Just picked up a 5DII and I'm having my first experiences with Live View shooting. I'm pretty blown away, especially with the Exposure Simulation setting. I'd say around 90% of what I shoot is carefully composed, many times on a tripod, so I see myself using this mode nearly all the time.

I feel like Live View + Exp. Simulation is going to totally change the way I work with the camera. On the one hand, getting a proper exposure is cake now. Anyone can do it with ~30 minutes training. This is really making composition/intent behind a photo massively important as proper exposure is almost a given with these cameras.

Thoughts?

Proper exposure is easy if the dynamic range of the scene nicely fits into the dynamic range of the sensor.

Proper exposure becomes not so trivial if it does not.

Kaa

Live View is a huge boost for composition especially when the camera is in a position that makes it hard to use the view finder.

Exposure simulation I'm not as sold on because the brightness setting of the LCD during liveview makes a difference. I don't remember, does the 5 allow you to see a live histogram during liveview? I would have much more faith in that than in the exposure simulation.

I love LiveView but have never paid much attention to exposure simulation because I typically use a hand-held incident meter. But I'll take a look, now that you mention it.

I like LV for composing and focusing. Sometimes when close in, I'll focus without LV and they turn it on 10x and check my focus. I find LV almost always improves focusing.

The other thing I like about it is focusing at night or with heavy ND filters. It's like a night vision scope. Really helpful.

Some have said LV really sucks battery charge, but I've found it surprising good on battery life.

The one thing I wish for is that Canon add more gridline options. I shoot in 4x5 and square proportions a lot, and would love to have gridline overlays for those ratios.

John

My camera previous to my 20D was a Minolta D7Hi with an EVF which read off the sensor in real time. That gives a camera the ability to detect over and under exposure down to the pixel level in real time. For that reason many P&S cameras with LCD viewfinders do a better job at automatic exposure than a DSLR.

At some point Canon removable lens cameras will have EVF and I suspect Live View is a form of EVF "training wheels" for SLR user who can't imagine life without an optical viewfinder. But lose the pentaprism and flopping mirror and say good-bye to the x-sync limit, the 8 fps shooting limit, and most exposure woes resulting from doing the metering off the viewfinder before the actual exposure.

There are two definitions of "correct", "proper", or "optimal" exposure: technical and perceptual

The technical one is when the camera is able to reproduce the full range of scene with detail. That is possible with a wide range of scenes with B&W because the negative range can be changed to to compensate for scene range (i.e. zone system) or different paper contrast grades selected to match changing negative ranges (multi-contrast paper). Color emulsion contrast can't be altered in that way to fit the scene, either can digital.

What photographers started to do after the introduction of color film is to expose PERCEPTUALLY based on the midtones such as skin. If the scene range exceeded the contrast range of the print paper (the limiting factor) the photographer would aim for the middle and get it right and allow the ends to clip. But over time the new "correct" exposure came to be whenever what was most important was correctly exposed. That works when the areas clipped are insignificant, so photographers also learned to compose shots in ways to make the clipping less noticeable.

Thus its possible to have a photo which is correctly exposed in the perceptual sense, but not in the technical sense of having detail everywhere as in B&W.

Indoors in the studio the difference wasn't noticed much because lighting was used to fit the scene to the film. Even with digital if we start in a totally dark room and first add even fill to the point dark detail is revealed...

KaaX wrote:
Proper exposure is easy if the dynamic range of the scene nicely fits into the dynamic range of the sensor.

Proper exposure becomes not so trivial if it does not.

Kaa


But it's always been that way. How you deal with that is one of the things that defines how good you are.

I love live view, didn't think I would but I do, very useful for precise focusing

David

I've played with LV quite a bit since getting my 7D. I didn't think I would use it but I can see how it would be really useful. I haven't even begun to use the different features associated with LV. I have a lot to learn, it seems...

Andy

I've really started to appreciate how good Live View is. Exposure simulation plus the live histogram is brilliant. It means it's one less thing to worry about when composing a shot which Live View is also so great for. It's also saved me getting my head in the mud a couple of times when hiking and the bug I want a photo of is hiding under a rock!

