My question is in the title, but to expand for those unfamiliar with the acronyms, NAS is Network attached Storage and WHS is Windows Home Server. (let's not debate what is and what is not an "acronym".

I recentely had a NAS failure (and lost some data) so I'm looking for new solutions.

I need (would like) to store at least *(will only get larger)

1) 400-500GB of photos
2) 100GB of video
3) 400GB+ of "other"....


Has anyone found something they particularly like that has/can provide the following:

1) relatively fast (subjective I know, but if it can stream data, then...)
2) easy to maintain
3) provides the option for RAID 1 and/or JBOD?
4) Bonus points*** efficient (from a power usage perspective)

I'm going nuts right now trying to keep all the PCs backed up, up to date, etc. and would like something to take over some of the work load. I really don't want to be a full time network admin....

Problems I see right now with current NAS offerings is that most are dumb, slow, out of date from a software/firmware and technology (only support SATA 1) perspective. These issues (anachronisms really) are sometimes severe and NAS may really be "yesterdays technology".

WHS are newer, but they're not cheap, do require admin, and the only real options I've found are from HP and Acer. I'm not saying anything bad about either vendor, but it's a limited field.

I don't know much about other options such as a Drobo, but those seem like fish out of water to me right now. Expensive, yet they don't do much. Are there benefits that I'm missing?

I realize this is technical stuff not everyone knows about, but most will need to know as their storage needs increase with photos and videos from the newer cameras. We're all going to be facing new problems.

If you have such tiny storage needs, just host the files on one computer and network it to the others. Get an external backup drive and synch software. Rotating data offsite is a good idea as well.

EBH

EB-1 wrote:
If you have such tiny storage needs, just host the files on one computer and network it to the others. Get an external backup drive and synch software. Rotating data offsite is a good idea as well.

EBH


Thanks.

While storing 1TB may seem "tiny" to you, it's actually far more than most households deal with. My actualy home needs are far greater, with most computers running multiple drives (1TB+), some in RAID, some not. I listed a few things to set the stage, meaning about half photos and half video/other. This is mostly fun stuff, some customer web sites (after all, html, js, etc are tiny files, but they are "hosted" and fully/redundantly backed up), and miscellaneous stuff that accumulates. I also need to make it easier on a certain person that doesn't back up as much as she should and I'm tired of nagging.

BTW - This is not my "studio" solution where I have multi-TB storage with approximately 10 rotating drives. All files are backup 2 to 3 times with both on-site and off-site storage. The off-site storage will soon expand to a second location as well.

Mostly agree w/ EBH. NAS's are dumb. they speak NFS, AFP or SMB/CIFS. Get a decent one and they quite good but you can be limited by network throughput etc. How 'smart' do you want them to be? Yesterday's technology? Sure, but then again, so is Windows and it's networking technology.

You could easily get a 2 disk JBOD/RAID1 device, attach to a good PC via ESATA and share it also.

you might want to give these guys a ring: eaegis.com

howardm4 wrote:
Mostly agree w/ EBH. NAS's are dumb. they speak NFS, AFP or SMB/CIFS. Get a decent one and they quite good but you can be limited by network throughput etc. How 'smart' do you want them to be? Yesterday's technology? Sure, but then again, so is Windows and it's networking technology.

You could easily get a 2 disk JBOD/RAID1 device, attach to a good PC via ESATA and share it also.

you might want to give these guys a ring: eaegis.com


Thanks. I think it was me that said NAS is/are/was "dumb".

've been running NAS drives for many years, so I know about some of the issues. Speed can be one, but there are many others. I'm dumb founded that in 2009 - almost 2010 - most are saying they support SATA 1 (vs SATA 2), there's no mention of 64bit support (time to get real as it's coming/here) and the streaming options are less than good on many. Firmware is locked in with no way to update it. Buying today means you're buying 2006/7 technology for the most part...

There are several NAS options that I've considered (and still am) but I decided that I'd expand my options to include the newer "media server" options, including those running WHS. I may be mistaken because I really just began looking today, but the new WHS seems to offer better power options, less hassle on the admin, etc.

There are a few concerns with using a regular stand alone "server", one of which is the monitoring, and then there's the server software, the constant "on state" etc. Attaching an external drive (e-sata or USB) to a PC on the network is less than optimal IMO. I didn't make a big deal of it, but the more I think about it, I really want something that can cycle down on the power drain when not serving/backing up. I want to get "greener".

Thanks for the link. Looks like an interesting site with lots of options.

