can someone recommend a good boom arm and stand setup? I guess my budget is about $300 for this. I don't want to cheap out on this setup as I know it is quite important to make sure that it doesn't topple over or anything. if possible it'd be nice if i could bring the stand out for on location shoots.

i'd like to hang a studio strobe with a beauty dish or octa/softbox

how does something like this
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/204456-REG/Avenger_A4050CS_A4050CS_Junior_Boom_Stand.html#features

compare with

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/243966-REG/Avenger_A2030DKIT_A2030D_Turtle_Base_Century.html

or is there a stand I can pair something like this with
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/325362-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_085BSL_Heavy_Duty_Boom_Arm_.html


i want to buy the right stuff the first time around and be sure nothing falls on anyone and nothing gets broken.

Also, what is a grip arm? How is it different from a boom arm? just terminology?


Thanks!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but AFAIK a boom arm extends, while a grip arm does not (telescoping tube vs. solid bar).

Knowing the folks here, most people will recommend either your second link (A2030DKIT) or this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/112099-REG/Matthews_756140_Century_C_Turtle_Base.html

The 4050CS is no joke. It's huge and heavy. Not portable. But will last you a lifetime, no doubt. Also, it's highly advisable to buy a counterweight for it. Lastly, i couldn't break it if i tried. Seriously. It's very hardcore.

THe C stand one is nice too but can't hold as much weight. If you want portability go with the second. My 4050CS will never, ever leave the studio.

The Avenger D600 or D650 on a suiting stand is my suggestion.

Thanks for the info on the 4050CS. Didn't know it was like that! haha Maybe I can get that later on if I need it.

I was looking at the AvengerD600 and D650 as well...didn't know which stand to pair with though.

What is a suiting stand?


thanks for the help!

I'd suggest either an Avenger / Manfrotto cine stand or the century stand you linked to. Just make sure that it's receptor fits to the D650 (all receptors) or D650 (1 1/8" male stud). When choosing booms it's better to err to the more sturdy side in my experience.
(I'd also consider to put castors to the stand. Easy moving and helps to prevent the boom from tipping over)

The D600 uses a baby pin, the D650 is a junior. And I think Peter means a rolling stand, they're infinitely more practical when you've got a 10lb counterweight, 5lb head on the other end, and 15-30lbs of sandbags on the bottom.

Yes, that's what Peter meant

so you suggest d650 and an avenger stand? looking at the stands on BH i notice the attachment size is all 5/8" stud. is that what you are talking about?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/243719-REG/Avenger_A2030DCB_A2030D_Turtle_Base_Century.html#specifications

i am definitely considering casters.


thanks.

Okay, before you go out and buy the Avenger A4050CS Junior Boom Stand, let me just tell you that I have the exact same thing (the older version that was called the A700, it's identical) and the above poster is right - it is no joke.

If you want to "buy right the first time" then maybe it's good, but just consider this:

It's big, and heavy, and I had to take it outside to bring out the boom arm from the center column because my ceilings are too low. And then bringing it back inside with the arm sticking out was tough, but carrying this thing by hand ANYWHERE is not very fun.

The stand is really designed to hold heavy hot lights for film-making. IMO, it's way overkill for a strobe and the largest softbox you can find on the planet, but it's so nice to just keep in the studio (once you have it set up and ready to go) to quickly attach a light for overhead, without having to setup a grip arm/grip head, boom arm, cinestand and/or century stand, and your lights will never fall on anyone.

A grip arm is designed to hold a million different things, from flags, scrims, pins, lights, gobos, etc. You'll see a million of them on a movie set holding scrims to diffuse or block light.

The Avenger ( http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/243966-REG/Avenger_A2030DKIT_A2030D_Turtle_Base_Century.html ) is top notch, but it's a 40 inch arm, which might not suit you. You can always place another arm in the first arm.

To mount a light, just stick this pin: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/243787-REG/Avenger_E650_E650_Baby_5_8_Pin.html
into the grip arm and you're ready to go with a light.

