Have the bride or groom provide the music they want on the original CD. End of story.

Doesn't matter who provides it, if it isn't licensed for that use, it's an infringement. The typical commercial "home" music recordings aren't licensed for that use. The CD (whatever) probably has a license statement in fine print on the jacket. They just aren't as obvious as the license statements on most videos, vhs or dvd, etc.

Just like infringing uses of one's photographic products. The likelihood of finding them out and successfully prosecuting them is slim - but the recording industry has been quite aggressive and successful in prosecuting copiers when they have made the effort.

A massive topic indeed. If I buy and album off of itunes and use it for a slideshow I wouldn't feel bad about it at all. They made their coin from it and it is not selling anything. The products are the photos which are paid for in their own merit. I haven't made a slideshow yet but in all honesty I would probably put the info the song in case people like it.

If I buy an album from a pawn shop does the pawn shop send royalties to the musician? Now what if I buy an album from a pawn shop and then use it for a slieshow! ? Snap!

Craig Gillette wrote:
Doesn't matter who provides it, if it isn't licensed for that use, it's an infringement. The typical commercial "home" music recordings aren't licensed for that use. The CD (whatever) probably has a license statement in fine print on the jacket. They just aren't as obvious as the license statements on most videos, vhs or dvd, etc.

Just like infringing uses of one's photographic products. The likelihood of finding them out and successfully prosecuting them is slim - but the recording industry has been quite aggressive and successful in prosecuting copiers when they have made the effort.

That's actually incorrect. The "license" is for "personal use".

If you are the legal owner of the music (as the bride/groom), you have every right to make copies of the music for yourself - including to accompany your personal use slideshow.

Asking a photographer to copy that music to your slideshow for you (as the bride/groom) is not a breach of that right... as long as the photographer does not charge for copying the music for that person. This is easily taken care of with some simple wording in your contract stating that original music for any slideshow must be provided by the client.

The bride/groom is still the legal owner of the music no matter how you cut it. (I just wouldn't allow them to bring me an mp3 on a burned disk - I'd want to see the original)

The funny thing about copyright law is if the bride/groom ever sell that CD at a garage sale (or whatever) in the future, they legally have to destroy that copy of music that accompanies the slideshow.

If none of this were the case, we wouldn't have things like iPods and iTunes.

Just FYI...if anyone is at all into Vampire Weekend, I called and asked to go through the 'permission to use' process for "Giving up the Gun" in a promo video we are shooting today and tomorrow.

I called up the representing firm for the label and artist and told them, "Hey, I'm from small town Iowa and will be shooting a promo video that'll last around 3 minutes and I wanted to use Vampire Weekends song for about 45 seconds."

She replied, "For 6 months term and 45 seconds of the song would cost a total of $10,000."

I choked and then asked if the fee is on any sort of 'sliding scale' as our budget for the promo video itself is not even half that. I asked if they would charge the same for a feature film. She said, "No, we'd charge much more."

Unbelievable. And I thought that they were an 'indie' band on a small label.

edit: sorry, I realize this is a tad bit OT but thought I'd share since we are talking copyright + music.

I noticed the this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu1R6w1Mh90

uses lady Gaga music. So, can Fstoppers get in trouble for this? What about Youtube?

It would be nice to do something like this, but not if you get sued for it.

amonline,

I wish you were right, but you're not.

It probably *should* be the way you describe... or maybe it should be that way, plus maybe paying a reasonable yearly fee for the right to synchronize music.

But it's NOT the way you describe.

You would need a sync license to add music to a slideshow.

teebat wrote:
I noticed the this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu1R6w1Mh90

uses lady Gaga music. So, can Fstoppers get in trouble for this? What about Youtube?

It would be nice to do something like this, but not if you get sued for it.

Youtuve regularly removes music from video's and the alternative is youtube bought music you can dub over it. However it is a non-server side removal, it has to be reported first.

lisy78 wrote:
amonline,

I wish you were right, but you're not.

It probably *should* be the way you describe... or maybe it should be that way, plus maybe paying a reasonable yearly fee for the right to synchronize music.

But it's NOT the way you describe.

You would need a sync license to add music to a slideshow.

Um, not quite.

"Sync" licensing is for commercial re-broadcasting of copyrighted material. It is used for re-broadcasting audio with video in the entertainment industry. It's how an artist gets paid when their works are used in a movie, TV show, etc.

Again, the topic of using music in a wedding slideshow boils down to "personal use" and is completely legal as long as the bride/groom is the legal owner of the music being used. As long as the video is not sold, and is used for "personal use", there is no license needed. Legally, they cannot even show it on the internet.

But hey, what do I know... I only worked as a professional in the music industry half my life. I actually own several copyrights in the music industry. I can tell you that the LAST person I worry about copying my work to their video is a bride/groom.. or even a photographer. As a professional musician, I worry far more about those reproducing my work to RESELL. Ever heard of RIAA? They don't go after brides.

If you are the legal owner of the music (as the bride/groom), you have every right to make copies of the music for yourself - including to accompany your personal use slideshow.

Asking a photographer to copy that music to your slideshow for you (as the bride/groom) is not a breach of that right... as long as the photographer does not charge for copying the music for that person. This is easily taken care of with some simple wording in your contract stating that original music for any slideshow must be provided by the client.

