Well. My post no 5000 was about the M9. I will have to get me one then

jhapeman wrote:
Oooh! Looking good. Can't wait to see some pictures taken with it.

why?

brainiac wrote:
I don't know why Leica doesn't auction new M cameras when they come out. I bet there are quite a few who would pay well over the RRP. At some point the average auction price would reach the secret RRP at which point Leica could then issue them to dealers at that price. They would maximise profit that way. Canon has a go at this by sliding the RRP after a few months, but Leica could really rake in the cash due to pent up demand and hysterical desire.
How would their dealer network feel about this ?

that M9 got relisted. a few excerpts from the auction description if i might:

"Due to my inexperience selling skills on eBay, the first auction was unsuccessful."

"Now I'm re-listing it with conditions: No first or non genuine buyers please."

"As $9000 is my reserve price, so as soon as you become a bidder, I'll stop the auction and contact you for selling details."

...

tmark wrote:
brainiac wrote:
I don't know why Leica doesn't auction new M cameras when they come out. I bet there are quite a few who would pay well over the RRP. At some point the average auction price would reach the secret RRP at which point Leica could then issue them to dealers at that price. They would maximise profit that way. Canon has a go at this by sliding the RRP after a few months, but Leica could really rake in the cash due to pent up demand and hysterical desire.
How would their dealer network feel about this ?


Probably pretty good if they can auction stock through the authorised Leica auction site and share the profits with Leica. It's clear that early adopters are willing to pay extra for the privilege, so who will complain? We see this on auction sites whenever supply of new goods is limited, so why shouldn't dealers and manufacturers join in the fun?

brainiac wrote:
tmark wrote:
brainiac wrote:
I don't know why Leica doesn't auction new M cameras when they come out. I bet there are quite a few who would pay well over the RRP. At some point the average auction price would reach the secret RRP at which point Leica could then issue them to dealers at that price. They would maximise profit that way. Canon has a go at this by sliding the RRP after a few months, but Leica could really rake in the cash due to pent up demand and hysterical desire.
How would their dealer network feel about this ?


Probably pretty good if they can auction stock through the authorised Leica auction site and share the profits with Leica. It's clear that early adopters are willing to pay extra for the privilege, so who will complain? We see this on auction sites whenever supply of new goods is limited, so why shouldn't dealers and manufacturers join in the fun?
If Leica's auctioning the new cameras, first, as I understood your original post, how are the dealers going to share in the profit ? Is Leica going to split the profits with the dealers based on the number of M9s they *would* have been allocated had Leica decided not to circumvent the existing distribution methods ? Why not just let the dealer mark up the camera for whatever they think they can get for it ?

I don't think any dealer is going to want to sell a product if the company is selling them - and first - through some other channel. They want to be the ones there ready to sell you the extended warranties, the cases, the memory cards, and all the other high margin items that people buy with their cameras. And they want to be the place you go when you really want something. I cannot think of a single product that any company sells ahead of their dealers.

If everybody who really wants an M9 badly buys it from a Leica auction, who is left to sell M9s to ? The people who don't really want them that badly ? That hardly seems like a market a dealer wants to be servicing.

A store auctioning cameras would lose their authorized dealership status. Same applies to Canon and Nikon dealers. Conversely, what value would an authorized dealership status would be worth, if manufacturers sold directly to the public? Besides, their customer base would erode if the these companies exploited supply problems.

OK - sorry I suggested it ;-) Looks like it will just be a few of those speculators at the top of the dealer list who sell NIB versions on ebay at inflated prices then; clearly a better arrangement for all concerned, since profit from unfulfilled demand goes to disinterested and irresponsible 3rd parties.

brainiac wrote:
OK - sorry I suggested it ;-) Looks like it will just be a few of those speculators at the top of the dealer list who sell NIB versions on ebay at inflated prices then; clearly a better arrangement for all concerned, since profit from unfulfilled demand goes to disinterested and irresponsible 3rd parties.

The alternative would be dealers and manufacturers acting with a complete lack of integrity. Only buyer self control will dissuade "disinterested and irresponsible 3rd parties." I would never pay more than MSRP for a camera, car, etc.

Now, anybody want to buy my M9 for 9K, just PM me. Actually, I'll take 8.5.

James R wrote:
brainiac wrote:
OK - sorry I suggested it ;-) Looks like it will just be a few of those speculators at the top of the dealer list who sell NIB versions on ebay at inflated prices then; clearly a better arrangement for all concerned, since profit from unfulfilled demand goes to disinterested and irresponsible 3rd parties.

The alternative would be dealers and manufacturers acting with a complete lack of integrity. Only buyer self control will dissuade "disinterested and irresponsible 3rd parties." I would never pay more than MSRP for a camera, car, etc.

Now, anybody want to buy my M9 for 9K, just PM me. Actually, I'll take 8.5.

I don't see what's wrong with a market where the price fluctuates according to demand and supply. It's not exactly a controversial idea, even though we're all commies now.

snowboarder wrote:
jhapeman wrote:
Oooh! Looking good. Can't wait to see some pictures taken with it.

why?

Oh cry me a river!

I'm always enthusiastic to see shots from every system, and I've been contributing pictures from different lenses and systems to these forums consistently for over a year now.