I personally like having the century stands and the arms because you can use them as booms and take them anywhere. The big ass boom stand on the other hand...

40 inches...hmm... would i need/want something longer to extend over a person? thats only about 3 feet and it doesn't seem very long for the stand to be out of the way. but i have never actually used one so i don't know where they are usually positioned.

could i buy a longer boom arm (d600/d650/manfrotto) and use it on the Avenger stand?

thanks for all the help. its been great!

Yeah, it sounds like you probably want something longer, but I also thought the same thing before I got the A700.

The D600 can be used on any stand with the typical 5/8" stud (light stands, century stands), but the D650 would require a Cinestand that has the 1-1/8" female receptor, so you'd need a stand like this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/512589-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_126BSU_126BSU_Heavy_Duty_Steel.html or: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/512237-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_270CSU_270CSU_Super_Steel_Cine.html .

There's a lot of choices when it comes to cinestands.

Ahh...
century, cine stands
junior, baby
i never paid attention to those before.
what is the ranking in size/strength?

wow if i go d650 and one of those cinestands its easily over $300.

a d600 with an avenger A420 is about $300 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/3554-REG/Avenger_A5029_A420_Wheeled_Light_Stand.html

i think i would prefer the sliding counterweight of the d650 over the hook on the end for the d600 though.

opinions on anything? thanks!

dchu wrote:
Ahh...
century, cine stands
junior, baby
i never paid attention to those before.
what is the ranking in size/strength?


C-stands are solid and have a small footprint, but aren't as hardcore as cine/combo stands. You can see the differences here: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/827970/0#7687381

dchu wrote:


i think i would prefer the sliding counterweight of the d650 over the hook on the end for the d600 though.

opinions on anything? thanks!




You can attach the sliding counter weight on the D600. That's how I have mine setup using a 008CSU stand with an E200 junior to baby adapter pin. Very sturdy and I can take it with me anywhere.

dchu wrote:
i think i would prefer the sliding counterweight of the d650 over the hook on the end for the d600 though.


Realize that the D600 has a sliding counterweight by way of adjustable boom center.

It goes without saying that booms are extremely dangerous, but I am always dismayed at the improper and unsafe ways people use booms, such as:

Improper leg orientation (typically due to lack of attention).
Insufficient base ballast (generally because of laziness).
Unsafe lock/release methods (due to ignorance or inexperience).
Incorrect boom counterbalance (commonly a result of expediency or indifference)

Any of these deficiencies demonstrate a complete lack of concern for others and are unequivocally the quickest ways to get fired as an assistant.

Safety first.

Good luck.

Carmen Miranda wrote:Insufficient base ballast (generally because of laziness).



what do you mean by base ballast?

abdul10000 wrote:
Carmen Miranda wrote:Insufficient base ballast (generally because of laziness).



what do you mean by base ballast?

Sand bags, base weight, tie downs, rigging, etc.

Counterbancing, IS NOT the same as base ballast. Base ballast lowers stand COG (center of gravity) and increases overall stability of the system. Counterbalance should be used only as an offset to weight being supported, mainly because it raises COG and is not centered on the support axis. As counterbalance weight increases so should base ballast to minimize instability.

Using heavier counterweights in CLOSER to the stand axis in order to avoid using a wider stand or in an effort to decrease rear clearance and increase boom extension without sufficient base ballast is not best practice.

Good luck.

Sounds to me what you are looking for is one of these: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/512958-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_085BS_Heavy_Duty_Boom_and.html

The stand is plenty heavy enough to support a strobe head and any size light modifier. The boom is 9 feet long and comes in 3 pieces so you can use 1 or 2 sections if you need to. At 9 feet you can hang a BD right out in front of your subject and keep the stand well out of the way of reflectors and other light sources. It comes with a counter weight and wheels. I have owned two of these for 22 years and have never had issues with them supporting any light combo I stick on them. They do make a 9 foot adjustable head version but I prefer the 9 foot 3 section boom for portability.