I currently use a DROBO for my main storage. Expandable. Currently I have it fitted with 4x1TB drives. I use sync software to duplicate my images to a NAS storage. I have not had any problems with it for a couple of years now. I am using a Mac but it works fine with either system. A friend of mine, another photographer swears by the DROBO. Just another option to consider.

I know the DROBO is proprietary but if there are issues, you do have a support team to help.

Drobo's are no less proprietary than a RAID or a NAS. you can't move a drive or set of drives to anything else and expect it to work unless it is at least from the same vendor and usually even the same model.

Herb...

Drobos are like all NAS from a proprietary software perspective. this is one thing that is keeping me on the fence for some of these things.

I honestly don't know why all these companies insist on writing their own Unix/Linux proprietary code/data storage algorithms and storing data in some funky way. It has been a long time for me, but I guess they're just creating a hash table or something.

seriously. We're talking about data storage for the most part. I know there are communication protocols between the drives, the "case", the client software (if present) so writing code for that is fine, but why can't these guys store data in a consistent form?

I'm assuming that a WHS will store data in a "readable" fashion, and by readable, I mean pull the drive out and put it in a "Blacx box" (or similar) or external case, hook it up, and see what you have...

almost all of the small NASs store data in 'standard' filesystems like ext{2,3}, xfs, etc etc.

If your research indicates that a vendor of interest is proprietary, then they fall off your short list. Ditto on other features until you get down to a list of 2-3 vendors or product lines that fit your needs.

I'm pretty sure the QNAP 409 I have uses ext3 and Thecus units use xfs.

Most units will spin down the drives so if 'green' is an issue, look at that but that IMO is mostly a red herring issue.

howardm4 wrote:
almost all of the small NASs store data in 'standard' filesystems like ext{2,3}, xfs, etc etc.

If your research indicates that a vendor of interest is proprietary, then they fall off your short list. Ditto on other features until you get down to a list of 2-3 vendors or product lines that fit your needs.

I'm pretty sure the QNAP 409 I have uses ext3 and Thecus units use xfs.

Most units will spin down the drives so if 'green' is an issue, look at that but that IMO is mostly a red herring issue.


Thanks Howard. My last few NAS drives definitely used non-standard linux.

there really is something to say for removing the drive and reading it off any windows pc.

Why do you think the green nature is a red herring? Even some of the drives that purportedly do spin down the drives, it doesn't work that well according to several of the reviews I've found. Would like to hear more if you've found some satisfactory units.

thanks, J-

Um, why can't you buy a full-tower PC, install Linux/BSD on it, and then stuff it full of drives? It will work as a NAS, but it's fully customizable, configurable, and needs very little administration once set up. And no funky proprietary filesystems, too.

No personal experience, but I would be wary of the WHS.

Kaa

James, i think it's a red herring because the # of watts you're going to save isn't going to amount to a hill of beans over it's lifetime. Any one of a million home appliances that are knowingly or unknowingly in 'standby' will consume more power.

I haven't measured the power draw of my QNAP but it reliably spins up/down the drives as required.

I absolutely agree w/ your sentiment about being able to remove the drive and be able to mount it on another machine (although my last choice would be a PC since it can barely read FAT/NTFS much less anything else of interest. you'd want a Linux PC for starters)

KaaX wrote:
Um, why can't you buy a full-tower PC, install Linux/BSD on it, and then stuff it full of drives? It will work as a NAS, but it's fully customizable, configurable, and needs very little administration once set up. And no funky proprietary filesystems, too.

No personal experience, but I would be wary of the WHS.

Kaa


Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not looking for a large server/tower that consumes lots of space. this is for my home office, it needs to be compact (as most NAS/WHS are) and not too unattractive, and probably fit on top of a file cabinet..

I realize I didn't specify all that, but right now I'd say a server/tower meets none of those criteria.

howardm4 wrote:
James, i think it's a red herring because the # of watts you're going to save isn't going to amount to a hill of beans over it's lifetime. Any one of a million home appliances that are knowingly or unknowingly in 'standby' will consume more power.

I haven't measured the power draw of my QNAP but it reliably spins up/down the drives as required.

I absolutely agree w/ your sentiment about being able to remove the drive and be able to mount it on another machine (although my last choice would be a PC since it can barely read FAT/NTFS much less anything else of interest. you'd want a Linux PC for starters)


Sounds valid. I'm always trying to cut down on power though. not only have the rates gone through the roof lately, but I think it helps us all in the long run.

Do you have a suggestion for a 2-bay QNAP solution? I don't want this to be too large, so a dual drive (probably RAID 1 scenario) should be fine.

