Forum members ask a lot of questions directed toward me. I try to answer questions and to provide the info they ask for. I try to follow the intent of the forum rules and not make sales pitches or bash others (I do defend myself when attacked without provocation). I would like the opinion of the members and, of course, of Fred. If the info I post is not wanted, I won't post anything but direct answers to direct questions.

I was hoping for Paul C Buff kudos on the 86" PLM shots I posted but other then that, keep on doin' what you're doin'.

I'm sorry, but I don't find it appropriate that Paul closed his forums and dissapointed all those members, and then start posting all sorts of "information" (read: advertising) because some members may want it. Isn't that what the AB website is for? Or their toll-free number? Or email? I consider that taking advantage...

And it wouldn't be any better if other companies did it either. Maybe in the marketplace section, or a new area of the forum for companies to speak directly to the potential consumer. I'm fine with postings that help customers with questions/issues/problems, but posting all sorts of advertising (errrr...."info) seems to shift this forum away from a shooter's forum.

Lastly, and I really don't want to stir the pot with this, but given the accuracy/timeliness of so many "product announcements" that we've seen in the past, I find it to cheapen this forum to fill the threads with more vaporware announcements and unmet promises. Poo happens and all that, and I know PCB certainly would have the products available now, but the fact is...they aren't, and giving us more announcements just seems silly. That's what the PCB site should be for.

cathpah wrote:
I'm sorry, but I don't find it appropriate that Paul closed his forums and dissapointed all those members, and then start posting all sorts of "information" (read: advertising) because some members may want it. Isn't that what the AB website is for? Or their toll-free number? Or email? I consider that taking advantage...

And it wouldn't be any better if other companies did it either. Maybe in the marketplace section, or a new area of the forum for companies to speak directly to the potential consumer. I'm fine with postings that help customers with questions/issues/problems, but posting all sorts of advertising (errrr...."info) seems to shift this forum away from a shooter's forum.

Lastly, and I really don't want to stir the pot with this, but given the accuracy/timeliness of so many "product announcements" that we've seen in the past, I find it to cheapen this forum to fill the threads with more vaporware announcements and unmet promises. Poo happens and all that, and I know PCB certainly would have the products available now, but the fact is...they aren't, and giving us more announcements just seems silly. That's what the PCB site should be for.

I appreciate your opinion, but I was posting on FM long before we ever put up our forum. I don't originate posts on FM - just try to answer questions. Like any human being, I respond when I receive unprovoked attacks and/or insults. I believe my ratio of insults received vs insults returned is extremely low, and the ratio of unprovoked insults received to unprovoked insults submitted is near infinite. I made one mistake recently regarding Shatterkiss - on rereading his posts I was out of line.

The reason I put up this poll is to get a feel for whether my presence is wanted here or not. If I wanted to play games here, I would just ask supporters post from our website. But I don't like games.

jeremy_clay wrote:
I was hoping for Paul C Buff kudos on the 86" PLM shots I posted but other then that, keep on doin' what you're doin'.

Jeremy - Here's the deal. Yes, I though your shots were pretty darn fantastic. But If I had stated that here I would have gotten yelled at for saying your shots were impressive just because you used my equipment and that I'm therefore promoting my equipment. For this reason I don't generally do positive critiques when my equipment is involved, nor to I do negative critiques when other equipment is used. Now do a bad shot with my equipment or a great shot with someone else's equipment I'll express my opinion.

Plus I'm not a pro shooter and don't like to play one on cyberspace. But I noticed you got great reviews from your peers.

Rule number 5 on the forum seems fairly straightforward to me "No SPAM, advertisements, schemes, or fictitious announcements."

I guess it would depend on how you define advertisement or spam. Would an identical post 'giving info' about new products under three different threads in a half hour constitute spam or an advertisement?

Oh and Jeremy, those were some great drummer shots btw. That kit was insane.

Fine for me, but forum wise they would say differently. Now if they had a vendor fees, why not?

But yeah, after the PCB forums closed I had no idea where to look. It's a good thing your still active on here. I still go on the PCB forums to read and look around.

Here's the way I see it:

I come here for information. The more information I absorb and the more I learn, the better I become. If I see something I like, I want to know how it was done. That's why I'm here, and I think that's why most of us are.

I don't see your participation in this forum as objective solicitation, nor as any sort of clever marketing or PR ploy to sculpt the minds of the amateurs that dominate this community. Your participation here is exactly what I appreciate from a company; quick, legitimate answers that are available for public access in a largely neutral community.

Every day I'm asked to become a fan of a product or business on facebook. I decline; That is not why I have facebook. 30 times a day I'm organizing my Gmail inbox, where Google has a script that reads the content of every subject and e-mail and displays relevant advertisements above my most recent messages. Many people struggle with these facts of the digital world but really now, welcome to the internet. Smart people buy houses off of online ad revenue, and though I don't know if this is work they find particularly satisfying, I won't belittle them for making a living off of it.

