I have been on this forum since 2003. Seen it go through a lot changes. I have noticed lately people are not being very thoughtful to others (part of the reason I am posting less). Whether its the person that just posted their first images or a veteran on the forum. Just because you think you are anonymous doesn't mean you are.

I would encourage people to be a little nicer. Be encouraging, be thoughtful, be inspiring. Just a thought. Anyone else notice this?

+1
Willy Wykeham FTW.

Let's hold hands, Andy. And bake some cupcakes.

but its always like that thou .. on any forums ...

there's always that elite group (cool kids) and some talk down or even look down on others .. which inspire me to get there and do the same

EVO088 wrote:
but its always like that thou .. on any forums ...

there's always that elite group (cool kids) and some talk down or even look down on others .. which inspire me to get there and do the same


I admit I laughed when I read that. Although I am young I guess I was taught that you should never get ahead at someone elses expense.

I used to moderate another forum (unrelated to photography) and you just notice a change in the users.

What I have noticed: there are SO MANY newbies joining and either asking for feedback or asking for equipment advice or asking for shooting advice. It's just gets tiring after a little while. A person can only give so much. All of these threads start with (paraphrasing) "I know, yet another first wedding critique post" or "my friend asked me to shoot their wedding, should I...."

Part of the issue is this economy. People are getting laid-off in herds and many are jumping to wedding photography thinking it's a license to print money. That is so untrue. I understand long-time shooters and different-genre shooters jumping in, at least they have a grasp of exposure and composition....but the sheer volume of newbies and lurkers is just....overwhelming.

There was also a certain level of photography that posted on FM. I think it has been watered down a bit or certain styles are being "copied" too much.

Hummm....2003. I will put that in context, that's around the time the digital revolution started...and that changed everything. The Canon Rebel series and Nikon D70/D80 were seminal cameras that reached mass consumption. For the Pros, the Canon 1D and Nikon D1 really kicked off the pro revolution.

The fact that many don't see the benefits of respect and diplomacy is really surprising to me. People like to think that they are Simon Cowell and are doing everyone else a favor, but the truth is that in real life, these people are usually the turds in the punch bowl.

Dpun says: Part of the issue is this economy. People are getting laid-off in herds and many are jumping to wedding photography thinking it's a license to print money. That is so untrue. I understand long-time shooters and different-genre shooters jumping in, at least they have a grasp of exposure and composition....but the sheer volume of newbies and lurkers is just....overwhelming.

There was also a certain level of photography that posted on FM. I think it has been watered down a bit or certain styles are being "copied" too much.

I well agree. I mostly shoot sports ,dabble a wedding or two at times( trying to understand WHy people shoot the ladies shoes...). Even on the sidelines of games or uncle Bobs at weddings , there are many people with new DSLRs thinking they will be the next Walter Iooss, Jr. (longtime Si shooter) or another Tony Hoffer (I voted for you in Rangefinder! Awesome work!) in 1-2 yrs time with mininal diligence.

If up to me, folks should have to learn photography on film/transparencies first, prove adequate skills ( Shoot a wedding or sports with a Canon T90/ EOS 1V or Nikon Fm2n or F5), then move to digital! I bet it would knock out many shooters around today!

It irks me when some here feel at liberty to rip into women in our industry, particularly if they reach some level of fame. I know locally that if you belittled a woman like that in public you would be taken outside.

I was starting to wonder if it was a cultural thing but glad to know many of you other guys don't appreciate it either.

Well said all. I particularly like the way you worded that Tony.

Cheers for bringing up this point...

We do have to remember though that sometimes CC can and must be harsh in order to get the point across and direct the person the right way. If we are all too friendly and "thoughtful" we may begin to refrain from providing honest.


dpun, I totally agree with your sentiments. I guess we all have to start somewhere though right. Education is free these days, especially if your resourceful. And as far as competition goes, I guess it is up to the photographer to stay ahead of the competition. How much weddings can a photog shoot in a year anyway.... sometimes you kind of need to hand over business to someone else because you get swamped or overbooked right?
Another thing to take into context is the entire notion of Post Processing...
I mean surely money can buy the latest gear and surely the marketing will go a long way, but what you do after you have snapped the images really defines who you are. I think Hoffer is prime example of that. We all know by know that he uses L glass on Canon Bodies, but its his post processing work that really differentiates his work from the rest. To that effect, I say welcome the noobs. If they are passionate enough to excel at this and create a business out of it, good luck to them. If they do it strictly for the money, then I guess it will show in their work.

In this business I think Passion is everything. I may not have been in the business too long, but I have been around photogs and I can see who does the work with passion and who shoots to pay the bills.

Anyways, I think this is a great thread. I just wanted to ad my two cents as I am very passionate about the issue as a whole.


Btw........

If not FM, then the lurkers will go to other forums.... this cannot be stopped so there is no point in getting vexed over it. I say embrace this sticky situation and just be your A game at all times.


Cheers.

=D

Wadda ya mean! You talkin' to me?
How dare you!