QNAP only has the 209 model. give those guys a call. they are *very* helpful and are totally great to do business with (I am not associated, just a customer)

it's the age-old question. Personally I would only ever use a NAS or WHS if it included RAID mirroring and I backed up to an external, separate drive.

Personally I use a netgear NAS with RAID mirroring backed up once a week to an external drive. Triple redundancy on a gigabit network and I've never had a problem. Yes, the RAID is a proprietary file format, but the external backup is not.

I've been using the WHS Server for my storage and back-up needs and have been very happy with it's operation.

Key features for me:
- It backs up all the computers on my network on a regular basis, usually overnight or at a time you select on up to 10 computers. (need to be NTFS file system I believe) I just leave on or turn on computers overnight and they are backed up.
- Small footprint (I have Acer version), no need for monitor, keyboard, etc. can access and control from any computer on network. Mine is on a file cabinet with an older HP media Server.
- Selective file redundancy (RAID) on separate drives.
- Expandable (on mine) 4 internal SATA drive bays, 5 external USB ports, 1 eSATA port. Right now I have 3TB of storage and I still have 2 internal drives open and 4 USB ports available, plus eSATA port.
- Can create multiple users and directories on server for protected storage of files and restrict access.
- Ability to remotely access files on Server from the Internet and can also remotely control PC's from the Internet if running certain versions of Windows.
- Backups seem to be fast and efficient due to the VSS file backup it uses, I allow mine to backup between 2am and 7am. Regularly used computers get backed-up nightly if left on and others when I turn or leave them on. Will wake computers on standby for backup.
- Price was moderate, $399 for unit with 1TB drive, $100 or so for a 1.5TB internal drive plus an older USB 750GB drive I probably paid $125 for some time ago.

When I import to Lightroom I save one copy to local or external drive on workstation computer, save back-up copy to WHS Server. My workstation is being backed up nightly and the image files stored on the WHS are duplicated on a separate drive on the WHS as well. Still save important files on DVD in firebox as well.

Once set-up, I have spent minimal time maintaining network now although I have tweaked some things as I have learned.

Wiki with General Overview of WHS

Can buy it here $399, video review

qnap makes great solid small non-power hungry devices. IMHO that is the way to go.

I absolutely swear by my WHS. But mine isn't an off-the-shelf unit...I built it myself because I wanted complete control... That aside, it just plain *works*.

Major advantages: Drives can be pulled and read anywhere, new drives can be added whenever you need more space. Disadvantage: Cost per gigabyte is higher since it duplicates data (selectively) to multiple drives (however, hard drives are cheap, right?).

Just order one of these.

FWIW, I use a pair of Drobos as NAS & find them very convenient (scalable to need). If you were to use them with "green" drives (like WD) they might fit your need for relatively small, convenient & energy saving. Doesn't get you past the proprietary software issue but that's a very common problem with NAS/RAID systems.

jamesf99 wrote:
Drobos are like all NAS from a proprietary software perspective. this is one thing that is keeping me on the fence for some of these things.

I honestly don't know why all these companies insist on writing their own Unix/Linux proprietary code/data storage algorithms and storing data in some funky way. It has been a long time for me, but I guess they're just creating a hash table or something.

seriously. We're talking about data storage for the most part. I know there are communication protocols between the drives, the "case", the client software (if present) so writing code for that is fine, but why can't these guys store data in a consistent form?

I'm assuming that a WHS will store data in a "readable" fashion, and by readable, I mean pull the drive out and put it in a "Blacx box" (or similar) or external case, hook it up, and see what you have...

I use a D-Link DNS 321 with two one terabyte drives. It's been reliable and relatively simple to use and takes up very little space.

http://www.dlink.ca/products/?pid=666

DIS Ottawa wrote:
D-Link DNS 321 with two one terabyte drives.

Yes Im using it too, works perfectly... there are also 4TB I think, with 4 drives...

FWIW. I use a HP MediaSmart server to backup my primary desktop which contains my photos. But, as long as your needs are modest, you could use WD mirrored green drives which come in a single case and connects by USB 2.0.

L33t wrote:
DIS Ottawa wrote:
D-Link DNS 321 with two one terabyte drives.

Yes Im using it too, works perfectly... there are also 4TB I think, with 4 drives...

I have one of these but eventually gave up on it as it kept dropping out of my network - for inexplicable reasons. No joy with D-Link support, so I eventually switched to the Drobo. Have either of you experienced any similar problems?