bacilonur wrote:
Same bulb for 110-240 is nice. What's the highest power setting that stays constant at 8 and 5fps? I saw the 1/10 spec, just wondering if you had any high FPS tests.

I did some very quick tests with D300. I don't think it will make 10fps - should make 5 OK and maybe 8. The trigger circuit has some recovery time that limits this.

Will do some independent checking with a D3s and 1Dmk3.

Paul Buff wrote:
bacilonur wrote:
Same bulb for 110-240 is nice. What's the highest power setting that stays constant at 8 and 5fps? I saw the 1/10 spec, just wondering if you had any high FPS tests.

I did some very quick tests with D300. I don't think it will make 10fps - should make 5 OK and maybe 8. The trigger circuit has some recovery time that limits this.


Will using the Einstein with a Vagabond (with sufficient charge) limit the stobe at all as far the high fps goes?

I may have dreamed this up, or read someone elses wishful thoughts on the matter.. Or it could have been mentioned here, but after reading the manual I didn't see anything that would indicate my thoughts are right on the Einstein units.

Ok so here goes, I thought I heard/read that the Einstein CCommander was built like a light meter. So essentially what you could do is take a light meter reading from flash A then take a reading from flash B and C, and then tell CC that flash A is the main, flash B is the fill and flash C is the rim, and you would then based on internal calculations of distance of flash from person, and modifier readouts, be able to say I want A to be 2 full stops above B, and I want C to pop 1/2 a stop above A...

Then it automatically sets the lights up, and you start shooting..

Now the reason I thought this was, because someone mentioned CC was a light meter, and someone mentioned that it could calculate ratios coming from the lights, and then I think someone mentioned something about being able to control the flashes independently within there groups.

Having something that auto setups for me, would be better then having to run back and fourth with my sekonic light meter, tethering each light then adjusting 2-3 times, would be a headache with 3-4 lights.. ESP since AB doesn't have a sekonic module deal like the PW company does..

I'm just curious how much of this is true, and or false, as in how much of this I dreamt up.
If there are similar features, please explain in more basic terms

Best,
ADam

Hey Adam,

The CC allows you to do that, but it doesn't completely do it for you. You've got full .1-stop control over each light, and you can adjust each one individually or all together. You go through the channels (which you can assign names to beforehand, which then means that you need to keep each CSRB+ set on the chosen channel and attached to the appropriate strobe, which I accomplish with a color coded gaffer tape system) and meter each one, and then as you click the power levels up and down for that channel or for all the channels, you can see the little slot going down .1f for each click.

It's pretty nice. The only thing I was assuming it had and that I'm still hoping will be implemented eventually is a one-click meter for all the channels one by one (with individual output readings) automatically. Right now you can either meter a single channel or all the channels together, the only way to get each individual channel's f-stop is to fire it individually. Firing it on "All" triggers all the lights and gives you your total f-stop reading.

Still, it's far more powerful than any other strobe remote on the market. I bought 2 CCs (for backup) and 2 CSTs to keep on my cameras for the actual triggering. They seem to be better now but the first batch had some problems with cold solder joints on the battery terminals. A little bit of velcro on the back of the CC works great for attaching it to anything you've got dangling around your neck. I tried rigging up something with the hotshoe but it doesn't have a locking screw so it'd start coming loose when it's bouncing around.

adamdewilde wrote:
I may have dreamed this up, or read someone elses wishful thoughts on the matter.. Or it could have been mentioned here, but after reading the manual I didn't see anything that would indicate my thoughts are right on the Einstein units.

Ok so here goes, I thought I heard/read that the Einstein CCommander was built like a light meter. So essentially what you could do is take a light meter reading from flash A then take a reading from flash B and C, and then tell CC that flash A is the main, flash B is the fill and flash C is the rim, and you would then based on internal calculations of distance of flash from person, and modifier readouts, be able to say I want A to be 2 full stops above B, and I want C to pop 1/2 a stop above A...

Then it automatically sets the lights up, and you start shooting..

Now the reason I thought this was, because someone mentioned CC was a light meter, and someone mentioned that it could calculate ratios coming from the lights, and then I think someone mentioned something about being able to control the flashes independently within there groups.

Having something that auto setups for me, would be better then having to run back and fourth with my sekonic light meter, tethering each light then adjusting 2-3 times, would be a headache with 3-4 lights.. ESP since AB doesn't have a sekonic module deal like the PW company does..