Jeff was being polite, something you might want to try if you don't wish to be considered a luddite. If you cannot contribute anything to a thread maybe you should consider staying out of it. This is the polite way I am getting sick of your Leica vendetta.

This pretty much is how the current system works. Adding an eBuy type component would set a base price (7K) and then let those willing to pay more bid on the camera. The seller is always setting the minimum price. Than doesn't make sense to me, but, that might be my intellectual short fall. Right now, the market does set prices. The supply of D3 is greater than the demand and the price has fallen. The same happened to the 1Ds3.

thrice wrote:
snowboarder wrote:
jhapeman wrote:
Oooh! Looking good. Can't wait to see some pictures taken with it.

why?

Oh cry me a river!

I'm always enthusiastic to see shots from every system, and I've been contributing pictures from different lenses and systems to these forums consistently for over a year now.

Jeff was being polite, something you might want to try if you don't wish to be considered a luddite. If you cannot contribute anything to a thread maybe you should consider staying out of it. This is the polite way I am getting sick of your Leica vendetta.

Responding to Snowboard just encourages him. You either agree with him or you're wrong, discussions are not worth the time.

James R wrote:
Responding to Snowboard ...

James, my nick is "snowboarder" - it's a person who likes to ride a snowboard.
Might be a strange concept to you, but a "snowboard" is an object,
"snowboarder" is a person.

I never understood the point of having local dealers for high ticket items, all they do is add their cost margin, logistical delays and in most cases a good deal of infuriating ignorance and bias. Are there really people out there who are in the market for a 10k camera and rely on their local 20 year old salesperson's wisdom and 5 minute training to make up their minds? Or people who walk into a store, see a Leica for the first time and go "hey this looks nice, gimme one, here's my credit card!"

Do these people actually exist

snowboarder is an useless troll, ignore it.

snowboarder wrote:
James R wrote:
Responding to Snowboard ...

James, my nick is "snowboarder" - it's a person who likes to ride a snowboard.
Might be a strange concept to you, but a "snowboard" is an object,
"snowboarder" is a person.


By "nick" I know you meant nickname and by snowboard you knew I was referencing you. However, you have my apology for not proof reading my post before hitting the send button. I so hate being inaccurate. Nice hearing from you again.

Spyro P. wrote:
I never understood the point of having local dealers for high ticket items, all they do is add their cost margin, logistical delays and in most cases a good deal of infuriating ignorance and bias. Are there really people out there who are in the market for a 10k camera and rely on their local 20 year old salesperson's wisdom and 5 minute training to make up their minds? Or people who walk into a store, see a Leica for the first time and go "hey this looks nice, gimme one, here's my credit card!"

Do these people actually exist

I think they do, they're call rich. I heard about this guy who went to a lighting demonstration at a camera store. He was so impressed with all the equipment that he asked the store manager how much all the equipment would cost. He bought on the spot and brought home to his studio. He still has not used the stuff after 2 yrs. He is very rich.

Nice, I like rich people. Next time you see him send him my way, I have some vintage items for sale. True collectable garage-chic

James R wrote:
Nice hearing from you again.

Apology accepted Look, we are all civilized here, I admit I don't respect a company
which is creating a cult around their products and have people believe something like that:

snowboarder wrote:
James R wrote:
Nice hearing from you again.

Apology accepted Look, we are all civilized here, I admit I don't respect a company
which is creating a cult around their products and have people believe something like that:

is actually worth $10000, but I don't call people names like unfortunately some here do


Every camera company has a cult following here and other forums-Sony, Canon, Nikon, etc. Around the Nikon and Canon forums they are called fan-boys. I too don't like name calling. You may not call Leica fans names, but, you do disparage the Leica brand and those who use their cameras with some of your comments.

I think we need to give people room to develop their own photographic preferences, without taking shots at those decisions. I bought an M9 because I enjoy using a RF and I can afford the camera, beyond that I don't feel the need to justify my decision.

Snowboarder , do you really care what camera a person uses? In the end, isn't the final print what is important? I look at your body of work and never say, WOW, what a camera. I do marvel at the images, not the camera.

I'd point out to snowboarder that Carl Zeiss has a likewise cult reputation, and their products are also priced with a heavy (albeit not Leica-heavy) premium. That doesn't stop you from using CZ lenses does it?

snowboarder wrote:
James R wrote:
Nice hearing from you again.

Apology accepted Look, we are all civilized here, I admit I don't respect a company
which is creating a cult around their products and have people believe something like that:

One thing I will say is: Wow this LCD is terrible. I mean it's bright and viewable etc... but it's such a low res and poor detail coming from the 5D Mark II screen Not going to influence my photos as I'm used to my M6 which has no LCD, just a little discouraging when you review your shots and they look like ass until you get them on the computer.

I think I'll turn review off

Oh and Auto WB in tungsten... not good. Let's hope firmware fixes it. Other than that the camera is a lot quicker than people made it out to be, the zooming in on images on the LCD doesn't take that long, and menu reaction is prompt. I manually coded all my lenses (none are coded) with little effort using Bo Lorentzen's $6 coding kit I have yet to review all the shots on the computer since I don't think I've shot enough to do a decent evaluation. We have some nice weather today so I'll get out there at sunset.

Thrice,

Somebody said they put the WB on cloudy and they make fewer WB PP adjustments. Huff may be right that the LCD will be a 9.2 change.