Live View is also brilliant for focusing, but it needs a compliant subject, something that holds still.

Cheers,
James.

Just picked up a 5DII and I'm having my first experiences with Live View shooting. I'm pretty blown away, especially with the Exposure Simulation setting. I'd say around 90% of what I shoot is carefully composed, many times on a tripod, so I see myself using this mode nearly all the time.

I feel like Live View + Exp. Simulation is going to totally change the way I work with the camera. On the one hand, getting a proper exposure is cake now. Anyone can do it with ~30 minutes training. This is really making composition/intent behind a photo massively important as proper exposure is almost a given with these cameras.

Thoughts?

Get out of my head! Stop reading my mind!

I bought the 5D2 for the resolution--Live View was totally unexpected blessing for my tripod work. I had considered Live View a gimmick, and in prior incarnations it perhaps was originally.

But in the 5D2, it's brought back my days of working with a medium or large format groundglass and looking at the picture instead of "peerin' through a tiny 'ole." And--wonder of wonders--for the first time depth of field preview is actually useful even at the smaller stops where it's most needed. This is even better than a groundglass.

The "digital loupe" is wonderful to use. I may pull out my old weighted focusing cloth, but then again, Live View allows me to wear a wide-brimmed hat without it getting in the way with verticals.

I have found exposure simulation extremely accurate, although it presents an image of slightly shorter dynamic range than the raw data collects. That is an "anti-problem"--it's pretty easy to allow for more dynamic range being collected than shown. At worse, it definitely gives you a clue when you've somehow mis-set the controls.

where is the "Exposure Simulation setting"?

given the stingy cluster of AF points canon gave us on the 5D2, i welcome the ability to choose anywhere i wish one the "viewfinder" and do fine focusing there. cheers

Does the sensor warm up much using LV? A cool sensor definitely helps keep noise down, I wonder if waiting 30 seconds after using LV before taking the shot would be a good idea for landscapes.

Drew_Persson wrote:
Does the sensor warm up much using LV? A cool sensor definitely helps keep noise down, I wonder if waiting 30 seconds after using LV before taking the shot would be a good idea for landscapes.


Not in my experience unless you have it on for really long. If it's just to compose and focus then, no, on ordinary days on the eastern seaboard it doesn't get too hot.

In my 40D Manual (which I just happened to have on screen) it says:

Cautions for prolonged use:
When you shoot continuously for a prolonged perios or use Live View for a long period, the camera may become hot. Although this is not a malfunction, holding the hot camera for a long period can cause slight skin burns

!!

So yes, it gets hot!

dhphoto wrote:
In my 40D Manual (which I just happened to have on screen) it says:

Cautions for prolonged use:
When you shoot continuously for a prolonged perios or use Live View for a long period, the camera may become hot. Although this is not a malfunction, holding the hot camera for a long period can cause slight skin burns

!!

So yes, it gets hot!

This has raised an eyebrow. Let's see. Skin burns at 130F--that would be when the exterior of the camera reaches 130F...the sensor becoming so hot that it has heated the magnesium, the rubber, the LCD cover, et cetera, to 130F.

And it's still operating?

Sensor noise is affected by temperature of the sensor, so that, not second degree burns, would be my primary concern

RDKirk wrote:

This has raised an eyebrow. Let's see. Skin burns at 130F--that would be when the exterior of the camera reaches 130F...the sensor becoming so hot that it has heated the magnesium, the rubber, the LCD cover, et cetera, to 130F.

And it's still operating?


Well I expect that it's just the typical disclaimer (I hope )

But clearly Canon feel it gets warm enough to put a warning in the manual

cgardner wrote:
Sensor noise is affected by temperature of the sensor, so that, not second degree burns, would be my primary concern

I wonder if this also applies to CMOS, is your comment based on experience? Not that I doubt it BTW! I know this is true for CCD

There's no question sensor noise is affected by temperature I've seen it myself. It's well known which is why we are advised to use liveview sparingly or at least not have it on for extended periods

I think Live View is a brilliant function.
The best use I got of it was setting up for a star trail shot. I couldn't see a thing in the VF, but LV allowed me to compose, and even focus the lens before taking the shot.