I'm just curious how much of this is true, and or false, as in how much of this I dreamt up.
If there are similar features, please explain in more basic terms

Best,
ADam

Almost, but not quite. CC can meter each light separately, and/or can meter any group of lights (8 different groups - you put whatever lights in the group that you want - and it can also meter the whole set of lights that your camera will see when you fire. All metering is incident mode and is independent of other metering modes.

You can name each light IE Main left, Fill Right, Hair 1, etc.

In normal use, CC displays all 16 possible lights in terms of power settings and by the f stop you metered for each. in 16 channel bargraph form. Say you do a guess setup, then meter say main = f8 6/10, fill f4 2/10,etc. If you really want main = f8 0/10 and fill = f 5.6 0/10. You just select main and you will see a digital readout of the f8 6/10. Just click it down until it reads f 8 0/10 - no need to re meter - just dial it in. Go to the Fill and read the f4 2/10 you first metered . . . click it up to the f5.6 0/10 you wanted. Your done,

Now select ALL and take a reading of all lights. Say you get f 8 3/10, but you really want to shoot at f8 . . . while in ALL, just click the power down until you get f8. What happens is that each individual light drops by 3/10 f . . . keeping exactly the same balance betweens the lights but getting the f8 total you want. In this example, the main you had set to f8 drops to f5.6 7/10 and the fill you had set at f5.6 drops to f4 7/10. Want to do the same shot at f11? Just go back to ALL and raise the f stop to f11 . . . all the lights raise their power by 1f and you're ready to shoot at f11.

If you want to see what a particular group of lights looks like and what the contribute to the f exposure, put those lights in a group and select that group, Everything else goes off and you can see and mater that particular group. If you want that group brighter, just click up the power and only that group changes . . . and updates the metered f stop from each light in that group and of the aggregate in that group.

You only metered once, then set up the exact output and aggregate exposure on the CC. You can then save this as one of 50 presets for later recall, then do a whole different setup and save it.

When you're done for the day, you can go to ALL > Off and the power to each light is turned off (standby) Even if you actually shut of the main circuit breaker, you can come back in a week, turn the breaker back on, recall one of the memories you saved and bingo - they lights are all turned on to the exact settings you saved last week. Recall another memory and everything resets to that setup.

Clear, or confusing? If you call Customer service they can send you a Cyber Commander and preliminary Einstein manuals, which are quite complete.

Thats pretty awesome guys... This is what I've been looking for in an affordable wireless system!
Thanks to Paul and bacilonur for the explanations... But just so I'm not getting my hopes up, I'm going to dumb it down to yes or no, and maybe someone can give me a brief explanation if the answer is maybe or sort of..


So a setting of ALL would raise the groups by ratios so they stay the same Y/N?


You can exit ALL and just go into "groups" which can be 1 light per group if you'd like Y/N?


The CC is used as a light meter in the sense, that you would hold it agains a models face and press a button triggering a flash to occur Y/N?


The CC actually is a light meter, and it will take a reading of a light w/modifier attached to give you f/values Y/N?


The f/values on the back of the flash are set based on the CCs metering, not f/values at a given distance and a given iso like other flashes on the market Y/N?


That would clear up any more questions I have... Sorry for dumbing it down, I get what you're saying I just want to be 100% sure as I have a fantastic idea that I'm working on, and it revolves around the Einstein lights, and I just want to make sure I'm not wasting time on features that don't exist.


Best,
Adam

P.S. No no, Paul that was clear enough... I don't need the manuals, but thank you for the offer.. Aside, I'm in Singapore still so by the time the manuals get to me, you would have uploaded PDFs, I'll hold out if it means saving the environment

Any update on progress on the Einstein? I think your last post about status said you expected to be making a small run this week. In a best-case scenario where everything goes as planned, can you give us a ballpark as to when those of us on the 3000+ (or whatever it's up to) unit waiting list might be able to get them? I'm looking at making a purchase and would prefer for at least one of my lights to be the Einstein vs. a B800 but it depends on how long we're looking at.

bacilonur wrote:
Hey Adam,

The CC allows you to do that, but it doesn't completely do it for you. You've got full .1-stop control over each light, and you can adjust each one individually or all together. You go through the channels (which you can assign names to beforehand, which then means that you need to keep each CSRB+ set on the chosen channel and attached to the appropriate strobe, which I accomplish with a color coded gaffer tape system) and meter each one, and then as you click the power levels up and down for that channel or for all the channels, you can see the little slot going down .1f for each click.

It's pretty nice. The only thing I was assuming it had and that I'm still hoping will be implemented eventually is a one-click meter for all the channels one by one (with individual output readings) automatically. Right now you can either meter a single channel or all the channels together, the only way to get each individual channel's f-stop is to fire it individually. Firing it on "All" triggers all the lights and gives you your total f-stop reading.