You appear to be saying that the bride and groom created their own slideshow from their own photographs and have hired someone to record music to it.

Maybe there are some audio recording studios out there doing such things. But that's not what a wedding photographer would does, so your point is irrelevant in this forum.

ContagiousIdea wrote:
teebat wrote:
I noticed the this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu1R6w1Mh90

uses lady Gaga music. So, can Fstoppers get in trouble for this? What about Youtube?

It would be nice to do something like this, but not if you get sued for it.

Youtuve regularly removes music from video's and the alternative is youtube bought music you can dub over it. However it is a non-server side removal, it has to be reported first.

I did notice that the video has that bar at the bottom if you want to purchase the music, maybe that is why it's ignored?? I have noticed commercial music on a lot of Youtube videos, some have been there for years.

I wonder has anyone had to pay because of this practice.

amonline wrote:
lisy78 wrote:
amonline,

I wish you were right, but you're not.

It probably *should* be the way you describe... or maybe it should be that way, plus maybe paying a reasonable yearly fee for the right to synchronize music.

But it's NOT the way you describe.

You would need a sync license to add music to a slideshow.

Um, not quite.

"Sync" licensing is for commercial re-broadcasting of copyrighted material. It is used for re-broadcasting audio with video in the entertainment industry. It's how an artist gets paid when their works are used in a movie, TV show, etc.

Again, the topic of using music in a wedding slideshow boils down to "personal use" and is completely legal as long as the bride/groom is the legal owner of the music being used. As long as the video is not sold, and is used for "personal use", there is no license needed. Legally, they cannot even show it on the internet.

But hey, what do I know... I only worked as a professional in the music industry half my life. I actually own several copyrights in the music industry. I can tell you that the LAST person I worry about copying my work to their video is a bride/groom.. or even a photographer. As a professional musician, I worry far more about those reproducing my work to RESELL. Ever heard of RIAA? They don't go after brides.

2 problems with what you're saying:

1. You could be wrong. not saying you are, but I've read a bit on this (links provided me by others here for instance) and I kinda lean towards you may be wrong (legally. Not in terms of people actually getting in trouble here... in terms of they COULD get in trouble)

2. More significantly the sentence "Legally, they cannot even show it on the internet" is the kiss of death for me. Frankly if I can't post it on facebook or my blog for other potential brides to see... I'd rather have the excuse that "I cannot do that without violating the artist' copyright" a slideshow done right is too much work compared to what I could sell it for to make it worth MY while (others may sell slideshows for $700 a pop... what do I know?) if I'm not getting the marketing benefit.

True, some artists will charge a premium for their work to be used (the finks!!!, oh, wait - look at my bank account...). And some are wiling to license their very popular music under strict terms for reasonable prices. With all the royalty free options, and the fact that you can contact licensing agents pretty easily I would think this issue could start being put to bed.

I've licensed popular music. It was easy. Stop complaining and start learning the system.

Also, people are saying that if you buy the CD or mp3 you "own" the music. This isn't technically true. What you have is a personal use license. Synchronization rights as in the case of slideshows for commercial use isn't the same thing. Sure, its easy as heck to get away with. But, I tend to think we should be supporting the idea of creative ownership and copyright protection rather than endorsing the circumventing of those laws.

- trr

TRReichman wrote:
True, some artists will charge a premium for their work to be used (the finks!!!, oh, wait - look at my bank account...). And some are wiling to license their very popular music under strict terms for reasonable prices. With all the royalty free options, and the fact that you can contact licensing agents pretty easily I would think this issue could start being put to bed.

I've licensed popular music. It was easy. Stop complaining and start learning the system.

Also, people are saying that if you buy the CD or mp3 you "own" the music. This isn't technically true. What you have is a personal use license. Synchronization rights as in the case of slideshows for commercial use isn't the same thing. Sure, its easy as heck to get away with. But, I tend to think we should be supporting the idea of creative ownership and copyright protection rather than endorsing the circumventing of those laws.

- trr


How did you license popular music? What songs and how much? I would really appreciate any information.

I wrote the artist in question and asked if I could use the music and was very specific about how I wanted to use it. They sent back terms and conditions of use. For example, some things I could use for free as long as I credited the artist and included certain links. Some things were going to cost money. Simple Simon.

As a note, I am not educated in these matters. I just picked up a phone/wrote an email and asked the relevant people about it. I recommend everyone else do the same and stop listening to forum hearsay.

- trr

I did notice that the video has that bar at the bottom if you want to purchase the music, maybe that is why it's ignored?? I have noticed commercial music on a lot of Youtube videos, some have been there for years.

I wonder has anyone had to pay because of this practice.

YouTube have an automatic content recognition system that matches audio and video content to a database of digital fingerprints (supplied by copyright owners). Copyright owners registered with the system have the choice of (a) blocking their content from appearing on YouTube, (b) leaving it be, but tracking views/hits or, (c) showing the content with merchandising links and taking a cut of the surrounding adverts. It's a very good system, meaning the copyright owners who choose to can benefit from the exposure on YouTube, rather than just blocking everything by default.