I need a new body for sports shooting. I've been doing it on the cheap with a 40D but I just had the shutter crap out so I'm going to use that as backup only. I'm looking at stepping up to a 1D for a while, but money's tight. I've got some events that I have to shoot this fall and winter, and I'm thinking that I need to pick up something late summer, early fall.

I've been looking at 1DmkIIN and used 1Dmk3's. The 3 is a bit pricey right now, but if it is head and shoulders over the 2N, then I can go for that if necessary. Then, looking at the introduction schedules of the 1D's seems like the Mk3 is due for an update this September or so. That would be great timing for me to pick up a mk3 used.

Then again, if I bought a used mk2N now, I'd probably not be losing a whole lot either if I had to sell it.

Some questions:
1. What would you do in my situation?

2. How would you compare the high ISO performance of the 1Dmk2N against the 5D? I own a 5D, so that is a good point of reference for me.

3. How well do the Mk2N NiMH batteries do in the cold? Is there a remote battery pack option?

J.

I've got a 1d2 and a 5d, so I can give a few comments from that perspective. Keep in mind the 1d2 and 1d2n have the same sensor, so I would expect similar performance.

1. In terms of ISO, the 5D is probably about 2/3 to 1 stop or so better
2. I am going to upgrade from the 1d2 to a 1d3 in aug/sept timeframe, with the main reason being that extra stop of high iso. I want that extra performance for night soccer, otherwise I would probably just keep my 1d2.
3. I've not had a problem with the batts of the 1d2 in moderately cold weather, but I don't shoot winter sports so can't really relate to very cold weather.

I just went through this after selling my 30D.

The way I figured it, even if canon does come out with a mark IV it's going to be at least $4500-5000 if not more, just like the 1d3 was before it. That's way out of my price range, and again there's no guarantee it won't have issues as well, and it might not come out for months either. I'm sure 1d3's price will drop again if a IV is announced but that could be 3-4 months or longer so how much is 3-4 months of shooting worth.

I shopped around for 1diin's but it seems most in really good condition with low shutter counts are going for $1600-2000, and it sounds like on the good 1d3 units the ISO and focusing is superior to the 1d2n. That and when I've bought used cameras in the past it seems the batteries are always the first to go, so another couple new batteries is another $200. Plus you gain live view which is really nice for manual focus, and the MA adjustment, along with more settings than you can keep track of.

In the end I ended up with a canon refurbished 1d3 from adorama. It came with all the stuff in the canon box wrapped as new and didn't have a scratch or mark on it and it was still a 57x serial number. So far it's been great, focus seems accurate and killer fast on still and moving targets, one shot and servo. It just seemed like for only $1000 more the 1d3 was a better option than the 1d2n, and it came with a year of warranty from adorama.

Of course there was the added expense of having to get a sigma 12-24 to have a similar UWA to the 10-22 on the 30D but after selling the lens it was almost a wash.

JohnJ80 wrote:
1. What would you do in my situation?

2. How would you compare the high ISO performance of the 1Dmk2N against the 5D? I own a 5D, so that is a good point of reference for me.

3. How well do the Mk2N NiMH batteries do in the cold? Is there a remote battery pack option?

J.

Hi John,

I think I can answer your questions.

1. I would go for the MKIIN, instead of the MKIII. The MKIII focus issues are more or less history now, however, the MKIIN is proven reliable & durable. I have shot with a MKIII, and while it has some new improvements, its not leaps & bounds ahead of the MKIIN. That is my opinion. To each their own. 10 FPS vs 8 FPS is not that crucial, nor is 10MP vs 8MP. The LCD is larger, but is not any clearer. Battery Tech is nice, but my NiMH's are quite durable. Average cost' difference is between $750 to $1000. I can definitely find much more needed items, than newer tech, to spend with that cost' savings.

3. Regarding the NiMH Tech, I get really good battery life. Doesn't really matter, if its Cold or Hot. I average 2000 to 2500 frames per charge during the summer, and around 1500 frames in the winter. The MKIIN does have an optional battery pack + accessories, that will provide continuous power, if your able to plug into an outlet. The optional pack, should come with whatever MKIIN you buy. I have both that came with my N's.

2. I owned a 5D & MKIIN at the same time. I have ZERO qualms about shooting my MKIIN's at 3200. Some people, say they won't go above 800, but that is their choice. I shoot Sports, and bought my N's as tools. I don't baby them, but I don't beat them either. They have some scratches/ scuffs, but I think that adds character to the body. Comparing the two at High ISO, the 5D has a bit less noise, but it is FF & has more pixels. The FF sensor is the difference IMO. However, if you nail the exposure correctly on the MKIIN's, then there is no reason, not to use 3200, if needed. When, I'm shooting Night games, I usually EC +1/3, and that helps in keeping the exposure in line. Also the MKIIN files work very well in Post. I use Noiseware Pro thru PSCS3, and I get very good results, when cleaning up noise/ artifacts. But, I don't always use NR, just when needed (Dungeons of HS Football Fields or Uxx Gyms)

Hope this helps. If you want to see some pixs shot with the N's, by all means, check out my website. 95% of what is on my website has been shot with my Twin MKIIN's.