Still, it's far more powerful than any other strobe remote on the market. I bought 2 CCs (for backup) and 2 CSTs to keep on my cameras for the actual triggering. They seem to be better now but the first batch had some problems with cold solder joints on the battery terminals. A little bit of velcro on the back of the CC works great for attaching it to anything you've got dangling around your neck. I tried rigging up something with the hotshoe but it doesn't have a locking screw so it'd start coming loose when it's bouncing around.

The "one-click meter for all" sounds nice but also sounds impractical is not impossible with 1 CC. In oder for this to work in theory, you would have to have 1 CC for every PCB(if you want to control power) flash you use, setup for that lights channel. Then have one person holding the CC for every PCB(if you want power control) flash in use ready for all persons to fire each meter at once. And on top of that, the CC's meter dome would need to be replaced by a flat receptor to enable it to receive light from only the one source it is aimed at and that does not guarantee that you will not get stray readings from the other flash units.

All in all your idea sounds good and hope maybe it will come someday.

RMS

adamdewilde wrote:
Thats pretty awesome guys... This is what I've been looking for in an affordable wireless system!
Thanks to Paul and bacilonur for the explanations... But just so I'm not getting my hopes up, I'm going to dumb it down to yes or no, and maybe someone can give me a brief explanation if the answer is maybe or sort of..


So a setting of ALL would raise the groups by ratios so they stay the same Y/N? (YES)


You can exit ALL and just go into "groups" which can be 1 light per group if you'd like Y/N? (YES)


The CC is used as a light meter in the sense, that you would hold it agains a models face and press a button triggering a flash to occur Y/N? (YES)


The CC actually is a light meter, and it will take a reading of a light w/modifier attached to give you f/values Y/N? (YES)


The f/values on the back of the flash are set based on the CCs metering, not f/values at a given distance and a given iso like other flashes on the market Y/N? (Correct)


That would clear up any more questions I have... Sorry for dumbing it down, I get what you're saying I just want to be 100% sure as I have a fantastic idea that I'm working on, and it revolves around the Einstein lights, and I just want to make sure I'm not wasting time on features that don't exist.


Best,
Adam

P.S. No no, Paul that was clear enough... I don't need the manuals, but thank you for the offer.. Aside, I'm in Singapore still so by the time the manuals get to me, you would have uploaded PDFs, I'll hold out if it means saving the environment

You have it correct. The meter is a true incident meter that you use like a normal flashmeter - at the subject with dome pointed toward the came or light (your preference - I aim it at the camera).

It goes from ISO 50 to 3200, and from 1 second to 1/1000 second, and measures flash plus ambient at the selected speed (like all flashmeters). If you change ISO after metering, all meter results are updated automatically. If you change time you must re meter at the new time. (Same as standard flashmeter).

Since it actually functions like a normal meter, if you move lights or change modifiers you must re meter.

There is a Navigation joystick that scrolls through Channels 1-16, then groups 1-8, then ALL. Normally it is set to one of the Channels - the one you want to adjust and examine in detail. All 16 channels are still present in 16 wide bargraph form so you see all 16 channels f-stops, modeling lamp brightness and flashpower. These are presented in EU number form, so even if the lights have different WS ratings, what you see is the actual WS relationship between the various lights.

If you go to ALL, you can bracket the whole mess up or down in 1/10f steps and everything updates - f readings, WS setting, EU Numbers, Flash durations, color temps, etc. You'll see the whole 16 channel wide bargraph go up and down as you bracket. If you meter in ALL you get the aggregate of what the camera will expose, and can bracket to get the exact camera f-stop you want.

You don't need to be in ALL to shoot. (The preferred use is to leave a CST on the camera - it will fire whatever you have set up on the CC.This leaves the CC free to carry around for metering, etc. If you are on any Channel 1-16 the camera fires all channels as they are currently set. If you are set to a group, the camera will fire only those lights in that group - the other lights are disabled and their model lamps are OFF so what you see is what you get.

There are a few cases where you may need to re meter the aggregate ALL or a group. When you have made a change that demands this you are prompted. For instance, if you make an adjustment to one light, that will affect the aggregate ALL exposure and will also affect the group exposure fro any groups that contain that light. This would require re metering ALL and any affected groups.
If you bracket a group, this will also affect the aggregate ALL (camera exposure) requiring a new ALL metering.

Setup is quite easy with Einsteins, but more complex with classic Buff lights . . . you have to define what each classic Buff light is, what modeling lamp it contains, etc. With Einstein all this info is automatically gathered. You just set up your Einstein studio, select "find studio" and there they are.

