lighting a large group outdoors
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innaeddy1
Registered: Jun 13, 2008
Total Posts: 500
Country: United States

I have been asked to do a family shot for some friends.I mainly shoot sports,but have shot some couples and single portraits.There will be 27 people in the photo ranging from young to old.I have 2 monolights at 160ws each,1 - 24" softbox,1 - 48" silver umbrella,wireless transceiver for monolights and a canon 430 speed light with off camera bracket.I can borrow a power source if I need one for the monolights.I am looking for some pointers/tips for this group shot.I have scouted the location and found what I think are some good places.I have done a search and found alot of people saying to bring a ladder to get the angle,etc.One of the places I found has me elevated naturally and have posted below.any ideas or tips would be very helpful.

ps if I dont need all the light all the better,the shot will occur around 5-6 in the eve.

thanks

jcolman
Registered: Feb 21, 2008
Total Posts: 4769
Country: United States

So you're saying that you have three lights to work with? Arrange the people in groups of 6 or 7 on the hiill. Since you'll be shooting at a time of day when there is still plenty of light, I'd arrange the three lights (with just their reflectors) equal distance up the hill. The idea is that you want one light to hit a group of people on the first level, another light to hit the group on the second level, etc. The lights are simply adding a bit of fill to their faces. If you can borrow or rent a fourth light, even better. The last group, being so far away, will need the most light to make them pop out.

joezasada
Registered: Feb 25, 2005
Total Posts: 3011
Country: Canada

If you can get some Chimera Lanterns or Pancake Lanterns to put on your lights that will help light up the area...

Daniel Heineck
Registered: Oct 20, 2007
Total Posts: 1563
Country: United States

I have nothing to add other than I'm looking forward to seeing what you can do on Lombard Street

innaeddy1
Registered: Jun 13, 2008
Total Posts: 500
Country: United States

what is lombard st? I am also looking forward to see what I can do. I have some other places within walking distance of this place if it dont work out

thanks

bobbyz
Registered: Jun 29, 2004
Total Posts: 1737
Country: United States

innaeddy1 wrote:
what is lombard st? I am also looking forward to see what I can do. I have some other places within walking distance of this place if it dont work out

thanks

Your photo looks like the famous Lombard street here in San Francisco.

sgraafmans
Registered: Feb 06, 2006
Total Posts: 214
Country: Australia

All you need is one flash or strode with an assistant to hold a boom.
Shoot your frames individually of each person useing the same exposure for each indivdual and just layer the frames together. This way you will preserve the natural look of the scene and have perfect exposure for each individual.
Steve.

cgardner
Registered: Nov 18, 2002
Total Posts: 7929
Country: United States

Work the problem in terms of the overall goals, best strategies to achieve the goals and the tools and techniques needed will reveals themselves;

The basic goal in a group shot is to see the small faces amidst a sea of distractions. In terms of strategies to do that it all distills down to making the faces contrast with everything else. Conceptually imagine starting with a dark room, then dressing everyone toe-to-neck in black. Would you have any trouble finding the faces in that photo?

That provides a clue about effective group photo strategy. To the extent possible use the background and clothing to contrast and isolate the faces. So your proposed location, which very interesting, may be interesting to the point of distracting from what is more important - the faces of the people in the group.

Beyond seeing the faces in the photo you need to render them in a flattering way with the lighting pattern on the faces, a function of the angle of the key light to the face. In a full face view, which most large group shots are, the most flattering strategy for light placement is to keep the light centered with the noses to avoid any distracting sideways shadows. If a key light is placed on one side or the other half the faces will be short lit and the others broad lit. The light will also fall of across the group making the exposure uneven.

Even exposure of the faces will be obtained by keeping all the faces an equal distance from the light source creating the highlights. If you were to tie a 20' string to your key light and put the other end on the tip of the nose of everyone in the front row if the group they would be equally illuminated. They also would wind up standing in a arc around the camera and lights, not a straight line.

Thus when developing your group posing strategy you need to be cognizant of the need to keep the faces an equal distance from the the light(s) to obtain even exposure, and ensure the pattern of light on the face is flattering on every face in the group. A single centered source, if powerful enough, will work if you can curve the group around it. The second best choice for flattering light would be a two-light butterfly pattern.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

When using more than one light to illuminate a wide group there will be crossed-shadow lighting on the faces to some extent, but that's less of a problem in a group shot because the faces are relatively small. But with any lighting strategy try to minimize any dark nose shadows on the faces, which will distract from seeing the more important eyes and mouth.