Paul, in my opinion, you spamming the FM forum would be popping up on every underexposed portrait in the people forum and suggesting, "Hey, you've underexposed your subject. Buy product x from me," or every time someone posts a picture with harsh shadows from OCF enter, "Your lighting is flat and unflattering. Buy product y from me to fix it!"

...but that is ridiculous, isn't it?

I have never read a questionable reply from you on this forum, and just because my post count isn't even three figures doesn't mean I'm not reading these forums every day. I appreciate your presence here as most others do too, and I'd be disappointed if you left. Company branded forums don't work, because they never appeal to a neutral crowd. No matter what the company or product, any time there is a corporate branded forum it does not work. Members of a corporate forum will either absolutely love the product/service that this company offers or they will hate it, which hardly makes ground for intelligent discussion. You figured this out, and I'm glad.

Even though your forum is now closed, there will still be the people that love what you offer and hate it, but in a community like this the childish arguing is less often in the way. There is and always will be unprovoked attacks towards your products by those with nothing better to do, and with your name quite literally on the products they speak of it is certainly understandable for you to become defensive. My only advice to you is to know when to leave it alone, as for the majority of us here with the intent to learn, derailed posts that turn into flamewars leave us wanting nothing more than to shush all you thread-jackers up so we can get back to the topic at hand and learn more.

We appreciate your presence here, and you taking the time to participate in discussion and answer people's questions definitely shows you care about your customers.

I decided to place an order with your company recently not because you hang out on the same forum that I do, but because the majority of the photogs that I admire on this board are using your product, so I want to too. This is the same reason I've bought the lenses that I've bought, and want the ones that I do. For me, you participating in the forum simply enforced the plethora of good reviews online regarding your company's customer service standards, and my experience thus far as further enforced this too.

I placed my order late Sunday night, and UPS attempted to deliver the package on Tuesday to a location deep enough into Central Canada that I'm expecting snow on the weekend. I was out at the time yesterday, but sure enough UPS returned this morning and delivered a single box, packed well and included with everything I had ordered. Thanks. I appreciate what your company provides for today's photographers, and would do business again in a heartbeat.

Remember not to get sucked into the haters; One of the most Important things I've learned hanging out in the people forum is that those with nothing good to say usually take the worst pictures themselves, so why does what tthheeyy would do different really matter anyways?

All the best Paul, stick around!

B

This must be the stupidest poll I've ever seen.

Sorry, but as all providers, they should keep their own site. If someone has a question then it should be done there not here. This opinion was formed after reading another PCB post.

As long as you don't start the post and are simply answering a question someone has on your product, then please do.

You know your product better then we do, so please answer away.

I have never seen a post of yours that I felt you were selling your product in any way.

Please stick around Paul, to have an actual manufacturers' ear is rare indeed.

The unvarnished opinions and conversations of both the product designer and real users is very valuable to me.

Paul, stick around and keep sharing information. You are providing helpful informative responses about products that you know well. So what if you invented them and sell them, I am here to get information.

I hope the silent majority will speak up and let you know they appreciate your posts.

Any professional photographer who posts images on FM could be accused of advertising or self-promotion.

Ignore the critics but respect the opinions of the moderators. I think you play by the rules here.

IMO, vendors and manufacturers can play a useful role here provided that they clearly state their affiliation. PCB, B&H and Adorama all meet this criteria to my satisfaction.

For the people who prefer not to see posts by a specific person - well, that's what the "Hide Me" button is for isn't it?

paul isn't the only vendor who has members on this board. I think there's a guy from B&H on here too, and I know I've seen a couple of others.

I for one do not own any PBC equipment, but I do enjoy(sometimes) the info paul gives on his products. It's more in depth info that you will find on his site and generally can be just good technical info as a whole.

I don't see any problem unless he starts making threads announcing sales, or launches of new products.

I think the poll results speak for themselves.

sleibrand wrote:
IMO, vendors and manufacturers can play a useful role here provided that they clearly state their affiliation. PCB, B&H and Adorama all meet this criteria to my satisfaction.

For the people who prefer not to see posts by a specific person - well, that's what the "Hide Me" button is for isn't it?

I agree with this. Chuck Westfall (Canon technical representative) used to be a frequent contributor on the old Rob Galbraith forum, and that was certainly useful and welcomed. He now has a regular Q/A column on digitaljournalist.org, but it's not as handy as the give and take we could get on the forum.

I agree with having you and all other vendors/reps that frequent this site. I want all the info I can get on a subject which is why I am here. To say that Paul or any vendor is not welcome is going against the very reason why we frequent these sites - to gather/share info with each other. Thanks Paul!

There are plenty of posters here who own Paul's gear that are more than capable of speaking of the virtues and vices of his gear. If posters want to find out detailed specs and other esoteric minutiae from Paul, they can reach him any time at his website.

Deezie wrote:
There are plenty of posters here who own Paul's gear that are more than capable of speaking of the virtues and vices of his gear. If posters want to find out detailed specs and other esoteric minutiae from Paul, they can reach him any time at his website.

But they come here asking.