Hello and first of all thanks for reading this and giving your opinion

I had a Rebel 400D for 2 years along with a EF 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 II & EF 50mm f/1.8 II. It was an enjoyable kit for me, my first, and was taken on many trips that brought back pics which pleased a lot of people i know (nothing like you guys of course) and even people i didnt (would leave me comments on facebook etc. about some photos they liked). I had sold the kit to a friend at work who was having his first child since I had recently dropped the hobby due to involvement picking up at work. The economy kinda slowed down work and I was thinking of picking up the hobby again and pursuing it even farther.

I was considering a 7D w/ the 17-55mm EF-S lens as my next move back into photography. I have been following the camera since before it was released and try to stay abreast with its development and issues on this board as well as online articles and reviews. I really loved the enhancements/features of the camera in comparison to my older 400D and have already downloaded and read the entire manual (PDF format) to see just how overwhelming it would be.

I guess the big question is, in your professional/personal experience do you think this camera is too much for me at this point? I had looked at the 500D and decided I didnt want another rebel fore what was the reason of selling my older model if I would just replace it with another one. No one speaks very highly of the 50D, stating you are better off with an older model like the 40D (still sells for 600+) so I figured why not go or the 7D...however I am aware that I could be feature happy and just wanting the latest and greatest. I am also totally aware that the best camera will not make me the best photographer. I am green and plan to invest my time learning the art for however long it takes me and my initial thought was..."welll, ill grow into it". What do you think and thanks

humbly,
nikko

nope

get it.

The 50D is actually a very nice camera from what I've learned but apparently requires time well spent learning it to get the most out of it. The 7D requires even more to get the most out of it. I've shot Canon EOS for about 15 years, everything from Rebels and the 1v to 10Ds, 20/30Ds, the occasional 1-series, and now my 7D. There is a lot to learn about the 7D, especially the AF and the video and I think it has a steeper learning curve than most EOS bodies aside from the 1-series, but I know that the time spent learning it will most certainly be worth it. The 7D is one of my favorite EOS bodies yet. If you're willing to spend the time learning it to get the most from it, then no, it's not too much for you. If you feel that you can use what the 7D offers to most effectively convey your photographic vision, then it's the camera you're looking for. I think you'll love it!

Andy

I went from the original rebel (300 I think) to the 30D to the 7D. If it isn't too taxing on the budget, get it. Normally, I take about 10K shots a year. I've done 3.5 K in the first month, with very few at 8 fps. I'm taking a lot of shots, because I'm confident it's going to get the shot I want. Keeper rate is much higher. If you buy this camera, also budget for a new 2 TB drive. I'll have to get one soon, after upgrading to a 1 TB less than a year ago.

I just moved up from a 350d to a 40D and couldn't be happier. I say save the money get a 40D and spend the extra on good glass.

That's been the way I build my kit was by focusing on getting good glass and then upgrading the body when I found it to be limiting. I'm sure the 7D is well worth the money so I'm sure your not wasting it, but I'm thinking you will be better off with better glass.

Thanks for all the input so far I understand what everyone is saying and believe I am just fighting myself now for wanting the newer more feature rich 7D. I like to do video alot with my Flip HD Mino so I'm assuming the 7D will be even more useful in that regard. But honestly i knew these types of answers were coming and I appreciate the honesty.

Someone is offering me a used 30d w/ a 85mm f/1.8 for 700shipped...very tempting. How does the 30D measure up to a 40D? I see the 30D got higher marks on the FM reviews board even though its older...better marks than a 50D even.


Thanks!
nikko

When the 30D came out...people wern't jaded from having seen to many new great things...You don't seem to have many lenses to go with this $1699 camera. To get the most out of a camera with the potential you need glass..good glass. It is not the camera , but the glass that makes the picture. It is like the eye(lens) without it the brain(camera) does not see. The video without a good lens will only be as good as an inexpensive video camera.....Rich

I just got the 7D, but I agree that a better route for you may be the 30D/40D/50D. I have 40D and it is really nice. It's probably exactly between the Rebel and 7D, in terms of AF and functionality.

Your 28-105 is actually a pretty nice lens that has served many people well.

Figure out which focal length you like the most (28mm, 50mm or 105mm) and perhaps think of upgrading to some better lenses. The Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 might be a good lens for you try if you like the wider angles. If you like longer shots, the 70-200 f/4 could be your first entry into L lenses. And the 85 f/1.8 or 100 f/2 are nice if you need a longer prime. You can probably get all three of these lenses for the price of a 7D. Don't be afraid to buy used.

