An American Soldier in Canada
/forum/topic/835179/4

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bigbee
Registered: Dec 30, 2005
Total Posts: 531
Country: United States

jwilson66 wrote:

Yes...we should ALL get our news from MSNBC...they are much more "fair and balanced!!!" Seriously, just because someone disagrees with the current Administration doesn't make him/her a right-wing loon that is unable to think on his own and therefore has to be spoonfed by FoxNews...the funny thing about FoxNews and all those people who criticize it is that when I ask them if they ever watch it, invariably, their answer is "No...I won't watch such a right-wing media outlet that pretends to be news." Well, if they've never watched it, how can they fairly say that it's right-wing? Now, there's no arguing that Hannity and Beck are conservative...ok, there are liberal commentators on the other networks...why is it wrong for FoxNews' opinion folks to be conservative but it's perfectly okay for MSNBC's and CNN's opinion folks to be liberal? See the hypocrisy?


Comparing Fox News to MSNBC is ridiculous. Everyone knows that the Fox opinion programming is conservative, and it includes their 3-hour morning show in addition to Cavuto, Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly, and Van Susterenenen. Everyone also knows that MSNBC's evening line-up of Schultz, Olbermann, and Maddow leans left, but their 3-hour morning show is headlined by a former Republican Congressman. No one can tell what Chris Matthews is.

The key question is what do their news divisions do, and in this area the evidence is indisputable that Fox provides a hard-right, GOP perspective (promoting Tea Parties during new segments, for example), and MSNBC acts a typical mainstream media organization. Fox is owned by Rupert Murdoch, and run by Roger Ailes (a former GOP operative), so no one should be surprised.

I don't need to watch Fox, because Media Matters provides transcripts and video clips in full context that reveal just what Fox is and what they do. Here's a good summary:

http://mediamatters.org/columns/200910300041

For the definitive assessment of Fox, see Jon Stewart's takedown here:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-october-29-2009/for-fox-sake-

Fox is a symbol of a distorted, hypocritical view of the world that skews not toward true conservatism but toward cheerleading for the Republican party and against anything that Democrats have ever done or will ever do. I think that others understood my point.



G. Ogilvie
Registered: Aug 10, 2003
Total Posts: 38
Country: United States

bigbee wrote:
jwilson66 wrote:


Fox is a symbol of a distorted, hypocritical view of the world that skews not toward true conservatism but toward cheerleading for the Republican party and against anything that Democrats have ever done or will ever do. I think that others understood my point.



I think a good ten gallon hat will cover your point...and just to get you back on track, this was about an American Soldier in Canada eh, and not about ranting like you were on the dailykos.

Oh, btw, John Stewart isn't real news anchor,he only plays one on TV.



jeremy_clay
Registered: Jan 14, 2008
Total Posts: 10545
Country: Canada

G. Ogilvie wrote:





I think a good ten gallon hat will cover your point...and just to get you back on track, this was about an American Soldier in Canada eh, and not about ranting like you were on the dailykos.

Oh, btw, John Stewart isn't real news anchor,he only plays one on TV.


Yet you'll find %10000 more accurate reporting there compared to Fox. Weird, huh?



jwilson66
Registered: Aug 24, 2005
Total Posts: 37
Country: United States

MSNBC "leans" left? Yeah, they've pretty much fallen all the way over left! No one know what Chris Matthews is? Hmmm...former speech writer for Dukakis (Dem nominee for Pres in '88). FoxNews had Alan Colmes on for years...not exactly a conservative. At least Hannity and O'Reilly will have liberals on as guests and engage them in debate. Schulz, Olbermann, and Maddow only have guests that simply reinforce their own left opinions...there's no debate...there's no diversity of opinion on those shows.

You feel that FoxNews cheerleads for the Repub party, okay, that's a fair debate; however, again, as much as you claim FoxNews cheers for conservatism, MSNBC cheers for liberalism! It's hypocritical not to admit that...what's the difference between FoxNews cheerleading for conservatism and EVERYBODY ELSE cheerleading for liberalism?

