Hi,

I’m planning to visit death valley national park during thanksgiving for about 1.5 days, for which I would like to get some advice from you. Ideally I’d like to choose some other time to visit the park, but unfortunately this is the best plan I’ve come up with so far.

My worry is the snow. Is most of the park going to be accessible if it snows? Do I need a 4WD or prepare for chains? What other equipment would I need if the weather goes bad there?

This is also the first time I’m going to the park, and I plan to cover most of these spots:
Artist Palette
Eureka Sand Dunes
Stovepipe Wells Dunes
The Racetrack
Sliding Rocks
Telescope Peak

Did I miss any?

Any other advice you could give in terms of photography in death valley during winter season would be appreciated!

;-)

Darrel

Telescope Peak, maybe, but the rest should be no problem. Check out the temps for every day of the year (averages and records):

http://www.nps.gov/deva/naturescience/upload/Daily%20Temperature%20Data.pdf

Actually, I would consider myself lucky if I were able to catch the park with snow.

Snow in DV? I don't think so.

Your list is undoable. You might be able to do just two of those locations in 1.5 days, which is way too short for any visit there. If you attempt to hike to Telescope Peak, you will need all your time for that. Same with the racetrack (which is where the sliding rocks are). Your best bet is a fun loop through the dunes, artist pallete, Badwater, Mosaic Canyon, and maybe some of the roadside stops like the cornfield.

Hey Darrel,

Snow would be pretty rare down on the flats. As Jeffrey suggests, that's quite a list of places. Have you sat down and plotted them out? The Racetrack will take about half of day at best. It's a good 2 to 3 hours to get into it, depending on where you are starting from. While the Racetrack can be driven in regular cars, I always feel better being in a 4wd. Not necessarily because 4wd is needed in there, but the higher clearance sure is nice.

I would knock Telescope Peak off the list, it's not worth it compared to how much else you won't do if you do that. It would take almost all of your time.

Now you did say you and 1.5 days, but you didn't say when that 1.5 days was gonna start... are you going to be there for sunrise on the first day?

I would suggest the following...

Sunrise - Badwater
Then loop through Artist Pallete and Mosaic Canyon
About 10am, no later then 11am head up to the Racetrack. Shoot there till sunset.
Sunrise 2nd day - Shoot Mesquite Dunes

I personally prefer to shoot the Dunes at sunset, as you can "See" your composition as the sun is setting. Too often for sunrises, you shoot the dunes, get your composition set up, but you can't hardly see the foreground, and come to discover that there had been a tourist stampede the day before right over the foreground you were shooting....

Jim

I wouldn't worry about Thanksgiving snow in DV. It is remotely possible (I've been snowed on, for example, at Scotty's Castle) but very unlikely. As someone pointed out, you could see some snow up high in the Panamint range. I suppose that in a very unusually cold storm you might get some snow on the higher passes as you approach the Valley.

Once in the Valley few of the places you mention are likely to be affected. A few comments follow:

Artist Palette - easy paved road at low elevations. No AWD needed and no snow for sure.

Eureka Sand Dunes - A very long and rough drive from the main part of Death Valley, may be better to approach from the North. A sturdy vehicle with good clearance and good tires is desirable.

Stovepipe Wells Dunes - A short walk from a paved highway and near a motel and campground. No worries. (Also known as "Death Valley Dunes" and, I think, "Mesquite Dunes.")

The Racetrack - A very long drive on one of the worst washboard roads you'll ever drive. NPS has advice on this road but my experience driving out there a number of times is that most people should a) drive slowly, b) use a vehicle with decent ground clearance, c) not worry too much about AWD if the weather/conditions are benign.

Sliding Rocks - The "sliding rocks" are at the Racetrack...

Telescope Peak - You cannot drive to Telescope Peak. You can drive up into the Wild Rose Canyon area to approach it. The road gets worse as you climb, and eventually you have to park and hike to the summit. It isn't a short hike and the elevation is pretty high.

Did I miss any?