I believe you can download the manual and get a more detailed overview.

RMS956 wrote:
bacilonur wrote:
Hey Adam,

The CC allows you to do that, but it doesn't completely do it for you. You've got full .1-stop control over each light, and you can adjust each one individually or all together. You go through the channels (which you can assign names to beforehand, which then means that you need to keep each CSRB+ set on the chosen channel and attached to the appropriate strobe, which I accomplish with a color coded gaffer tape system) and meter each one, and then as you click the power levels up and down for that channel or for all the channels, you can see the little slot going down .1f for each click.

It's pretty nice. The only thing I was assuming it had and that I'm still hoping will be implemented eventually is a one-click meter for all the channels one by one (with individual output readings) automatically. Right now you can either meter a single channel or all the channels together, the only way to get each individual channel's f-stop is to fire it individually. Firing it on "All" triggers all the lights and gives you your total f-stop reading.

Still, it's far more powerful than any other strobe remote on the market. I bought 2 CCs (for backup) and 2 CSTs to keep on my cameras for the actual triggering. They seem to be better now but the first batch had some problems with cold solder joints on the battery terminals. A little bit of velcro on the back of the CC works great for attaching it to anything you've got dangling around your neck. I tried rigging up something with the hotshoe but it doesn't have a locking screw so it'd start coming loose when it's bouncing around.

The "one-click meter for all" sounds nice but also sounds impractical is not impossible with 1 CC. In oder for this to work in theory, you would have to have 1 CC for every PCB(if you want to control power) flash you use, setup for that lights channel. Then have one person holding the CC for every PCB(if you want power control) flash in use ready for all persons to fire each meter at once. And on top of that, the CC's meter dome would need to be replaced by a flat receptor to enable it to receive light from only the one source it is aimed at and that does not guarantee that you will not get stray readings from the other flash units.

All in all your idea sounds good and hope maybe it will come someday.

RMS

Just plain wrong. One CC allows you to meter and adjust the whole 16 light studio any way you want. If you select Channel 3 and meter, only light #3 fires - the others don't.

"Just plain wrong. One CC allows you to meter and adjust the whole 16 light studio any way you want. If you select Channel 3 and meter, only light #3 fires - the others don't."

With due respect, you are correct Paul but I think we got off track here. I was reffering to bacilonur's post as to what was stated that wishing all lights be metered with "one-click" from the CC and show all thier f/ numbers automatically without having ever put in any readings or info before hand. Sorry if I did not make myself clear on this or if I misinterpreted bacilonur's post. Best regards, RMS

Perfect, this is what I was hoping to hear.
Paul thanks again for clearing things up for me.

Best,
Adam

RMS956 wrote:

"Just plain wrong. One CC allows you to meter and adjust the whole 16 light studio any way you want. If you select Channel 3 and meter, only light #3 fires - the others don't."

With due respect, you are correct Paul but I think we got off track here. I was reffering to bacilonur's post as to what was stated that wishing all lights be metered with "one-click" from the CC and show all thier f/ numbers automatically without having ever put in any readings or info before hand. Sorry if I did not make myself clear on this or if I misinterpreted bacilonur's post. Best regards, RMS



I understand . . . but what do you want for $179? This sort of stuff could evolve, but jeez - compare CC/Einstein to anything else at any price. Plus, you may not want the meter in the same position for each light. You can't measure a background paper light from the same position as the main light. Too much automation leads to frustration and unexpected problems. Some people like to point the meter at the camera and some point it toward the light source.

The wait is really killing me. Any progress update? It's already mid-march and I'm ready to purchase. I really don't wanna settle for an AB or WL with these units on the horizon, but then again, I need lights for some shoots coming up in May and I don't know if I can afford to wait any longer.

Maybe a good compromise would be an "Einstein Trade-In" program where we could get 80%-90% credit back if we trade in anything bought within the past 3 months or so. I know you have a current trade in program, but it really doesn't justify the hassle.

C'mon Paul, help us out!!

GeekChicPhoto,

The trade in program you're referring to is worse then what Paul is currently willing to do. Why complicate things?
Just rent lights if you really need them. That or buy and return a single AB..

Besides please don't ask about release dates, as this forum will just get ugly, it's better to stick with feature questions and answers.. They'll come out when they come out.

GeekChicPhoto wrote:
The wait is really killing me. Any progress update? It's already mid-march and I'm ready to purchase. I really don't wanna settle for an AB or WL with these units on the horizon, but then again, I need lights for some shoots coming up in May and I don't know if I can afford to wait any longer.