As a conservative, yes, I prefer FoxNews to MSNBC because MSNBC (and I watch it at least 3 days per week just to hear the opposing opinions) constantly tells me how evil conservatives are, how bad the US is, how this war (that I'm currently involved in right now as I'm writing from Iraq) is ill-advised, illegal, blah, blah, blah!!! So, I prefer to get my news from an outlet that I know supports me, doesn't denegrate me, is proud of me and my service, is proud of America.

Yes, MSNBC is a typical mainstream media outlet - typical in that it is left-leaning. And, uh, Media-Matters? Really...from their website, their mission is to discredit conservative voices and advance liberalism...hardly an objective source!

Anyways...I know I'm not going to change your mind and you sure as hell aren't going to change mine...so, we'll just have to agree to disagree...I'm done.



bigbee
Registered: Dec 30, 2005
Total Posts: 531
Country: United States

G. Ogilvie wrote:

I think a good ten gallon hat will cover your point...and just to get you back on track, this was about an American Soldier in Canada eh, and not about ranting like you were on the dailykos.

Oh, btw, John Stewart isn't real news anchor,he only plays one on TV.


Another substance-free attack from another self-appointed forum cop. You probably don't know this, but Markos Moulitsas, founder of DailyKos, is a veteran.

I notice that you attacked the messenger, Jon Stewart, but not the substance and direct evidence of his critique. Perhaps there is no defense.



bigbee
Registered: Dec 30, 2005
Total Posts: 531
Country: United States

jwilson66 wrote:
MSNBC "leans" left? Yeah, they've pretty much fallen all the way over left! No one know what Chris Matthews is? Hmmm...former speech writer for Dukakis (Dem nominee for Pres in '88). FoxNews had Alan Colmes on for years...not exactly a conservative. At least Hannity and O'Reilly will have liberals on as guests and engage them in debate. Schulz, Olbermann, and Maddow only have guests that simply reinforce their own left opinions...there's no debate...there's no diversity of opinion on those shows.

You feel that FoxNews cheerleads for the Repub party, okay, that's a fair debate; however, again, as much as you claim FoxNews cheers for conservatism, MSNBC cheers for liberalism! It's hypocritical not to admit that...what's the difference between FoxNews cheerleading for conservatism and EVERYBODY ELSE cheerleading for liberalism?

As a conservative, yes, I prefer FoxNews to MSNBC because MSNBC (and I watch it at least 3 days per week just to hear the opposing opinions) constantly tells me how evil conservatives are, how bad the US is, how this war (that I'm currently involved in right now as I'm writing from Iraq) is ill-advised, illegal, blah, blah, blah!!! So, I prefer to get my news from an outlet that I know supports me, doesn't denegrate me, is proud of me and my service, is proud of America.

Yes, MSNBC is a typical mainstream media outlet - typical in that it is left-leaning. And, uh, Media-Matters? Really...from their website, their mission is to discredit conservative voices and advance liberalism...hardly an objective source!

Anyways...I know I'm not going to change your mind and you sure as hell aren't going to change mine...so, we'll just have to agree to disagree...I'm done.


Your entire argument is a strawman, since it doesn't address what happens on the news sides of Fox and MSNBC. Media Matters presents transcripts and audio and video clips of things conservatives actually said and did. I guess you are arguing that the facts have a liberal bias. Also, your assertion that the major media outlets - all owned by huge corporations - are left-leaning is both laughable and naive.

I appreciate your service, but your third paragraph is a bunch of offensive, red-baiting BS. I notice that you did not provide a single example of MSNBC indicating that it does not support the troops or is not proud of the people of this country or its Constitution. They have asserted that the war was both ill-advised and illegal because it was ill-advised and illegal. The rule of law should never be trumped by politics.

I wish nothing but the best for you and your family and look forward to the day when we are not in a constant state of war, placing our finest young men and women in harm's way.



Geo31
Registered: Jul 29, 2006
Total Posts: 570
Country: United States

bigbee wrote:
Geo31 wrote:
Well, so much for keeping politics out of this. Almost all of the first two and a half pages were about the image (discussion of the uniform and lack of respect was still about the image. The last few posts have been pure politics. Take it elsewhere.


Translation: When someone else makes an obnoxious political remark, just sit back and don't respond. I don't think so.