Badwater, Zabriskie Point, Scotty's Castle, Dantes View, Titus Canyon, Rhyolite, Twenty Mule Canyon, etc...

Any other advice you could give in terms of photography in death valley during winter season would be appreciated!

Given the "did I miss any?" question and your already long and geographically diverse list... Death Valley is a huge place and the drives between many of these locations are very long both in distance and (especially with the gravel roads) time. There is no way in the world that you would do all of these on a 1.5 day trip, at least not if you plan to get to them at good photography times and have any time to actually make photographs.

If this is your first visit and time is really that limited... I suggest doing a bit of triage on your list and whittling it down to more manageable goals.

First, on a first visit and with only a day and a half, if you try to visit a place like the Racetrack and/or Eureka Dunes that requires a very long drive on awful roads you will have little if any time left over to see anything else. (When I go to the Racetrack I generally head out that way starting right after lunch, shoot afternoon and evening, stay overnight (and do full-moon night photography if possible), get up before dawn and shoot early in the morning, and finally drive out, getting to Scotty's Castle around noon the next day.) If you want to make the entire focus of your trip a visit to one of these, fine - otherwise I think you might find an alternative more productive.

Generally I can to one major shoot in the morning and one in the evening. I might get a secondary shoot in during the morning and again in the evening if I plan carefully - picking a location that works at slightly non-optimal light times and which is not too far away from the primary spot. For example, I might shoot Zabriskie Point (if conditions are above average to stunning) from before dawn until slightly after. Then I might try to shoot in a canyon where later light is still good. I'll follow a similar plan in the evening.

A sample 1.5 day itinerary could be something like:

1. Dawn at Zabriskie Point.
2. Golden Canyon, Marble Canyon, or similar in the morning.
3. Take the Scotty's Castle tour during the day.
4. Shoot another canyon in the late afternoon. (Or, instead of 3 and 4, drive through TItus Canyon - rough road warning! - and emerge in the mid- to late-afternoon.
5. Shoot an evening subject like the salt flats just south of Badwater.

Day 2:
1. Shoot Death Valley Dunes (near Stovepipe) at dawn.
2. Shoot one more canyon - Marble Canyon is nearby.

This list isn't meant to be definitive, but rather to be an example of an approach that might work for photography.

Dan

The others have given good advice on creating a workable itinerary. Death Valley is the largest National Park in the lower 48 and trying to cover it in one day is not a workable plan.

The only comment that I would have on Dan's itinerary is his suggestion that you drive through Titus Canyon (#4). This is a one-way rough road that starts outside the park not far from Rhyolite. Just getting to the start of the one-lane dirt road will take quite a lot of time that I wouldn't spend given your time constraints. It's a really nice drive but save it for another day.

Wow thank you guys! Those were exactly what I needed! And Dan, thanks especially for your detailed itinerary. Give me some time to go through these, and hopefully I'll report back what I'll have soon.

DonH wrote:
The others have given good advice on creating a workable itinerary. Death Valley is the largest National Park in the lower 48 and trying to cover it in one day is not a workable plan.

The only comment that I would have on Dan's itinerary is his suggestion that you drive through Titus Canyon (#4). This is a one-way rough road that starts outside the park not far from Rhyolite. Just getting to the start of the one-lane dirt road will take quite a lot of time that I wouldn't spend given your time constraints. It's a really nice drive but save it for another day.

I'll sort of second that - I'm not necessarily sure that I'd recommend Titus for a first-time visitor on a tight time schedule. When I do Titus I often begin my day well before dawn at Rhyolite, visit Beatty for breakfast and gasoline after this shoot, and then start the long road but spectacular (and somewhat challenging) road through Titus so that I'll get back to the Valley by sometime in the afternoon, with plans to then shoot at least one more subject late in the day.

However, I'd probably put closer and more certain subjects like Zabriskie Point and Death Valley Dunes ahead of this area for the short visit.

Dan

Alright, I'm back with a revised, more modest itinerary, with a few questions.