><

Seriously I think it reflects the mood of the nation. Civility is dead, one only need listen to the talking heads on radio to learn that dis-respect is now the norm.
(Which is precisely why I don't listen to any of them).

As far as posting here if I don't like what I see and I know that the OP does not take critisism very well I will just refrain from commenting on thier work. (I have also started using the "Hide Me" button).

There is a thread just like this going around the sports corner right now. I think the wedding forum is alot nicer than the sports forum. It got so bad over there that I quit posting because I was afraid of personal attacks. I don't mind someone telling me my work is bad or I made a bad choice, but nobody wants to hear, "you are stupid, that was the worst thought ever...." It happens.

If you are going to tell someone their work is bad, say it in a way that YOU would want to be told and tell them how to fix it. If you don't want to tell someone how to fix a problem, don't post. I live in the south where people wave to strangers and hold doors open for people coming into stores behind them. I know the internet doesn't work that way. Some people like to stir things up because they know that they never have to face these people in real life.

Some of the comments I have read on FM (and other internet forums) would get someone punched if they were said in person, face to face. I never say anything on these online forums that I wouldn't say to someone's face. I think you are just a coward hiding behind a keyboard if you say things differently than you would face to face.

It's ok to tell someone they did a bad job. There is a certain way to say it and show respect. If you spend the time telling them they did a bad job, spend the time telling them how to fix it. I don't believe in just giving everyone a pat on the back all the time. That doesn't help anyone learn. Sometimes if I really like a post and don't see any problems I will post positive comments that have no meaning and would be called a "pat on the back."

I understand the idea toward noobs. I have been in business for 3 years. I just got laid off from my full-time job in July. I'm seeing alot of new photographers pop up in my area. Most of them don't last very long. I have lost business to a couple of them charging less. It sucks but you just have to move on and let your work sell itself.

The internet is not a nice place sometimes. I like coming to FM to view all of the talent and talk shop with people who know how a camera works. For the most part, people here do show respect. My best advice to everyone, if you post a photo or even a comment to someone's work, be ready for people to say things that are not nice. Don't let it ruin your day. Try to seperate the internet from real life. Do not fan the flames, let it die. Try to treat everyone with respect and talk to them the way you would want someone to talk to you in real life. Have fun.

Ok, now flame me. Bet you $20 someone will.

This is the first forum I joined (and only recently) and at first it was great and I learned a lot. Lately however, I have become less interested because it`s pretty much the same thing over and over. That`s not the fault of the forum per se, it`s just a reflection of life. When I see a topic which interests me and to which I can post a reply which may be helpful then I will do so in the same manner as if I were talking to the OP in person and I would expect the same in return. I do not have an axe to grind and I don`t have to prove anything. I have no time for the idiots, I laugh at the trolls and fanboys and use the `hide me` button on some of the arrogant and condescending "names" who, were they to bad rap me in a `mano a mano`situation would do so only once. Feel the love.

canonet wrote:
trying to understand WHy people shoot the ladies shoes...).



Shoes : women , cars : men. My better half does not bother trying to understand why I lust after cars...and I don't ask about her shoe fetish....it's just one of those facts of life that make each sex unique in their own way.

(Edit) My fantasy: lying naked on top of a Ferrari 599 and getting my pic taken. If you've ever seen me, you would know that any L glass and (attached 1DS3) would shatter into millions of pieces once focus was acquired.

I guess I agreee to a certain extrent that the internet is not a great place... but only "SOMETIMES".... Like when I posted some images and never got even a single cc.... that kinda bummed me out a little. What I did was to learn 10 mroe and nail the next assignment even more.

When you get beat down, you work harder to stand up again stronger and last longer than the last around i guess.

For the most part though, the internet is not only the best source of inspiration and networking, but it is also a form of realism and authenticity that books themselves can no longer keep up with.

I mean I met great people from FM forums in my community and some who I actually connect with on a regular basis. This is not say that I attempt to take business away from them or anything, but I just love to talk "Photography talk" all day long.

Companionship is as valuable as a network.

You should hang out in the landscape forum if you're feeling belittled or insignificant etc... Those guys (and gals) don't have a negative bone in their bodies, or a negative word in their vocabularies (even though sometimes they should!)

But here in the wedding forum I have noticed a change, less serious (not necessarily a bad thing) but some newbs (mostly) definitely changing the feel of the forum. Unfortunately what attracted me here a few years ago isn't quite the same. But of course the only thing we can count on is change. So we can be part of the problem, or part of the solution.

Chris Miller
www.imagineimagery.com

I think me and Kelly Phillips were separated at birth...

It's funny...I thought things were actually pretty good around here lately. It's all relative I guess... Things seemed to really get snippy around here a couple months ago when wedding season was in full swing...I just chalked it up to folks being tired/busy/worn out/etc. For the most part, I think everyone here is really helpful and one of the things that keeps me here is the "big family" feel of the place.

Jeremy, if you're ever up this way the coffee is on me.