United States

bacilonur wrote:
Mine get here Tuesday :-)


When you get yours, could you see how many pops you get off your Pelican battery? Curious how well it does compared to a regular bee (i.e., is the IGBT technique more efficient because you don't waste energy on the unused/less visible tail of the pulse?)
Also wondering how well they work in undervoltage situations w/ the CC and RP...



RDKirk
Registered: Apr 11, 2004
Total Posts: 8976
Country: United States

Also wondering how well they work in undervoltage situations w/ the CC and RP...

I believe that's being blamed on the RJ-11 connection of the legacy lights. Einstein doesn't have the RJ-11 connection.



E-Vener
Registered: Jun 18, 2009
Total Posts: 4260
Country: United States

Einstein 640 with metal Chimera Speedring: http://twitpic.com/1ekiah

I kept the lens axis parallel with the front face of the speedring so you can see how much the dome protudes and how the speedring insert fits back against the front of the Einstein.



E-Vener
Registered: Jun 18, 2009
Total Posts: 4260
Country: United States

Front view of Chimera Speedring on Paul CBuff Einstein: http://twitpic.com/1ekmuo



c.d.embrey
Registered: Aug 21, 2008
Total Posts: 1146
Country: United States

RDKirk wrote:

I think you missed part of the point that Ellis touched on. Raising the MSRP does not just impact the consumer. It also affects customs, import duties, price-triggered import restrictions, and lots of other issues requiring close legal and accounting scrutiny (and you have to pay them, too), whereas cutting manufacturing costs is pure and simple profit increase.


I don't understand what is so hard to understand about Retail Price. When you buy something all you care about is the Price You Pay. You Do Not Care about how they arrived at the price. Have you ever asked a salesman how much of the price went to profit, distribution costs or import duties Of course not, Because You Do Not Care. The only thing you care about is perceived value of the item.

Now Back to the Einstein.

Ellis, did you get the new 8.5 reflector with your Einstein. If so how do you like it?



E-Vener
Registered: Jun 18, 2009
Total Posts: 4260
Country: United States

Yes I did. Seems good will start taking real pix next week



CGP4
Registered: Apr 09, 2004
Total Posts: 170
Country: United States

E-Vener wrote:
Front view of Chimera Speedring on Paul CBuff Einstein: http://twitpic.com/1ekmuo


Thanks for posting! I was hoping the dome would projectbfarther forward, but seems to be a by-product of the Balcar mount rather than the fault of the Einstein. (Wish the mount were farther back, like Dynalite or Profoto.). But if you say the spread is good inside a box, I trust you! By any chance, have you tried in a Plume Wafer? I'd be curious to know what baffle, or combination of baffles, it takes to get the diffuser face close to even from center to edge.



Paul Buff
Registered: Oct 06, 2006
Total Posts: 2788
Country: United States

The position of the lamps is dictated by continuity of our accessories back to 1986. The flat backplate is advantageous over the sub reflector in most units as it allows true 180 + non focused output for next generation modifiers such as PLM and the upcoming super sports reflector code named Luap Supreme. It is also advantageous for proper softbox coverage. As for the depth of projection, the lamps project further than 90% of other units.

Regarding Dynalite and similar, unless one is willing to use a very opaque and lossy dome, it is the position of the lamps rather than the dome that determines source position. Given an improved design of the speedring insert to better take advantage of the flat backplate, softbox performance can be improved over lights with built in sub-reflector and consequent lack of lamp projection into the box and the detrimental focusing effects of the sub reflector on box performance. But I can't redesign the entire world in a day.

As for some of the Profoto pictures I have seen . . . look at all the light that is lost in the dark tunnel behind the lamp plate and the back sides of the reflector. Focusable? Yeh, but not very efficient. No wonder everyone needs 2400WS to do a 600WS job. Efficacy is a large part of my design effort



kenyee
Registered: Jul 08, 2008
Total Posts: 1528
Country: United States

RDKirk wrote:
I believe that's being blamed on the RJ-11 connection of the legacy lights. Einstein doesn't have the RJ-11 connection.