Good luck and feel free to ask questions. Everyone learns from questions.

I think more research is in order, what do you shot or plan to?, what lenses does this need ?Consider having a plan.
Of glass, what quality do you want, zoom or prime, flash, tripod, processing software, bag, and lastly camera. We will all tell you something different.
regards

Hi there,

No doubt it is a tuff choice to make. Many users will tell you "Just get the 7D, it is magnificent" and despite i never even holded one in my hands, for what i have read and seen i am sure it is a wonderfull camera.

But like you i also had to make choices and my best advice is to tell you what i did and my findings.

I bought a used 30D and love it. I payed about 350€ for it, wich is about 1/5th the price of a new 7D. This was 2 years ago, not now. It was and still is my first EOS-D body (i had analog) and it provided me with a wonderfull, strong and easy to use camera. My learning curve was very quick, but i use it almost every day. I believe the XXD cameras are much much better in terms of praticality and ease of use, thus improving your learnings faster that the Rebel series. I just dont feel confortable using a rebel (some of my friends have them), too plastic and i miss the dial control.

So with the rest of the money, you already know...i spent it on glass and accessories. No only lens, but tripods, filters, remotes, hoods and Books !!
So this is my current gear, for you to have a perspective on "how much" money was spent on the camera (30D) alone :

- 17-40L (this was my first lens...wonderfull , love it on a crop)
- 50mm 1.4 (second lens...great great pictures with a giant aperture)
- 70-210 f4 (third lens...old and bought used on ebay..but decent when use in good light)

I spent almost 2 years with this gear, bought also Manfrotto tripod and head, several fitlers and read a lot of books.
A few months back i was looking at the new 7D and thought about upgrading....is it really the time ? Lots and lots of reading and thinking ....and i made a decision, going the same route . So i bought lens again and kept the 30D wich still is a GREAT body!

- 10-22 EF-S (I was missing the WA a lot and this is ASBOLUTLY STUNNING)
- 24-105L (Much better walkaround lens than the 17-40 wich is now resting at home)

I get great shots with this combo. Many say it is not the camera but the photographer that makes the picture. That..and the lens.

Of course you will not have 8fps (do you really need it? my 30D is 5fps)
You will not have video (again...it takes a lot of good glass and a lot of SKILL to use the video correctly...it is a very different aproach from photography)
You wil not have 18MP, but i can live with my 8MP. The 40D has 10MP.

Think well...consider the budget and what you do with it.
I am so happy with my camera (specially because it only costed me 10% of all the combo together !!! wich means i can replace whenever i feel to it! )

Once again thanks for the bucket loads of info...seems i should totally eliminate the 7D from my plans and rightly so

I have mostly shot photos of cars, a few landscape, people and even my cousins budget wedding. Below are a few samples, please be gentle...I'm obv a rookie lol. I pretty much want to continue shooting the same stuff.

I am originally from Jamaica and was recently persuaded by a friend of mine to do some wedding photography down there as the majority of the locals dont really know the difference between sharp enough and tack sharp...meaning i could probably get by. I'm also fairly handy around CS4 (part of my job) and usually, not always, have a way of fixing photos i totally destroy on the user end. I have given that some thought...and if the economy continues the way it is going i might give it an honest effort. My sister does wedding party rentals on the island which lends itself perfectly to a no brainer marketing of my services...i think lol. Just a thought...i know weddings arent easy...ive done one and it was hard, mostly the touching up afterwards since my photography skills are still mostly amateur.

Other than this I still love shooting people, cars and landscape and will use whichever body I go with for all of that as well.

The glass I was thinking of getting are the following (comments welcome):

1) EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8
2) EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5
3) EF 50mm f/1.4
4) EF 85mm f/1.8
5) EF 35mm f/2
6) EF 70-200mm f/4L
7) EF-S 60mm Macro

Equipment:

1) Manfrotto 7302YB M-Y Tripod with Ball
2) Canon Speedlite 580EX II
3) Canon RC-1
4) Lowepro Rezo 180 AW Camera Bag

I have to admit I am terrified of buying used. I never buy used. This used body I am considering would be pretty much my first used item ever, in any category. I dont think I am better than used goods, I am just one of those people that likes to open a new box so I know the history of the item I own from beginning to end...no drops, mistreats, etc. Thanks for the confidence PYTHON, i will surely look into used lenses...any tips on what to look for..its kinda scary trusting someone you dont know from a forum.

Lastly...im guessing I should look for a 40D over a 30D is what most people are saying...newer processor? Bigger Screen? Any stand out reasons? Thanks everyone and sorry if I run on too much


well...really lastly...some samples of my work.

