An American Soldier in Canada
/forum/topic/835179/1

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Evan Baines
Registered: Jan 15, 2007
Total Posts: 5435
Country: United States

Steady Hand wrote:
The red flower is a "Badge" or crimson or...a symbol or the Remembrance Day...a "Red Poppy" as in the "poppies of the fields of Flanders" etc..



Didn't realize that, but its still not a part of the uniform and should not be worn.... but that's the least of the issues here.



Rick Joyce
Registered: Sep 05, 2003
Total Posts: 6161
Country: Canada

Steady Hand wrote:
The red flower is a "Badge" or crimson or...a symbol of the Remembrance Day...a "Red Poppy" as in the "poppies of the fields of Flanders" etc..




That is quite correct.



Lance Lee
Registered: Sep 27, 2005
Total Posts: 1708
Country: Canada

You know what it is? It is the wife beater underneath, the chest hair showing that is a problem for me. It is just too casual, a bit flippant. Sure, you see a lot of older vets wearing parts of uniforms, and maybe someday I'll do it, too, but they normally are put together a bit more, there is some thought to it.

If he had on a white dress shirt I think it would look a lot better. I would never wear my old Service Dress Blue jacket like that.

Lance Lee
USNA '92





Rick Joyce
Registered: Sep 05, 2003
Total Posts: 6161
Country: Canada

Evan Baines wrote:
Steady Hand wrote:
The red flower is a "Badge" or crimson or...a symbol or the Remembrance Day...a "Red Poppy" as in the "poppies of the fields of Flanders" etc..



Didn't realize that, but its still not a part of the uniform and should not be worn.


Soldier is in Canada for this photo and he wears the poppy in respect for Canada's war dead.



Evan Baines
Registered: Jan 15, 2007
Total Posts: 5435
Country: United States

I'll add that I've had the pleasure of working with some of your Canadian Special Forces, and proudly maintain my maple leaf jump wings as part of my awards and decorations (one is permitted to wear foreign jump wings as part of the uniform if one meets certain criteria). I have much love and respect for my northern brothers.



Lance Lee
Registered: Sep 27, 2005
Total Posts: 1708
Country: Canada

Paul Kierstead wrote:
He does not deserve to be judge solely on how he is wearing a piece of clothing, symbolic or not.


But that is EXACTLY how he should be judged. By wearing uniform items in a disrespectful way it may seem OK to civilians, but it shows a disregard for what he has been a part of.



kasakato
Registered: Sep 14, 2008
Total Posts: 247
Country: Canada

Evan Baines wrote:
Steady Hand wrote:
The red flower is a "Badge" or crimson or...a symbol or the Remembrance Day...a "Red Poppy" as in the "poppies of the fields of Flanders" etc..



Didn't realize that, but its still not a part of the uniform and should not be worn.... but that's the least of the issues here.

He is in Canada on Remembrance Day, why not wear it? Though it is being worn improperly.



Steady Hand
Registered: Dec 03, 2007
Total Posts: 15592
Country: United States

From WikiPedia, for those who won't jump the link:

The poppy's significance to Remembrance Day is a result of Canadian military physician John McCrae's poem In Flanders Fields. The poppy emblem was chosen because of the poppies that bloomed across some of the worst battlefields of Flanders in World War I, their red colour an appropriate symbol for the bloodshed of trench warfare.

An American YMCA Overseas War Secretaries employee, Moina Michael, was inspired to make 25 silk poppies based on McCrae's poem, which she distributed to attendees of the YMCA Overseas War Secretaries' Conference.[29] She then made an effort to have the poppy adopted as a national symbol of remembrance, and succeeded in having the National American Legion Conference adopt it two years later.



Evan Baines
Registered: Jan 15, 2007
Total Posts: 5435
Country: United States

kasakato wrote:
Evan Baines wrote:
Steady Hand wrote:
The red flower is a "Badge" or crimson or...a symbol or the Remembrance Day...a "Red Poppy" as in the "poppies of the fields of Flanders" etc..



Didn't realize that, but its still not a part of the uniform and should not be worn.... but that's the least of the issues here.

He is in Canada on Remembrance Day, why not wear it? Though it is being worn improperly.


Because alterations to the uniform standards, even in response to local custom, require an exception-to-policy letter that I'm SURE this person never obtained.

There are many ways to show respect to the fallen. Given this person's disdain for his uniform, I am forced to question whether his wear of this poppy is out of a sincere desire to respect Canada's war dead. He's certainly disrespecting the countless American soldiers who left it all on the battlefield. Again, the wear of the poppy is actually the least of my issues with this "wardrobe."

I'm not going to argue this anymore on the thread out of respect for the OP and the prohibition of political speech on this forum. I'd welcome any further discussion on PM if you'd like to continue the conversation.



