All of your states together is still smaller than Europe

At the risk of unnecessarily belaboring the off-topic point, Alaska alone is perhaps bigger than Europe. Not that it matters one wit.

Sadly the Uk government has destroyed our economic stability, we are in massive public debt here, and the currency markets are responding appropriately. Hopefully this incompetent Labour government will be terminated in next year's elections and we can start to rebuild our debased economy again.

Till then, we will pay through the nose for our Canon kit!

Fidelity wrote:
All of your states together is still smaller than Europe

At the risk of unnecessarily belaboring the off-topic point, Alaska alone is perhaps bigger than Europe. Not that it matters one wit.

You must be joking Even Canada that is huge compared to Alaska is smaller than Europe

FredM wrote:
... for the american people: ask yourself if you would pay: 7500$ for this camera...

Much better question would be: why do YOU pay $7,500? As long as you are willing to pay that much, Canon (and others) will only be happy to charge you that (and more)... So, if you do not like the price, do not buy it... end of story.

So the conclusion: Canon makes a lot of money on the backs of the UK and European citizens


Isn't that what companies exist for? Making money, that is... the more, the better (also known as profit maximization). So, what exactly is your point?

Lars Johnsson:
You must be joking Even Canada that is huge compared to Alaska is smaller than Europe

I think that some may not realize that Europe ends (Eastern "border") at Ural Mountains
Countries considered to be Eastern Europe are really Central Europe.

Oddly enough, the Nikon threads don't ever quite get this far....

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/778942

sirimiri:
Oddly enough, the Nikon threads don't ever quite get this far....

They may not include lessons in Geography

Have we determined why the prices are different?

How much do the Japanese themselves pay? How about Hong Kong?

Do lenses have the same cost inequity?

Is there a cost of doing business in Europe (definition: a continent of independent countries far larger than Alaska), such as a levy tax or import tax, etc. that would inflate costs?

Does the fact that Europe (definition: a distant land across that ocean that the Titanic sunk in) has so many languages and cultures make it more difficult to make use of economies of scale from a marketing/customer service perspective?

Ok as Lars asked and others are interested here's the link
http://www.fotorembrandt.be/N_frame.html?http://www.fotorembrandt.be/

Extra info:Copy paste the link and it works !!

Surf to Canon >Canon Reflex >second page at the bottom body only at € 3999
And I confirmed this prize as I already ordered one, it is one/or the lowest price in Belgium

I think Titanic sank closer to Canada. By the way, you can see where Europe ends in Iceland. The plates are pulling apart. As soon as you crosss over the gulch, Canon prices skyrocket.

python2000 wrote:
Have we determined why the prices are different?


Nope. But if you consider strongly differing models of taxation and social system, you will probably cover a large part of the difference.


Do lenses have the same cost inequity?


Yes. Perhaps not the same % inequality, but there are major price differences.


Is there a cost of doing business in Europe (definition: a continent of independent countries far larger than Alaska), such as a levy tax or import tax, etc. that would inflate costs?


Aside from the import taxation, there are probably some additional costs associated with marketing in the different languages, but in many countries English is widely spoken so you don't lose too many sales if you are a small to medium sized company and you keep everything in English for markets outside France, Germany and Italy. These three require translation as they are large markets and are culturally proud (especially France). All have surprisingly large numbers of non-english speakers, though are catching up now. Canon translate for all markets i think.

Also "Europe" obviously does not have a homogeneous shop/distribution infrastructure. Different models apply in different countries. This undoubtedly adds to cost, but as many of the markets are large anyway, the relative economy of scale loss is not so big i think.

Now the import thing. This bit can become a little confusing as, from an economic perspective, Europe comprises a number of "clubs". The central club is the Eurozone, where a single currency is used. Moving stuff around within the eurozone is very easy. Outside of that (but encompassing it) is the European Union and for countries which don't want full EU membership there is the Extended Economic Area (EEA). Cost of transportation across EU borders is higher than for Eurozone i think. Moving stuff into EEA countries can be very expensive for some products.


Does the fact that Europe (definition: a distant land across that ocean that the Titanic sunk in) has so many languages and cultures make it more difficult to make use of economies of scale from a marketing/customer service perspective?


In short, "Yes". But it is probably less than you would think as the Eurozone/EU/EEA malarky makes borders more porous than it might seem from my comments above. At the end of it though, we return to the beginning - many of the costs (the taxation and staff overheads) exist to fund the social systems adopted by the country in question. And so what you pay for your camera will indirectly reflect the level of healthcare and public services that you receive.

halie wrote:
I think Titanic sank closer to Canada. By the way, you can see where Europe ends in Iceland. The plates are pulling apart. As soon as you crosss over the gulch, Canon prices skyrocket.

If only Snorri Thorfinnsson could see us now. Legend has it that his parents were searching for cheaper gear.

Fidelity wrote:
At the risk of unnecessarily belaboring the off-topic point, Alaska alone is perhaps bigger than Europe.

