The kids seem to enjoy these. I would really like to figure out how to get better detail in the flames.

I also experimented with some alternative processing techniques using a combination of high pass (vivid light/color) filters and Imagonic's Protraiture

Originals:

1)

Mark Peters wrote:
The kids seem to enjoy these.


Really?

Yes - they ask for them

What's with the red light on the kid in the first two images?

Also, the kids look like they're trying to be as tough as possible, which comes off more as "I want to beat you up" rather than "I have confidence". They look tense. I think a more relaxed posture is called for.

I think that look is called "Game Face". It seems all the kids want that look.
When I was shooting for the locaL HS marching band the kids wanted that
kind of shot. It was tough getting them to smile for a picture that Mom would
like.

RWW


P.S. I like the flames. Gives the shot the "Smikin' Hot" look. Nice work!!!

I can see why the teens like these sessions! I think the kid in the first two pics has a better "game face" than the kid in #3. #3's eyes are just a bit too intense to make this expression look natural on him.

I also don't care for the red light coming in from the left side on #1 and #2.

FWIW, I think the processing on 4-6, while it looks cool on the flames, makes their skin look too smooth for guys, esp #4 and #6. In #5, there's a small orange flick near his head -- I'd clone that out.

I hope someone responds with ideas on the flames, because I'd love to learn how to get more definition out of them.

of course they're tense they're not used to holding burning things

I do a lot of fire performance, both as performer and photographer, and have an expanding portfolio of fire portraits, but my subjects are fire eaters and jugglers who are generally more comfortable with fire.



Is this the sort of flame detail you're after? Flames move fast, if you want to freeze them you have to use a fairly high shutter speed. 1/250 will usually do it, I then set my lights to (attempt to) get the person balanced with the flame. Not easy when they're moving around in a performance

I don't have any EXIF from your shots so can't see exactly what you've done

You might try something more orange than red to match up with the flame colours, (whatever you used on the hairlight has become green in the processed versions.....)
I used a 3/4 cto on the key for this one.

You've got the exposure on #2 and #3 but burnt the flames out on #1. I like the post processing, and I can imagine exactly why these photos are sought after
Nice niche you've got there

hopefully this is helpful.

Mark,
Very interesting thread, I like what you have done here re flames, I'll tag to see how to improve as requested.

Silvawispa,
Love the image posted! I had to look at your site - the 4th image in your fire gallery is superb, wow!

Stephanie

The red gel was a mistake - I had intended to get a red glow on the background for the drum stick shot, but ended up with spill on his face which I didn't catch until after he was gone - and the back ground didn't look right to boot - so I burned it down. On top of that, I forgot to remove it for the hockey shot.

I can't figure out why the hairlight is imparting a green tone to the hair - it was a bare 580ex II. He has a very red complexion with orange hair. I'm wondering now if I pulled magenta to get his skin less red and in doing so injected some unintended green?

Neither of these kids would smile - I would say 85 - 90% were tight lipped, if not outright scowling (furrowed brow and all). I tried joking with them to get them to lighten up. This was about as relaxed as I could get them.

Yes - that is the kind of detail I would like to get. I'll have to go back and check EXIF when I get home from work. I'm thinking it was around 1/160th.

I like the flames in #2 the best. I'm thinking that in #1, the stick end was too close to the main light. I'm thinking that I should have dialed it back, moved my left light closer to center and brought it up.

Mark Peters wrote:
Neither of these kids would smile - I would say 85 - 90% were tight lipped, if not outright scowling (furrowed brow and all). I tried joking with them to get them to lighten up. This was about as relaxed as I could get them.

I, personally, do not respond well to the tight-lipped scowling look. When I see such a picture, it makes me think they're a jerk or something. This is my personal reaction and I do not know if other people feel the same way, but this is the impression I got from these kids which has, unfortunately, colored my opinion of the photos.

As to the processing, it's way too much. There's haloing around all of the edges and the skin looks unnatural. Almost like a tone mapping filter has been applied.

who are we to question what the customer wants? Personally, I can't stnad flames painted on motorcycles or t-shirts with bald eagles on them. But damned if they aren't popular.

I found that only the boys wanted the tough look. Especially the football players. I would always have a hard time getting them to relax and smile. The look is ok when they're in uniform, but not in street clothes. Oh well.

A book I got on Senior portrait photography, people really hype those flames. I think they are cheesy, and won't do them. However, they use rubber cement on things like a club, or a bat.

I'm more than happy to do the 'tough guy' face, then I'll say, "...and now a smile for Mom." They've been told before the session that Moms want smiles, so we'll do some to show to friends and some for Mom. Haven't had a problem yet...

RobertLynn - it is cheesy. But these kids don't want to be there to begin with. Mom and Dad made them come, and there are 1,000 places they would rather be. So if there is something that they actually want done, that might keep them involved in the rest of the set, well rubber cement is cheap, and the print sells - and they show them to their friends who ask for them. Where's the downside?

Mark, nothing wrong with it it's just not a style I like. I hope you didn't take offense to me saying that.

I liken it to, I know that football players are athletes, but I don't really care for football. It's no disrespect to them.

No offense taken. I guess I just view it as, if it's not illegal/immmoral/unsafe or costs me money, if they ask for it I will shoot it.

I'm still searching for a way to get kids such as this more actively engaged, I view this as one way of trying to do that.

Mark Peters wrote:
these kids don't want to be there to begin with. Mom and Dad made them come, and there are 1,000 places they would rather be.



Ahhhh, not totally 100% accurate..

These two kids - 100% accurate.

I've found that guys would rather NOt be there and girls would RATHER be there.