Steady Hand
Registered: Dec 03, 2007
Total Posts: 15592
Country: United States

Obviously, wearing a uniform or even displaying a badge (as on an bumper sticker, car window, or belt buckle, or lighter, etc.) is indicating the person is proud of their service in uniform.

I think this young man is wearing it because he is not ashamed of his service, he is proud of it. I think that is admirable and I respect it.

I also see his girlfriend there. I imagine she was proud to see her man in uniform that day, along with the others.

I see no disrespect from the man in the photo.

If I met him, I would thank him for serving his country too.

(This post edited to remove a word that offended someone. I substituted other examples to be more clear that ANY symbol or use of uniform parts or designs can indicate pride.)



Lance Lee
Registered: Sep 27, 2005
Total Posts: 1708
Country: Canada

It is interesting to see the difference in perspective between those who are/were military and those that were not. I can see that for those that never wore a military uniform it is difficult to see where we are coming from.



sav1977
Registered: Jan 27, 2009
Total Posts: 439
Country: United States

Nice image. The exposed wife beater though...



Rick Joyce
Registered: Sep 05, 2003
Total Posts: 6161
Country: Canada

After all is said and done here, let me say that I posted this photo as something I found interesting and not to be a commentary on the correct wearing of an army uniform. Of course the uniform is not being worn correctly, but this is a "people" forum where we post images of people regardless of their dress.



Steady Hand
Registered: Dec 03, 2007
Total Posts: 15592
Country: United States

Speaking of men in uniform, I came across a video clip yesterday on CNN.

Having read a book a few years ago when I was interviewing vets from many conflicts and periods, I found that what one sees as appearances or reads or hears, may not be in fact completely true.

The book I recommend is titled "Stolen Valor." It is full of interesting cases like the one below. You can read more about it here:

http://www.stolenvalor.com/

After reading it, I gave my copy to my brother (a decorated Vietnam helicopter pilot and my personal and genuine hero, DFC, BSV, PH etc.) and we discussed it. He kept the book to show his friends.

I was particularly interested in this case (the one in the video link below). The book details (after exhaustive many years of research in records) the many cases of people (some not even really veterans) "adopting" the uniform and medals and such to create an image, partly or entirely false. In some cases they wear decorations they did not really earn. In some cases the people are even famous, such as movie actors who have claimed to have had combat experience and such.

You might find the linked video amusing, disgusting, or sad. If one did not know that this is not a rare instance, one might find it unbelievable.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2009/11/12/kaye.stolen.valor.cnn

Unfortunately, his case is not the only one.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/12/fake.veteran/index.html

To see a long list of RECENT similar cases of fraud that have been prosecuted by the US Attorney's office visit this link:

http://www.justice.gov/usao/waw/press/2007/sep/operationstolenvalor.html
______________________________

As so many men and women serve in the military (of many countries) I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt....unless there is something that DOES cause doubt...and I have run across that several times when speaking to some "vets."

So, my opinion is that those who truly served their country in uniform are entitled to be given some "slack" or "understanding" regardless of whether they are young or old.

Those that do deserve shame are those that pose as veterans or use fraudulent claims (or wearing of medals mentioned in links above) to garner admiration or "stolen valor." For those people, I have no tolerance, but only contempt.

________________________

On a more positive note...

Those "old" men were once young too.

And it is not unlikely that the young will grow more conservative as they grow older too.

Or they may grow more tolerant.

As I get older, I tend to get more tolerant.



Steady Hand
Registered: Dec 03, 2007
Total Posts: 15592
Country: United States


To see some very moving pictures of Remembrance Day ceremonies or observances, follow this link. It may bring a tear to your eye. It did mine.

You will also see the Red Poppy worn by all kinds of people, including the Queen of England, the Princes of England (on uniform notice) the Duke of Edinburgh, soldiers of several nations, etc.

The images are powerful as are the emotions behind the memories of those who have served their countries.

Don't skip this. Follow the link and see how powerful photos can be.

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/11/armistice_day_remembrances.html



Skyhawk42
Registered: Mar 08, 2008
Total Posts: 213
Country: United States

I very much doubt he served. If he had served proudly he wouldn't wear the uniform like this. He's a fraud and another example of this Obamanation we are crumbling to. very sad.

12 year veteran of the USN

John Binford



Harry T
Registered: Jan 29, 2007
Total Posts: 1004
Country: United States

Who gives a hoot?! There are many a 'fools' like this it's just this guy got his mug posted on a very heated FM.com forum and now it's a hot topic!

What's worse this "attempt" at wearing the uniform or burning of the US Flag on US soil, which is perfectly ok given the Bill of Rights...right? Again, the US Flag may only be a cloth to some of you but to a lot of those who serve or have served it means so much more.

