In all discussions about 4/3rds or mFT format what surprises me most is that people seem to think as if a 4/3rds sensor is tiny compared to an APS-C sensor. In reality the size difference between these two formats is not that much.

APS-C sensor is 0.625x of the 35mm sensor and the 4/3rds is 0.5x of the 35mm sensor. Sure there is a difference but it is not a great as some people imagine.

Put another way the difference between the FF and any of these formats is much larger than the difference within these two formats.

The GF1 at $900, +$200 to not have to hold at arms length and a 20MM(40mm equivalent) fixed focal length just doesn't seem very practical to me. I saw this review of the GF1 EVF and have decided its a great time to be snug with the buck. Great format for the masses but holding a camera out in front of me on the street seems wa-hoo. I have 5D and love it and the only thing I want to add is a Leica FF rangefinder, just not at the M9 price-point. I hope I live to see the day. Here's comments on the EVF which would be the only solution to keeping my arms in close and it doesn't look promising (yet).
Cons:

The screen is tiny. Imagine the smallest DSLR viewfinder you have ever used. Now reduce that.
Resolution is too low to check for focusing.
Major tunnel vision.
Colours seem less accurate than the LCD.
Awkward button positioning for switching from LVF to LCD.
Takes up the hotshoe.
Expensive.

Pros:

Tiltable. A really, really great feature. Useful for photographing from lower angles.
Has diopter adjustment.
Impervious to sunlight.
It’s a viewfinder.

TR3B wrote:
The GF1 at $900, +$200 to not have to hold at arms length and a 20MM(40mm equivalent) fixed focal length just doesn't seem very practical to me. I saw this review of the GF1 EVF and have decided its a great time to be snug with the buck. Great format for the masses but holding a camera out in front of me on the street seems wa-hoo. I have 5D and love it and the only thing I want to add is a Leica FF rangefinder, just not at the M9 price-point. I hope I live to see the day. Here's comments on the EVF which would be the only solution to keeping my arms in close and it doesn't look promising (yet).
Cons:

The screen is tiny. Imagine the smallest DSLR viewfinder you have ever used. Now reduce that.
Resolution is too low to check for focusing.
Major tunnel vision.
Colours seem less accurate than the LCD.
Awkward button positioning for switching from LVF to LCD.
Takes up the hotshoe.
Expensive.

Pros:

Tiltable. A really, really great feature. Useful for photographing from lower angles.
Has diopter adjustment.
Impervious to sunlight.
It’s a viewfinder.

If you want a real viewfinder, the G1 or GH1 are the way to go, their EVF is huge and very good.

Remember, we're comparing the GF1 to the X1 here. Both are LV-only cameras with no viewfinder, only a fixed LCD. The GF1 can use either a lens-matched OVF or a clip-on low-rez EVF. The X1 can use a lens-matched OVF (with less hassles, as you can use a standard 35mm RF OVF since the FoV and aspect ratio matches up, the GF1's 4:3 aspect ratio means you're cropping down to 3:2 or guessing on exact composition with a clip-on OVF).

It's encouraging to see how many people will not buy the X1. It increases the potential for mine to arrive sooner.

snowboarder wrote:
I know I won't spend a dime on anything with "Leica" logo on it.


Hey snowboarder, why is that? Did you have a bad experience with their equipment in the past?

DPReview's X1 samples are up...

http://www.dpreview.com/gallery/leicax1_preview/

Pretty unimpressive, IMO. Even the stopped down shots seem pretty soft, the bokeh wide open is of the "interesting" type, not the smooth type. I imagine it's fun to shoot with, but first impressions lead me to believe that a GF1/20mm f/1.7 combo would give you better quality at the end of the day.

Barry Pehlman wrote:


Leica film cameras hold their value... that's a fact. The M8, a disaster IMO,

A disaster that saved the company and sold more cameras that the five years before it combined? Now that is an interesting notion...

I think a MR. Potato head would. !

Okay. Seriously. i just bought a used Leica M6. Manual everything. I was trying to shoot in a low-lit place. What a pain in the ass. At that point, I would have loved ANY digital camera. I'm pushing my 400 film to 800 ISO, and I shot such a slow shutter speed, who knows if any of the shots will come out. Then again, I asked for it. I brought film that wasn't adequate for the lighting. I wasn't sure what the lighting would be, but I burned an old B&W roll to see if the camera even works. Outside, luckily, there were some Harleys lined up. I got a good shot of those. (I wanted film, that's what ya get. I'm so used to digital, I forgot how to load a damned camera. Sad, huh? Digital is convenient at times.)

My point is, I wanted a P&S digital that is easy to use, nice features, shoot RAW, zoom lens, built-in flash, and lovely files. I don't want 4/3 cameras, just a good point and shoot. I would like it for back-up on the M6. I read all of your frustrations and agree. There's nothing perfect out there.

Pretty soon we'll all be playing with Mr. Potato head, due to insanity of the search.

You'd be surprised at how low you can go on shutter speed with an M6 or similar camera. 1/15 is quite doable, 1/8th for those with steady hands.

Film choice is an issue, which is why I prefer to have two bodies in any mount I actively shoot, and ideally 3. I load fast B&W in one, slow colour or B&W in the other.

I only have old film, outdated. I had a roll of Tri-x 400, pushed it to 800. I couldn't recall how high you could push that film. I wish I pushed it to 1600, if that were even possible. It's been a while since I've used any film camera. This is my 1st Leica film camera.

As for P&S digitals, I love them. Just haven't found a good one yet. I was thinking of leica d-lux 4 as a good all around camera. It has flash, zoom, raw, pretty good quality, shoots macro. If there is another camera like that, but better, I'd sure like to know about it.

Matter of fact, I think I saw an issue of Outside magazine hanging around here with some nice small p&s cameras in it. (I have a Canon G9, but find it dog slow in taking pictures, and the files aren't the greatest when shot in low light, or blown up. Too bad though. Seemed almost the perfect P&S.)

Still, with all of limitations on the Leica M6, due to all of the handy, dandy digitals, to me, it's still something special. Having never owned one, it's always been a dream.

snegron wrote:
Anyone thinking about getting one when they become available?

Nope.

jaapv wrote:
Barry Pehlman wrote:


Leica film cameras hold their value... that's a fact. The M8, a disaster IMO,

A disaster that saved the company and sold more cameras that the five years before it combined? Now that is an interesting notion...

Right On! And I bet we ain't seen nothin' yet...

no