Perhaps on a Mercator Projection map, but not in reality.

mfurman wrote:
sirimiri:
Oddly enough, the Nikon threads don't ever quite get this far....

They may not include lessons in Geography

So the conclusion: Canon makes a lot of money on the backs of the UK and European citizens


More like your governments make money on the backs of your citizens.

Find a few people who want them and I'll make a trip over and bring them with me.

Not sure if this was posted, but here's confirmation about what Canon has been doing (as if we didn't know with all the price increases) as well as more bad news for US (and possibly others) customers...

From Canon a few days ago...

"Despite the decrease in sales,' the company said: 'third-quarter operating profit for the sector increased by 5.5% to ¥47.6 billion (U.S.$529 million), owing to the increased sales ratio of high-value-added products and the positive effects of cuts in operating expenses.'

This part is mostly BS.. The reality is that They've increased prices more than enough to cover any currency exchange fluctuations (see below), decreased sales, and other disruptions. How did they cut costs? Eliminate the QA department?

Although it also says it expects the Yen to strengthen further against the US Dollar, the company's camera division increased its whole-year forecasts for both sales and operating profit. 'The company's fundamentals are improved - the mid range and high-end DSLR sales have started to pick up. Both Nikon and Canon are seeing increases in shipments and profitability,' said Hisashi Moriyama, an equities analyst at J.P. Morgan.

'Within the cameras segment, the high-resolution, competitively priced EOS Digital Rebel T1i (EOS 500D) and advanced-amateur model EOS 5D Mark II digital SLR cameras continued to enjoy robust sales during the quarter, contributing to growth in sales volume.' the company said: 'while demand for digital single-lens reflex (SLR) cameras displayed solid growth, demand for compact digital cameras remained sluggish amid continued price declines.'


And yet people continue thinking these things are expensive to make.. In a pig's eye...

See below...

'From a profitability point of view DSLR business would be much better - there are only five or six companies and the competitive conditions are not so tough and DSLR is still less than 10% of the market sales and it has a lot of lens assets.'

Anyone that thinks Canon is ever worried about Nikon/Sony, or their "profits" is frankly, nuts... These companies are making money hand over fist on the DSLRs and lenses. They'd be profitable without the gouging, but hey, when there's no one to prevent you from gouging, then why not do it?

A $5k US 1D4 is bad enough (probably cost around $1k to build, if that) so I feel sorry for those in the UK.. Unfortunately, Nikon is even greedier so there's not much you can do except not buy...

Well remember that digital SLR's from the USA are fine except the warranty is NOT valid in the UK & Europe, I have looked into this extensively with plenty of calls to Canon UK, so you guys in the UK & Europe need this:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/830216

I have a spare one on order

Martin

These companies are in a business to make a profit, so what is the big deal.

If people are that concerned they should be carrying picket signs at there local fast food place or bar. Soft drinks cost around $0.03 cents to pour and are commonly sold for more than $1.00. Beer has shallower margins at only 300+%.

jerrykur wrote:
These companies are in a business to make a profit, so what is the big deal.

If people are that concerned they should be carrying picket signs at there local fast food place or bar. Soft drinks cost around $0.03 cents to pour and are commonly sold for more than $1.00. Beer has shallower margins at only 300+%.



no one has ever said they shouldn't make a profit. it's important for all "good" companies to keep the doors open (it's the bad ones like GM that should have gone away), but that's a different topic.

What gets tiring is all the hand wringing about "poor Canon", they're afraid of Nikon/Sony/the boogie man. They're not worried about any competition - from their own words. They're not affected by slowing economies. Their certainly not negatively affected by economies of scale. I doubt a 1 series camera has cost over $1k to make in years, but the price is going north, not south.

I don't think anyone is happy with the price hikes, or the sometimes needless markups. I even tried rationalizing their price hike on the 1D4. In truth there isn't any justification from a technical or manufacturing perspective. Canon, and others, can charge whatever they like and if it causes enough people to stop buying, they'll just charge more. It's pretty simple. I can't say I like it, and I know those in the UK don't, but as I asked, what are you going to do?

The more astute will see from their press release that they're planing on raising prices again in the US (yen vs US donuts or whatever our crap currency is called these days). Anyone that thinks these things are expensive to make though, is as I said, just nuts...

jamesf99 wrote:
A $5k US 1D4 is bad enough (probably cost around $1k to build, if that) so I feel sorry for those in the UK.. Unfortunately, Nikon is even greedier so there's not much you can do except not buy...

James, James, James......
How many times do you need to be reminded of a simple fact that FF imaging sensors are extremely expensive to make

What, Mk IV is not an FF CMOS based camera ? Oh well, that all comes out in the wash.

Seriously, I reckon the total cost of a MkIV unit, fully burdened with all overheads, engineering costs etc., in projected sales volume, is perhaps around $300-400, if that.