One thing I do notice after spending 13 years overseas is that Veteran's Day takes on so much more on the distant lands that US Soldiers, Sailors and Marines fought on. Here it's remembered but over there the people of those countries set 'free' by our country and it's allies really hits home. I've seen this in Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Holland and Korea on either Memorial or Veteran's days and always hits deep in the heart.

Ok now i'm just rambling on.

Harry T.
Active - USAF



Go4Long
Registered: Sep 04, 2005
Total Posts: 1474
Country: Canada

Honestly, if this man is an active member of the Armed Forces, I'm not familiar 100% familiar with the US Code of conduct as it pertains to the uniform, but I believe he could be charged as it is not a proper sign of respect for the uniform.

It may have not been a deliberate move on this persons part, but it is what it is. And I've got to say that I side with the earlier posters mention of the fact that I very much doubt this person has ever served in the military, as most people that have take their dress uniform very seriously.



proimage1
Registered: Sep 06, 2002
Total Posts: 3031
Country: United States

Steady Hand wrote:
Speaking of men in uniform, I came across a video clip yesterday on CNN.

Having read a book a few years ago when I was interviewing vets from many conflicts and periods, I found that what one sees as appearances or reads or hears, may not be in fact completely true.

The book I recommend is titled "Stolen Valor." It is full of interesting cases like the one below. You can read more about it here:

http://www.stolenvalor.com/

After reading it, I gave my copy to my brother (a decorated Vietnam helicopter pilot and my personal and genuine hero, DFC, BSV, PH etc.) and we discussed it. He kept the book to show his friends.

I was particularly interested in this case (the one in the video link below). The book details (after exhaustive many years of research in records) the many cases of people (some not even really veterans) "adopting" the uniform and medals and such to create an image, partly or entirely false. In some cases they wear decorations they did not really earn. In some cases the people are even famous, such as movie actors who have claimed to have had combat experience and such.

You might find the linked video amusing, disgusting, or sad. If one did not know that this is not a rare instance, one might find it unbelievable.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2009/11/12/kaye.stolen.valor.cnn

Unfortunately, his case is not the only one.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/12/fake.veteran/index.html

To see a long list of RECENT similar cases of fraud that have been prosecuted by the US Attorney's office visit this link:

http://www.justice.gov/usao/waw/press/2007/sep/operationstolenvalor.html
______________________________

As so many men and women serve in the military (of many countries) I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt....unless there is something that DOES cause doubt...and I have run across that several times when speaking to some "vets."

So, my opinion is that those who truly served their country in uniform are entitled to be given some "slack" or "understanding" regardless of whether they are young or old.

Those that do deserve shame are those that pose as veterans or use fraudulent claims (or wearing of medals mentioned in links above) to garner admiration or "stolen valor." For those people, I have no tolerance, but only contempt.

________________________

On a more positive note...

Those "old" men were once young too.

And it is not unlikely that the young will grow more conservative as they grow older too.

Or they may grow more tolerant.

As I get older, I tend to get more tolerant.


This has all been very interesting - I just visited the sites you linked here and enjoyed the links as well, as well, very interesting.

By the way, my brother that was 60 last month and also my biggest hero from way, way, back spent 2 or 3 tours in Vietnam 67-69 - was in the 82nd Airborne and saw way more than he wanted to. He has never flaunted any of this to anyone and I mean never. I've had to pull the very few conversations out of him over the past 40 years..

He was the reason I went in the service 3 weeks after I graduated from HS - I spent 4 yrs in the USAF from 72-76. Fast forward to today. My 25 year old son is active duty US Navy serving on a destroyer and HAS BEEN deployed to the Middle East twice for 8 months each deployment and is heading back after the first of the year.

As far as the image of the guy in the uniform - personally I never gave the shot a second thought, but have enjoyed reading the post here and all the emotions and points of view.

As far as the uniform - you bet I'm proud to have worn it - even though Vietnam was a very unpopular war !

My son and his uniform - I COULD NOT be more proud and it literally makes the hair on my neck stand up when I see him in his Navy Whites with his awards and ribbons - to which he has earned each and every one !

I've been a member here on FM since way, way back ( 2002 ), but very rarely ever post here anymore. I just had to this time

Sorry for the rambling - regards - Tom



Velu01
Registered: Aug 24, 2003
Total Posts: 2586
Country: Belgium

When I'd see this guy, I wouldn't think as much in terms of "disgrace to the uniform" but more "making a fool of himselve" !!!
He would not make me respect others in a "proper" outfit differently !

Just a tought tough, I was wondering .... what if a second photo got posted, full body shot.... this guy ... wearing shorts and ...... both legs were "replaced" by protheses
Would we become tolerant all of a sudden or maybe say "get a pants !!!!!!!" .... ?
Just wondering ...

Rgds
Velu



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