Second, virtually none of the comments have anything to do with the image. They are comments about the attire of one of the persons in a candid image, and one even contained a gay slur. If you're going to try to play forum cop, at least try to be consistent.


Oh please.... Learn to be a big boy.

The comments about the attire were completely about the image. Comments are made about the attire in lots of images posted here.

I agree, the gay slur doesn't belong either. In any case, the "well he started it" defense is childish.



bigbee
Registered: Dec 30, 2005
Total Posts: 531
Country: United States

Geo31 wrote:

Oh please.... Learn to be a big boy.

The comments about the attire were completely about the image. Comments are made about the attire in lots of images posted here.

I agree, the gay slur doesn't belong either. In any case, the "well he started it" defense is childish.


You do realize that your two meta-posts are blatant examples of your own blazing hypocrisy, don't you? You are in a hole; stop digging.

Posts concerning the attire of a subject in a candid (i.e. not staged or posed by the photographer) picture are no more valuable than any other off-topic comments. This too is a double standard. If you don't like threads like this, don't read them.

Why don't you show us what a big boy you are and not respond to this post. Don't give it a bump. Lead by example. Man up.



Pfiltz
Registered: Feb 15, 2002
Total Posts: 5420
Country: United States

Bag of kettle popcorn please.. and a Dew.



Joe Zimmerman
Registered: Mar 14, 2007
Total Posts: 399
Country: N/A

Pfiltz wrote:
Bag of kettle popcorn please.. and a Dew.


I prefer the original Loaded with that Movie Theater "Butter".



G. Ogilvie
Registered: Aug 10, 2003
Total Posts: 38
Country: United States


Another substance-free attack from another self-appointed forum cop. You probably don't know this, but Markos Moulitsas, founder of DailyKos, is a veteran.

I notice that you attacked the messenger, Jon Stewart, but not the substance and direct evidence of his critique. Perhaps there is no defense.


If I am the "self-appointed forum cop", would that make you the self-appointed hysterical forum ranter? Seriously though, be a good little cupcake, pick up your camera, leave your mom's basement and go get some fresh air and shoot some pictures...again, FM is about photography, and not hysterical hissy fits.

Sidebar-Lee Harvey Oswald was a Marine, and old Bennie Arnold was an an excellent Army commander/tactician before they both went to the dark side, and what was your point again with Marky? When I go to FM, I want to read about photography and look at the pretty pictures, and if I want to read about nutty buddy stuff, I'll google Moulitas (was that the chubby kid that had a show on MTV?)

TTFN, back to check out the boards...



Rick Joyce
Registered: Sep 05, 2003
Total Posts: 6328
Country: Canada

Gary Lee 44 wrote:
I must agree with those who take issue with the improper wearing of this US Army uniform. I wore it proudly from 1970-1976. I also had the Old Ironsides patch for the first year until a change of MOS. So it does trouble me. Someone said" WWII Vets wear patrs of a uniform". Well that is usually all that will fit when one gets older.
I was 18 when I first wore that uniform, and now I am 59 and I assure you I can no longer wear it in a respectful manner. So I choose not to wear it at all. I wish everyone cared about the US flag and uniform. But I must agree with (Steady). I don't think this is a soldier. As far as the photo goes, Well done Rick!



This man served in Kosovo as a peacekeeper and in the infantry in Iraq. The yellow ribbon on his tunic was worn by his mother while he was in Iraq and now belongs to him.



john lewis
Registered: Feb 26, 2007
Total Posts: 163
Country: United States

My father was a vet and I am also a vet of the USAF.

I see the photo and do not judge the person wearing the uniform. I do not know him, or the reasons for wearing the uniform in such a way. Who knows the path of his service. Perhaps he has PTSD, and this is his best. I do not really know, or care for that matter.

If he served, I am proud of him. Thank you for taking a stand.

I do not care about the regulations he may be breaking. If he served, he can honor this country any way he wishes.