1) Car:

Beautiful work, Nikko! Those are really very nice photos. As for the 30D versus the 40D, sure the 40D is 'better' since it has significant improvements such as all nine AF points being cross-type sensors, 10mp (not a big deal when compared to 8mp, which is enough for everything but really huge prints and very aggressive cropping), Live-view, better high-ISO performance. The 30D is no slouch though and is really a lovely, very complete camera. I had specific reasons for upgrading to the 7D but I plan to keep the 30D. If you can get a deal on a 30D, go for it. But if your budget can allow you to get a 40D (or 50D) and the lenses you want, that would be a great route to take.

Andy

PS-That car shot is awesome!

really really great info mactuna...def think im going that route as well. Also good to hear such good things about a used 30D. I currently deciding if I need a 40D of if a 30D will work. 30D just sounds as old as my 400D w/ less MP. However like i mentioned in the postt up up above I can get one on the board now with the 85mm f/1.8(one of the lenses I want) for 700 bucks. Not sure how great of a value that is. The cheapest 40D ive seen on here is 625...obv with no lens.

I will say this...i am really really glad I decided to ask these questions before just buying the 7D like I originally planned. I wouldnt say Im rich, but money is not the issue...ive been saving a while for an upgrade..I just want to make sure I allocate it the best way possible...more and more...the 7D is not seeming like the way to go...Ill just keep buying books from amazon until I decide which one to pull the trigger on.

thanks again everyone...anymore comments would be greatly appreciated.

racoll wrote:
Beautiful work, Nikko! Those are really very nice photos. As for the 30D versus the 40D, sure the 40D is 'better' since it has significant improvements such as all nine AF points being cross-type sensors, 10mp (not a big deal when compared to 8mp, which is enough for everything but really huge prints and very aggressive cropping), Live-view, better high-ISO performance. The 30D is no slouch though and is really a lovely, very complete camera. I had specific reasons for upgrading to the 7D but I plan to keep the 30D. If you can get a deal on a 30D, go for it. But if your budget can allow you to get a 40D (or 50D) and the lenses you want, that would be a great route to take.

Andy

PS-That car shot is awesome!


Lol thanks Andy, seems we crossed each other in typing our posts. Thank you very much, this is my very first photo post ever on this site and it really feels good to hear someone say they are nice to look at. You are the man! (even if u were lying to me haha jk)

To answer your question I have the budget for the 40D (wouldn't go 50D...rather have 7D for something so relatively new/expensive) but my main concern now is 625 for a 40D more cost effective than 700 for a 30D/85mm combo.... what do u think?

Thats my mazdaspeed3, its my baby...thanks again for the kind words, made my day!...it was my favorite shot as well...thrifty fifty and my old 400D

misternikko wrote:
I like to do video alot with my Flip HD Mino so I'm assuming the 7D will be even more useful in that regard. But honestly i knew these types of answers were coming and I appreciate the honesty.

Unlike traditional consumer video equipment, DSLR video is much more difficult to use. The AF makes things difficult and almost requires keeping the camera stationary unless you can live with a rather narrow aperture with a wide angle lens to increase DoF. I wouldn't use video as a main criteria for choosing a camera.

$700 is a pretty good deal considering used 30Ds are going for anywhere from $425-$450; I sold one of mine a month ago for $550 with the grip. Used 85/1.8s in very nice condition run anywhere from $250-$300 or so, right around the $700 mark when combined. Make sure the 30D is in very good condition. It really is a very nice camera and still puts up great performance in comparison to newer models, which is one reason I don't want to part with my last 30D. Still, read up on the 40D and then decide. $625-$675 is a really good price for a superb camera like the 40D and it might be worth the difference in price. As for your pictures, I was being straight up honest. That shot of your Mazda kicks! The rest are really nice as well; you obviously have a very good eye for composition and interesting subjects, so I'm sure that whatever camera you settle on will be put to good use. I hope you start posting more shots.

Andy

Nikko,

Buying used is fine, just do some research.

With camera bodies, you want to be aware of actuations and repair history. Also, ask if there are any defects or damage. You'd be amazed at how many times there are and the seller doesn't mention them (particularly on eBay). Beyond that, I generally judge bodies by their cosmetic condition. You can bet that a 30D that has been babied enough to look good on the outside is probably still good on the inside. Conversely, one that appears to have been used in a war zone is probably filled with dust and may have loose components. I've purchased three camera bodies used and never had a problem. The worst issue I've faced was a bit of dust on the sensor, which was easy to remove with a rocket blower.