Another technical problem in group shots is near/far perspective which causes the nearer heads and bodies in the front to look much bigger than those in the back. Like the making the lighting even the solution is to keep the faces as close as possible to the same distance relative to the camera. The key word is "relative" as the camera moves further away from the front row the relative distance between front and back rows and the camera decreases and there will be less near/far size distortion. Thus the ideal strategy for a group is to place the heads as close together as possible from the point of view of the camera, then shoot from as far away as possible. Distance controls perspective, focal length the in-camera crop.

So again your proposed location where each row may be several feet away from the next will complicate things for you in terms if keeping all the heads equal size unless you are able to shoot from far enough away to minimize the distortion.

An effective way to minimize near/far distortion and put more emphasis on the faces is to shoot the group from an elevated point of view. Raising the the camera will put the heads of stacked rows of people closer together from the point of view of the camera by rotating the bodies under the faces. That higher POV also increases the relative size of the faces vs body versus a eye level view making the faces contrast more (the basic goal we started with). When the lights are then placed above the camera (which is necessary to maintain the flattering downward angle of the light relative to the faces which will be looking up at the camera) the net effect is to also create contrast with the lighting because the faces will now be much closer to the lights that the bodies. So shooting down from a ladder or other high vantage point is more effective in terms of even head size and flattering even lighting on all the faces than shooting from eye level or below.

A way to make a low vantage point work in a group shot it to have the people lean forward over the rail so their upper bodies and faces stay parallel with the upward tilt of the camera.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Its the reverse of shooting from a ladder and having the people look up; the goal being to keep the plane of the face more or less equal to the plane of the camera sensor to avoid keystone distortion. To flatter the face you need to have the camera wind up, in relative terms, higher than the eye line of the subject so as to hide the nostrils (the bane of the low camera angle) and then arrange the angle of the light so it hits the face at the same angle relative to the face as it would in an eye-level butterfly lit scenario. Lighting patterns are a function of the angle of the key light to the bridge of the nose (where the nose shadow originates) not the camera axis, so as the face moves relative to the camera - up/down/sideways - the key light needs to move by the same amount (as if connected by an invisible rod between the eyes) to maintain the flattering pattern. So if changing from a nicely lit eye-level view to a raised shooting position where the subject is looking up you'd need to rotate the lights up also to maintain their relative position with the face. If the subjects are leaning down over the railing, the lighting would need to be repositioned downward to maintain the same lighting pattern.

Recap:

1) Use contrast of background and clothing to isolate faces as much as possible. The focal point should be the faces, not the background.

2) Pick a lighting strategy which will keep all the faces evenly lit by keeping them equidistant from the light(s) and position the lights to avoid any distracting nose shadow.

3) Control near/far size distortion with camera POV relative to the each face, keeping the faces as equidistant to the camera as possible with the plane of the front of the face parallel with the angle of the camera. Camera looks down / faces look up. Camera looks up / faces angled down.

innaeddy1
Registered: Jun 13, 2008
Total Posts: 500
Country: United States

thanks for the input. the photo shoot is scheduled for 2nd week in aug.i will try and post results afterwards.

innaeddy1
Registered: Jun 13, 2008
Total Posts: 500
Country: United States

#1 is the photo that the family picked for there large canvas print and # 2 is the 4 siblings. the shot that i was wanting to do with the curved walkway didnt work ot like i had wanted to. the point that i was going to be shootin from was just to high and to far away.still going to try and do something with the walkway just got to study it more. thanks for the help. #3 is the 22"x38" canvas print coming of the printer.the parents of the kids loved it and have asked me to do some more photos of them.

willax1
Registered: Sep 25, 2005
Total Posts: 56
Country: New Zealand

Nice shots ,however I'd like to thank Chuck for all the wonderful info he's putting out there I have leaned so much!!! Big cheers from N.Z!!

innaeddy1
Registered: Jun 13, 2008
Total Posts: 500
Country: United States

thanks......... i also would like to thank him and every one else

Alphabug
Registered: Mar 25, 2009
Total Posts: 60
Country: N/A

Great results and thanks for sharing !!

How did you end up lighting the large group photograph ? Was it just natural light ?

Austen.

innaeddy1
Registered: Jun 13, 2008
Total Posts: 500
Country: United States

on the one with the 4 siblings i used flash for fill to keep the back ground the way you see it.on the large it was natural light

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