Regards



threeputt
Registered: Oct 25, 2009
Total Posts: 33
Country: Canada

Can this be locked up before someone falls off their soapbox and gets hurt



mhayes5254
Registered: Dec 06, 2004
Total Posts: 1724
Country: United States

John Lewis

You sound like a sensible and honorable man



reason
Registered: May 25, 2009
Total Posts: 579
Country: United States

john lewis wrote:
My father was a vet and I am also a vet of the USAF.

I see the photo and do not judge the person wearing the uniform. I do not know him, or the reasons for wearing the uniform in such a way. Who knows the path of his service. Perhaps he has PTSD, and this is his best. I do not really know, or care for that matter.

If he served, I am proud of him. Thank you for taking a stand.

I do not care about the regulations he may be breaking. If he served, he can honor this country any way he wishes.

Regards

+1. Well said


None of you have the right to judge him. Very disrespectful and low. Shame shame shame on you all. Especially those who did serve. If you truly know what it's like to be shot at every day... then come back and throw insults at your fellow soldiers who don't wear a uniform as well as you do?! Shame on you!!



bigbee
Registered: Dec 30, 2005
Total Posts: 531
Country: United States

G. Ogilvie wrote:
If I am the "self-appointed forum cop", would that make you the self-appointed hysterical forum ranter? Seriously though, be a good little cupcake, pick up your camera, leave your mom's basement and go get some fresh air and shoot some pictures...again, FM is about photography, and not hysterical hissy fits.

TTFN, back to check out the boards...


So, to demonstrate that a) people should only post about photography, and b) you are not playing forum cop and telling people what they should and should not post, you have three posts in this thread, none of which pertain to photography, and in two you tell posters why they need to go away. You accuse a poster of being "hysterical" twice, yet your post includes name-calling and insults.

You've done a better job of indicting your entire premise and your own personality better than I ever could. Thanks!



winman3
Registered: Jul 20, 2005
Total Posts: 397
Country: Canada

I served in the Canadian Forces and do find that get-up an insult to anyone in uniform. Even if you may not have the complete uniform, do not disgrace your (ex?)brothers-in-arms with that appearance that seems to state: "look at me, ain't I kool?" What's on his feet, Birkenstocks or Tevas? Barefooted?
Does he wear the get-up to other events?

I always wonder when I see such people whether the jacket, insignia, patches, etc. match or if they were just collected here and there.

Well, back to photography.....



inf sqd ldr
Registered: Aug 17, 2006
Total Posts: 12
Country: United States

I agree 100% with Evan.

Evan Baines wrote:
The person in this photo is unkempt, unshaven, wearing his dress green jacket over what appears to be a white low-necked t-shirt and a flower (?) on his beret. It is clear that no effort was made to respect the uniform by the person in that photo: quite the opposite. He appears to be flaunting his bastardization of the uniform, perhaps even for political effect (strictly prohibited in the regulation). I'm not judging him as a person, but his behavior as depicted in this image is very distasteful.

For those of us who have served, who have worn that uniform to the funerals of friends who also wore it.... many of us have strong feelings on this matter.

Regarding the image, I'm not seeing any other strong narrative or emotional content beyond the particulars of this person's choice of "wardrobe." There few technical factors to discuss: this shot really seems to be just about his wearing of that particular garment... Thus it seems to be the only thing to discuss here.


I have served in the Army for 15 years and am currently in Iraq...again. Those of us who have served find this kind of thing to be disrespectful. This is the sort of thing that is beaten into our heads from the first day of Basic Training. The few that don't find this disrespectful fall into the same category as this individual. I'm sure he wouldn't have dressed in such a way if he thought there was a chance of running into his First Sergeant or Sergeant Major


Rick Joyce wrote:
This man served in Kosovo as a peacekeeper and in the infantry in Iraq. The yellow ribbon on his tunic was worn by his mother while he was in Iraq and now belongs to him.


If he served as an Infantryman why isn't he wearing the crossed rifles and blue cord of an Infantryman. I sense some exaggeration here.



runner301
Registered: Jul 02, 2005
Total Posts: 628
Country: Japan

I served and I don't find it disrespectful at all. It is that freedom for civilians to do whatever they please for which I fought.

As for the photo...I might be mistaken, but isn't he wearing a Korean Service Medal? That was last issued in 1954...and he looks a little young to have served with my granduncles.



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