I picked up a gig shooting a HS Reunion in a banquet room this upcoming weekend. I don't have the room dimensions. I will be shooting posed shots in the corner with a small setup, then candids, then a group shot. I have plenty of lighting equipment, but I want to use as little as possible. Will a 1200ws head shot into the modifier below be adequate for the group shot (50-60 people)? I plan to be on a stool with the light directly above me...I will confirm with the hotel that I have at least a 14' ceiling before getting there.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/62710-REG/Westcott_2025_Round_Halo_Mono_Softbox.html

This would be ideal, since I'm going to use this setup (albeit with a smaller pack at 1/4 power) for the posed shots. I'd like to be able to move my light over to the ballroom, stick the head about 10' high, meter the center and sides and just shoot. The Halo spreads out pretty wide, but I've never shot a group this large before and I don't have a room big enough to make a test before the event. My other option is to use (2) 400ws heads with (2) Halos, but that means more setup time/power cables, and I will be doing this group shot in the middle of their party.

I really appreciate any advice!!

Nary a peep?

I think you'd be better off with a couple of 45 to 60" umbrellas. I shot about 60 people with 1 60" and 1 41" umbrella and two Elinchrom RX-600's and had plenty of power and coverage. I also shot a large group of kids with two SB-900's held up at either side of the group and a low shutter speed to let in more ambient light. The key is getting them all lit pretty evenly and I don't think you can do that with one light over the camera. Because of the size of the group if you line them up in a 3 or 4 or 5 rows you're going to need a enough depth of field to get them all sharp so you'll need plenty of light.

Thanks for the thoughts Gregg.

Strobist just had a great piece on the subject.

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2009/10/qna-big-group-in-big-dark-room.html

Thanks for the link.

For a group that large it would be advantageous to get up as high as possible with camera and lights, with the people looking up at the camera.

Shooting down puts all the faces a more similar distance from camera and lights, relative to each other, resulting in more even lighting and less near/far size distortion. Another trick to keep things even if using one light in the center is to curve the group around the light, because it falls off evenly in an equidistant arc.

Edit: With the people looking up you can also bounce the light off the ceiling above them and it will come down and evenly light their faces

Here is a group of about 40 I did at a local country club.
Two AB800s, one bounced into the wall ceiling angle on each side.
I was on a ladder so camera was maybe 10 or 12 feet above the floor.

dmward wrote:
Here is a group of about 40 I did at a local country club.
Two AB800s, one bounced into the wall ceiling angle on each side.
I was on a ladder so camera was maybe 10 or 12 feet above the floor.



Not sure if it is the JPEG conversion, but it does not look sharp at all. Almost seems blurry. Not sure if that is me, my monitor, or the photo.

Thanks for the pointers CG. Can I borrow the corny pocket/wallet line? I practiced giving your instructions to my wife and daugthers and I see how the job can indeed easily be accomplished in <1 minute.

I visited the room today. Should be plenty of space to get them in 4-5 rows of 10-15 wide. I'm going to go out on a limb and try a single 86" white PLM reversed lantern style. I was told that it spreads about 170 degrees. I can get it up to about 12' on center. Standing right below it will put my lens about 8' high with me on a latter. I can be 25-35 feet away from the front. I'm using a 1200w head, so should have penty of power. I really want to keep the setup simple since the middle of the event will basically be on hold while I setup.

If someone tells me that I really need to use a head below the monster I can stick another below it ala clamshell, but then my pack is only going to send 600w to the 86" and 300w to the 45" Halo I use below. Seeing dmward's goup shot gives me confidence that backed up enough I'll have enough spread for the left to right, now I'm just a little concerned about having the exposure drop too much on the legs of the front row.

jdben622 wrote:

If someone tells me that I really need to use a head below the monster I can stick another below it ala clamshell, but then my pack is only going to send 600w to the 86" and 300w to the 45" Halo I use below. Seeing dmward's goup shot gives me confidence that backed up enough I'll have enough spread for the left to right, now I'm just a little concerned about having the exposure drop too much on the legs of the front row.

If you have the group looking up, the simplest key light strategy is to bounce the light off the ceiling so the downward angle off the ceiling matches upward tilt of the faces creating a centered, butterfly-like pattern on the faces.