Maybe a good compromise would be an "Einstein Trade-In" program where we could get 80%-90% credit back if we trade in anything bought within the past 3 months or so. I know you have a current trade in program, but it really doesn't justify the hassle.

C'mon Paul, help us out!!

What did you do before and now? How is life any different?

adamdewilde wrote:
GeekChicPhoto,

The trade in program you're referring to is worse then what Paul is currently willing to do. Why complicate things?
Just rent lights if you really need them. That or buy and return a single AB..

Besides please don't ask about release dates, as this forum will just get ugly, it's better to stick with feature questions and answers.. They'll come out when they come out.



Is the company really willing to refund current purchases when the Einstein comes out? If so then I'm all over it. I apologize for asking about release dates and I know it's like beating a dead horse, but I'm just very anxious.

cordellwillis wrote:

What did you do before and now? How is life any different?

I'm currently using speedlights (YongNuo's and an old and battered SB28). I need something with more power and PCB products fit the wallet.

GeekChicPhoto wrote:
adamdewilde wrote:
GeekChicPhoto,

The trade in program you're referring to is worse then what Paul is currently willing to do. Why complicate things?
Just rent lights if you really need them. That or buy and return a single AB..

Besides please don't ask about release dates, as this forum will just get ugly, it's better to stick with feature questions and answers.. They'll come out when they come out.



Is the company really willing to refund current purchases when the Einstein comes out? If so then I'm all over it. I apologize for asking about release dates and I know it's like beating a dead horse, but I'm just very anxious.

cordellwillis wrote:

What did you do before and now? How is life any different?

I'm currently using speedlights (YongNuo's and an old and battered SB28). I need something with more power and PCB products fit the wallet.

We have made this very clear since our first pre-order of AB Max, then Einstein. If you pre-ordered an Einstein or AB Max we offered to extend the 60 day satisfaction guarantee on AB until such time as the Einstein ships to you. We never go back on an offer, so it still stands. So if you bought an AB and pre ordered an Einstein or AB Max during the pre order period you may return the AB for full refund if we get it back within two weeks of your receiving the Einsten (you pay shipping back to us.) This only applies to AB. This also means we will have to create a refurbished AB program to deal with the returns.

Sorry, we can only do this with ABs . . . not WL or Zeus. So if you order an AB(s) now and place also place an Einstein(s) pre order you may return the AB(s) for full credit when you get the Einstein(s).

Paul Buff wrote:
bacilonur wrote:
Same bulb for 110-240 is nice. What's the highest power setting that stays constant at 8 and 5fps? I saw the 1/10 spec, just wondering if you had any high FPS tests.

I haven't done complete testing of this yet. Einstein will reach 100% recycle at approximately these rates:
640WS = 1.7 seconds
320WS = .85 seconds
160WS = .43 seconds
80WS = .24 seconds
40WS = .13 seconds

However, Einstein will fire before 100% charge is reached. Even if you speed fire before 100% ready, the nature of the IGBT circuitry is completely different than conventional studio flash in that the capacitors don't completely discharge with each shot so at the lower power settings, only a small portion of the capacitor charge is dissipated with each shot. Thus a fast sequence of shots - faster than the 100% recycle time, will cause much less variation in exposure and color from shot to shot as you would see in a conventional system.

For example, a shot at 1/16 power leaves about 15/16 capacitor charge, thus an immediate second shot will have most of the charge remaining and will not affect the output significantly. A long sequence of shots way before 100% recycle will result in a successive lowering of exposure as the capacitors are discharged at a faster rate than the charging circuit can keep up with. This action is similar to a speedlight set at low power.

At a guess, I would say you could expect good 5fps performance at about 1/10 power (64WS) and 8fps at about 40WS. But don't quote me yet . . . I'll try to do some tests and give you more exact info.



OK . . . I just tested Einstein at 8fps on D300, triggering with Cyber Commander and shooting full rez RAW. At 80WS (1/8 power) a burst of six shots worked fine, but progressively dropped the exposure as expected because the Einstein was firing before 100% recycle and progressively discharging the capacitors faster than they were replenished. The 6th shot was exposed 1/3f lower than the first and the color did not shift whatsoever through the series. Fully usable shots.

I then repeated the test at 8fps and 40WS (1/16 power) and fired a 12 shot burst. I got 12 recycle beeps and each shot is identical in exposure (within 1/20f) and color was exactly the same for each shot. A lot of fun - So, yes, Einstein is a speed demon in this use, and dead accurate.