True, but AFAIK, some of the electronics is digital inside (microprocessors, firmware, etc.), unlike the old Bees/WL/Zeus which were all analog (even the RJ11 is an opamp design). Digital gear typically doesn't like undervoltage/brownouts because the CPUs end up glitching an crashing...

p.s., FWIW, I never noticed uniformity issues w/ a plume wafer and bees or WL either...the wafer's middle insert tends to add a bit of uniformity issue when you use it...



photomarvin
Registered: Sep 23, 2005
Total Posts: 1789
Country: United States

Paul, I'm curious have you ever personally used Profoto gear? You seem to make some pretty bold statements about your competition...It's nice you are allowed to be on this forum to not only tell us about AB stuff but to tell us why all the other manufacturers are doing it incorrectly.



Paul Buff
Registered: Oct 06, 2006
Total Posts: 2788
Country: United States

I don't compete with Profoto and have nothing against them. We serve different markets Just pointing out some engineering observations in response to comments about AB vs Profoto: Read AB sucks, Profoto is God like. I didn't say they were doing things incorrectly.



Kacey
Registered: Nov 24, 2009
Total Posts: 136
Country: United States

Paul Buff wrote:
I don't compete with Profoto and have nothing against them. We serve different markets Just pointing out some engineering observations in response to comments about AB vs Profoto: Read AB sucks, Profoto is God like. I didn't say they were doing things incorrectly.


I don't understand this.... Isn't this why you developed a higher quality strobe?
What market do you see PCB products competing with? Ebay importers?
I can say one thing Paul. You may not be Einstein, but you are a marketing genius IMO



Alphabug
Registered: Mar 25, 2009
Total Posts: 60
Country: N/A

Back to the Einstein's !!!

We need reports on how they work with battery / inverter packs.

While I'd taken it as a given that the Einstein will work with the Vagabond, could we have some feedback as to using the Innovatronix units or home-made "battery and generic-sine-wave-inverter" combos ?

Thanks,

AB.



adamdewilde
Registered: Jul 04, 2005
Total Posts: 3851
Country: Singapore

photomarvin wrote:
Paul, I'm curious have you ever personally used Profoto gear? You seem to make some pretty bold statements about your competition...It's nice you are allowed to be on this forum to not only tell us about AB stuff but to tell us why all the other manufacturers are doing it incorrectly.



Just because he builds lights, doesn't mean he can't share his opinions on another brand, he's probably leagues more qualified then you to comment on light efficiency, and I'd like to hear what he has to say. It's free speech, no actually it's free advice (from an expert in this field) at the end of the day, you don't have to buy his products.

There are tons of guys on this forum that in one way or another are connected with a product or service. They come on here and talk about all sorts of products, and half the time you have no idea that they're affiliated. Paul's being open and honest about his positions. Paul could make a fake account and run around spouting nonsense but he doesn't... He comes on as himself, and answers questions people ask, and clarifies misinformation. When I'm misinformed, I like when people clarify things for me. So you should thank him. And if you disagree with his comments, challenge him in a way that educates the rest of us.

And yes, for the record it is nice that he's here to share his views. I'm glad he's here.



Deezie
Registered: Mar 07, 2005
Total Posts: 1460
Country: United States

Just because he builds lights, doesn't mean he can't share his opinions on another brand, he's probably leagues more qualified then you to comment on light efficiency, and I'd like to hear what he has to say. It's free speech, no actually it's free advice (from an expert in this field) at the end of the day, you don't have to buy his products.


I'll be open and honest and share my opinion, as well. Paul's comments about Profoto do not jive with my real-world experience in using them on a monthly basis for many years in a commercial setting. On many levels his 600ws lights cannot compete with Profoto packs, as he would suggest with the following comment, "No wonder everyone needs 2400WS to do a 600WS job. Efficacy is a large part of my design effort."

Which is not to say Profoto is perfect. Their D1 monolights are too big IMO, and I question some the features or lack thereof on these units. There's obviously pros and cons for all brands, but I hardly think that Paul's brand could stand up to the same scrutiny that he holds other lights to, which makes it all the more interesting that he would criticize others. I look forward to seeing some opinions on his new line of lights. They look pretty cool.



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