Carmen Miranda wrote:

It goes without saying that booms are extremely dangerous, but I am always dismayed at the improper and unsafe ways people use booms, such as:

Improper leg orientation (typically due to lack of attention).
Insufficient base ballast (generally because of laziness).
Unsafe lock/release methods (due to ignorance or inexperience).
Incorrect boom counterbalance (commonly a result of expediency or indifference)

Any of these deficiencies demonstrate a complete lack of concern for others and are unequivocally the quickest ways to get fired as an assistant.
Safety first.
Good luck.
Carmen, are there any resources online or in print where proper boom hygiene is explained well?

amplexis wrote:
Carmen, are there any resources online or in print where proper boom hygiene is explained well?


Amplexis,

Here's a miserable few:

Print:
Uva's Basic Grip Book
The Grip Book

Videos;
Most UToobs suck, but search them anyway.

Professional organizations:
ASC
ASMP

Web:
Grip forum at http://www.cinematography.com

Some of this is common sense but when it comes to safety that's not enough. Best practice grip discipline is typically passed through apprenticeship process, either as best boy or photographers assistant. Surprisingly grip manufacturer's like Avenger and Matthews don't offer much instruction and most grip companies like FilmTools only provide trade resource links at best. In the biz, resources, training and experience are generally assumed. Things are changing somewhat these days as independents become more prevalent and active. I see manufacturers assuming more of a educational leadership role in the future, as in the case of Lowel with their EDU section of their website, as a way to address safety vs. cost concerns.

This topic would be an excellent opportunity for some ambitious Key Grip to step out and share his knowledge along the lines of Chuck's excellent toots, but unfortunately I can't repeat what my grip friends would say if I ever asked them to do this. Let's just say they are a salty lot.

IMO the most overlooked resource for grip is your nearest rental house. These counter jockeys don't get near the respect they deserve. Try renting a few different stands and booms and let them train you. There is a reason why grip is best learned hand to hand and not so much out of a book or a forum. Be sure to tell them, "boom boom" sent ya'.

Good luck.

I have the D650, and it's the one piece of photo gear that could kill me in a thoughtless moment. With 25-lb fixture and counterweight, the mass over my head is 60 lb. Lengthening the boom requires an iterative sequence of loosening and tightening screws, moving the boom over the stand, moving the counterweight, and extending tubes. I can't even raise the boom without a third hand (shoulda got the MSE Crank-O-Vator ).

Carmen Miranda wrote:

IMO the most overlooked resource for grip is your nearest rental house. These counter jockeys don't get near the respect they deserve. Try renting a few different stands and booms and let them train you. There is a reason why grip is best learned hand to hand and not so much out of a book or a forum. Be sure to tell them, "boom boom" sent ya'.

Good luck.
Abundant gratitude, Carmen. Tho I did spend a few years working on feature films in the 90s doing visual effects; all the practical and stage folk regarded me with open hostility because i was bringing computer simulation into the mix which they saw as threatening. Now that i'm nothing more than a curious bum who enjoys discovering the wisdom of the hudson river school painters by lighting a bit of landscape, i am poor and travel is limited.
there are no rental houses in my neighborhood that i know of. So i usually accept gifts of gear when people want to show their appreciation. Figuring out how to use the gear is a bigger problem. i'll order the books you mention.

amplexis wrote:Figuring out how to use the gear is a bigger problem. i'll order the books you mention.


Piece o' cake, just don't forget the NoDoz.

JBPhotog wrote:
Sounds to me what you are looking for is one of these: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/512958-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_085BS_Heavy_Duty_Boom_and.html

The stand is plenty heavy enough to support a strobe head and any size light modifier. The boom is 9 feet long and comes in 3 pieces so you can use 1 or 2 sections if you need to. At 9 feet you can hang a BD right out in front of your subject and keep the stand well out of the way of reflectors and other light sources. It comes with a counter weight and wheels. I have owned two of these for 22 years and have never had issues with them supporting any light combo I stick on them. They do make a 9 foot adjustable head version but I prefer the 9 foot 3 section boom for portability.


wow that pretty much solves the problems. of mix and matching.