These days, I only purchase my lenses used. I don't see any reason to buy them new. You can buy a used lens at a good deal and sell it without a loss if you don't like it. With lenses, ask about the date code (only the nicer Canon lenses have them), and the optical and mechanical quality of the lens. Ask for pictures if none are provided. Once again, someone who's kept their lens looking nice cosmetically has probably treated it well generally. I'm wary of ones that have battle scars but supposedly work well. Also, someone who's saved all of the original packaging and such may be slightly more reliable, but that's not always true.

As for the gear you're considering purchasing, I would recommend getting at least a 40D. I owned a 30D, and I remember the 40D looking like a nice improvement. I also had a 400D, and the 30D, lower pixel count and all, is significantly better. It meters much better, is nicer to hold, works faster, and has vastly superior AF (in my experience). The 40D is even better. A LOT of 30Ds were sold when it came out. I don't think the same was true with the 50D. Also, if you have the money, the 7D looks fantastic. It's clearly a significant step up from the 40D, and offers a lot more than video improvements (flash commander, much more sophisticated AF, better high ISO performance, micro-focus adjust, etc.). It's good not to waste money on a body you don't need, BUT, I guarantee you, if you really want a 7D, and you buy a 40D, you'll end up selling the 40D to upgrade sooner rather than later, and when you do, you'll probably lose money and you could have had the 7D to begin with. That said, if you can handle having less than the latest and greatest features, then there's a lot to be said for owning last year's camera. You can save a lot of money that way, and your body will depreciate far less.

Personally, I upgraded from a 30D to a 5D. If image quality is more important to you than feature set and speed, then you should really consider the 5D. You can pick them up for about $1200 on buy/sell, and they're still amazing. They offer better high ISO performance, per pixel sharpness, depth of field, etc. than any APS-C camera. The 5D would be well suited to the type of photography you said you enjoy.

As for lenses, if you want to stick to APS-C cams, the 17-55 f/2.8 IS is a must. I still miss it, and I have some really nice glass (16-35 IIL, 24-105 ISL, 70-200 2.8 ISL, 35L, 50L, 85L, 50 1.4). You can get some fantastic deals on it used, just look for a copy without internal dust (a problem with some copies).

I think an ultra-wide zoom is a no-brainer, so either the 10-22 for APS-C, or the 17-40/16-35 II for FF.

All of the 70-200 zooms are great. If you can afford it, IS is really nice to have at longer focal lengths.

If you have to decide between zooms and primes, I would start with mostly zooms, and maybe add one general purpose prime for low light (e.g., 50 1.4). It's easy to get caught up with the great IQ of primes, but there's no replacing a zoom for convenience when you don't have time to set up the shot (e.g., weddings).

Nice shots, btw.

The car shot is fantastic. I love the colors.

The Temple of Heaven could benefit from being straightened out a bit, IMO. Just curious, why did you make that photo B/W? The blue tiles on that building are AMAZING!

wow. great read ace, thank you very much

I actually pulled the trigger on a 3996 exposure 40D today with 2 canon batteries for roughly 6 and half bills. The body was super clean as you described as a necessity and the exposure count makes it as good as new. Really nice guy to deal with also (FM member). I am sure at some point I will get jealous and will want the 7D, however as I have seen throughout several threads while i was still lurking...the 40D makes a great back up camera so I would probably keep the one Im getting since its already at such a good starting point in terms of its condition. Maybe I can hold out long enough for a 7D Mk II lol...who knows...we will see how it goes.

My main priority now is finding a USED (thanks for the tip) EF-S 17-55mm & EF-S 10-22mm lens to get my "new used" kit underway followed by a 50mm 1.4. I have seen a few however like you said the whole purpose of buying used is for getting a deal and lessening the chance of depreciation if I dont like it...but so far...wow...i guess those 2 EF-S lenses are popular cuz the prices I have seen, especially considering canon's rebates that are out now, are really unrealistic for used glass IMO.

Ill cut my babble short, this thread was a real deal changer for me and I sincerly appreciate EVERYONE'S input...i cant wait to get my new used 40D and start taking some photos again

(back to reading my downloaded manual)

Hi Misternikko,

You won't regret that 40D, it really is an excellent camera. I use mine for wildlife and I love the ergonomics, the IQ and the performance of the camera.

I don't have many of the lenses that you list in your proposed lineup above, but I can tell you that the EF 70-200mm f/4L is a sensational lens, I have the non-IS version and it is a joy to use.

Nice shots - especially the car.

Enjoy your new camera!

Paul.