Its a matter of setting goals and priorities. The #1 goal is seeing the faces in similar light to create continuity; i.e., that its a group not a random collection of different people in the same frame. That makes everything else in the photo a potential distraction from the faces lit evenly from above.

To make the faces contrast and be seen, everything else needs to be darker and less distracting. From above, directly or bounced, the key light from above will fall off downward from the faces creating a nice natural vignetted on the bodies in the front row. Adding fill low will lighten the bodies in the front row making them a distraction from the faces.

What you want to avoid with fill is having it so low relative to the face the cheekbones cast upward shadows on the top of the cheeks. FYI - What "clamshell" does is literally stick the subject's head between the key and fill < 0 sources like the head being eaten by Packman so both lights wrap around all the contours of the face, avoiding the upward shadow problem.

What you are looking for is a more generic "butterfly" pattern where the key light is centered in line with all 60 noses facing the camera. Centering the key light above the head in-line with the nose is an excellent strategy for a full-face view because it hides the distracting nose shadow out of sight under the nose, and frames the face with shadows on the sides. The net effect of angle and lighting in that full-face orientation are faces which appear symmetrical (because angle and lighting /nose shadow both are) and slim because the shadows frame the face.

A big umbrella or bounce off the ceiling may be diffuse enough that fill is not needed. I you do add fill, put it where the camera will see shadows, about chin level. Relative to where the camera and key light are it will be quite low, but there it needs to be relative to the faces, which again are the #1 priority.

Another strategy you can use with the faces looking up would be using an umbrella as your key light overhead, then bouncing your fill off the ceiling. I used a similar strategy I used for this single flash shot:

Thanks Chuck. Some of the behind the scene angles you use are quite intriguing. The picture above looks like it was taken straight on. I've seen a picture of your wife sitting on a hill where you say her chin is over her knees and I would have bet a month's salary that it was square to her chest. I have some experimenting to do!!

OK...finished up the event yesterday. The posed shots will deliver. The "candids" are mainly just alumni interacting...there were no planned activities or games. The group shot was OK. I do appreciate all of the helpful posts. The group was smaller than I expected as spouses/significants were not included. Still, my inexperience really shows through in the image.

It was about 2/3's of the way through the event when I got the OK to make the shot. I'll never let that happen again...too many drunks to contend with. I wish I would have framed it with the final 8 x 10 print in my mind. I have the group way too spread out and as a result, I think I've got too much space on the top due to the crop limitations. I would have liked more room to breathe on the sides. I also made the mistake of centering the light and shoot a little to the left. The 86" PLM is so huge, I could not get it high enough to shoot directly under it. As a result, I've got a slanted top and bottom which bugs me to no end. My biggest gripe is the posing...it's just not very tight.

I will give kudos to the PLM. I think it lit everyone with good consistency. I metered f9 nearly all the way across the group. I was about 25 feet away using a 1200ws head. The PLM really delivered IMO.

Even more than the crop, the projector screen is what stands out the most.

You don't have to worry about not being able to shoot right under the main when you've got a source as big as the 86''. At that distance, it's still going to be almost perfectly even across the group and any shadows created from someone blocking the light will be very minimal. Good job.

Thanks for the comment and for not letting the screen slide. I agree, it sucked. It was much bigger than appears and hotel staff had to set it up before their event started. I was a little intimidated by the pattern on the side wall. I just consistantly mucked it up and came up with this edit. Passable?

jdben622 wrote:
Thanks Chuck. Some of the behind the scene angles you use are quite intriguing. The picture above looks like it was taken straight on. I've seen a picture of your wife sitting on a hill where you say her chin is over her knees and I would have bet a month's salary that it was square to her chest. I have some experimenting to do!!

Its just a matter of understanding that near/far size perspective is a function of relative distance between the nearest and furthest objects.

In the case of the shot of my wife I saw the Bayon tree in a park and was reminded of Adams' shot of Weston. We didn't go there to take portraits, hence the white shirt, I just had the camera (a 2 MP Kodak DC290 P&S w. 3x zoom) along The problem techincally was the tree was top of a steep hill and I didn't have any way to get the camera above eye level and get a crop wide enough to include the tree. I when down the hill and shot with max zoom, but had her bend at the hips, keeping her back straight. Her chin was over her knees...