Day 1, drive into the park from Vegas (via CA 190), to Artists Palette, Badwater, stay at the saltwater flat to shoot sunset. Unfortunately I don't think I can do sunrise on the first day due to the driving, but I'm talking quality vs. quantity here

Day 2, Zabriskie Point for sunrise, north on Scotty's Castle to Stovepipe Wells to shoot the dunes around there, stay for sunset.

Does it seem doable? I'm hoping I can stay at Furnace Creek Ranch because it's so close to Zabriskie Point.

Now, the questions:

1) How easily accessible Zabriskie Point is? Looking at the map it seems it's just by the road. (http://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/upload/DEVAmap1a.pdf)

2) It seems I'll do fine without an AWD based on outlined above?

Well, it's a small portion of the park yes, but I'm hoping I'll enjoy every bit of it

Thank you!

Darrel

Zabriskie point has a parking lot and short trail to the vista point. It's really "just off the road." But nice nonetheless!

Your new plan should be easily accomplished. Have fun!

Tim

Possible refinements / suggestions.

Is there ANY chance you can stretch the trip another day? As is, you'll spend more time in the car than out. DV is huge and diverse. It's hard to get any meaningful impression in just a day.

If you find some extra time on the first evening, consider taking 178 from Shoshone into DV. It's almost an hour out of the way, but is, IMO, much more scenic. You'll drive across the colorful formations in southern Black Mountains. Take the Old Spanish Trail road from 160 south of Pahrump to Tecopa. North to Shoshone, then west on 178.

After all the driving, a good hike will be most welcome! If you're strong hikers (round trip!), or can arrange with another group of photographers to leave a shuttle car, the early morning hike from Zabriskie down into Golden Canyon is wonderful. Pretty light, constantly changing geography and geology. The trail goes right along the base of Manley Beacon and offers good views of the Red Cathedral cliffs to the north. The direct distance is about 2 miles one way, but wandering among all the hills and gullies will add another mile or so. The trails through the badlands are somewhat confusing and poorly signed, so some preparation is in order. Bring a good map and GPS receiver.
See
http://www.protrails.com/trail.php?trailID=290
and
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&t=p&ll=36.421559,-116.830072&spn=0.035431,0.087891&z=14


You might consider hanging out at the Stovepipe Dunes after dark. The moon will be up high in the east and should provide enough light for some cool/eerie long-exposure photography.

Scotty's Castle is a long ways out of the way. Unless you're real keen to see it, I'd look for something closer to Furnace Creek. Mosaic Canyon is pretty cool and is just a few miles from Stovepipe. The road to Mosaic is gravel, but easily traversable in any road worthy vehicle. (If you had a little more time, I'd suggest Grotto or Marble Canyons, or Skidoo, the Charcoal Kilns, or other destinations in the Panamint Mountains.)

No matter how much time you have, I suggest that you immediately beg, borrow or buy a copy of the book, "Hiking Death Valley," by M. Digonnet. It's 550 pages of awsomeness! Zillions of detailed trail guides, pictures, area history, geology, biology, etc. http://www.amazon.com/Hiking-Death-Valley-Natural-Wonders/dp/0965917800/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257565306&sr=8-1

Enjoy!

Didn't I already answer this question on the e-mail list at work?

Given your short time frame I would say catch a sunrise at Zabriskie and visit the Stovepipe Dunes at sunrise or sunset at least once.

Yes you did, thanks Ron

coscorrosa wrote:
Didn't I already answer this question on the e-mail list at work?

Given your short time frame I would say catch a sunrise at Zabriskie and visit the Stovepipe Dunes at sunrise or sunset at least once.

I'm back!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/darrelliu/sets/72157622989005890/detail/

I enjoyed every bit of it. In addition to my trip plan, we went to the racetrack eventually on the second day. The road was pretty bad, but it didn't take as long as we were told.

Thanks everyone for their advice!

Looks like you caught some great conditions. Wonderful collections of images.

Cheers,
Ed

Nice set of pictures you've got there.

Vary nice set of images of a place that is rapidly becoming one of my favourites