James

I wouldn't buy a MkIV should that happen in Sept, but I'd hope for a more discounted MkIII. I think the MK3 is what I ultimately want - but with the economy, money is tight.

That said, the winter sports shooting I'm doing is ski meets, and the Li-ion batteries are going to be much better in the cold than the NiMH. It can get pretty cold here in January (Minnesota) and I've shot a lot of meets at, or below/around 0F.

Some of the shooting is under the lights at night meets so low light performance is important. So is the fast AF - ski racing is a tough one because of the closing speed of the skier. The 40D struggles with that and I'm just not happy with the results - but it would make an ok backup.

J.

1DII's are going for $1k now or less. As long as you shoot RAW, there's no real IQ or performance difference between the II and IIn (at least, that's my understanding). You certainly get some niceties with the n, but unless you need to store jpg on one card and raw on the other, or shoot jpg a lot - they will do the same job equally well.

go for the MkIIn its great for sports. I've had one since summer 2006 and its never let me down yet. Its a real step up form the xxD series in terms of build and AF.

I posted a few shots on the sports forum taken last week in good light (http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/786930/0#7235640) and loads of surfing and running shots in varying lighting conditions on my PBase site (http://www.pbase.com/forrest5000/sports)
but unless you need to store jpg on one card and raw on the other, I lost 600 shots from my bro's wedding on Friday when I changed card and the new one got corrupt. Wish I'd shot on both cards for that day, oh well
John

As to the cold weather I lived in ND for a long time and I can say that my 30D didn't last long in that type of cold, but it shot forever on a battery when it was warm. My understanding is lion batteries have worse cold weather performance than nimh so I would suggest for extended cold weather shooting some type of external battery with a cord you can wear under your coat etc to keep warm.

My experience is pretty much the same as Rockies Photos. The "N" is a wonderful machine, rugged, good battery life and decent high ISO performance. You will not be disappointed.

1D IV will be very expensive so it's better to get 1D III.

It will be a few years before 1D Mk IV price comes down to what I'd consider reasonable.

MkIII still is and will remain chancey IMO regarding its AF system, especially when buying it used from a private individual, where returns/warranty are unfavourable or non-existent.

1DMkII(N)'s are priced very well these days for what they offer......go for it.

My MKIII is finally working great after the fixes and the N was a great body but no way would I go back to it now, especially with the MKIII's low light high ISO capability, it's great in low light.

My point is in waiting for the 1Dmk4 is because it would cause a faster depreciation of 1Dmk3 bodies. I'm not going to go into a MkIV at the (probable) $4K price point. I would really like a Mk3 however.

J.

Well as far as sports your not going to like the 5D. Its slow and the AF is much slower than the 1D's. The 1d MKIIn is fast but the MKIII is even faster and the ISO
performance is better than the 5D.
I would get the MKIII. Raw buffer is 30 compaired to 19-22 with the MKIIn. Bigger LCD. Forget the 5D if you shoot sports your going to be dissapointed with the 5D.

I just bought the the MkIII. The prices on those cameras are great right now. I would not suggest getting the MkIV is money is an issue as it's going to be pretty expensive. As for the focus issues Canon is openly accepting all MkIII for evaluation and focus repairs if needed or if there is any doubt.

if you play the waiting game you will never buy the camera. if you wait for the mkIV then when that comes out you will read rumors about the newer version of that then want to wait even more.

A brand new 1DIII is the way to go.
The AF issue is eliminated from the equation, as are any other problems that could have been caused by a previous owner.
Go to www.calumetphoto.com and apply for their credit card, then wait for their 1 year, no pay, no interest special and purchase what you need to conduct your business.
I put a friend in business using my credit and he payed for the equipment before payment was due.

I went from the MKIIn to the MKIII and haven't looked back.

The MKIII feels slightly shorter than the MKIIn, lighter, AF is a touch more responsive, battery life is much improved, and image quality is better. It may not sound like much but the extra few megapixels helps when cropping images.

The MKIIn is a fantastic camera in its own rights and I wish the MKIII had the less-involved menus the MKIIn has. The MKIII has a lot more menus and settings to get used to.

Nothing against the MKII but I think the MKIIn is better layed out and has better image quality. I never got used to having to go into the menu to switch between SD and CF cards with the MKII. Sounds like a little thing but it is far easier to have the button functionality the MKIIn has.

If you can find a slightly used, decently priced MKIII that's been to Canon for all the recalls, then that's the way I would go. If you want to be conservative with your budget, you won't be disappointed with the MKIIn. That being said, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the 1D series, it's just finding which one fits your needs and budget the best.

When all else fails, treat yourself and get the MKIII.

I would wait and get the Mark III. Having used the 1Ds Mark III for a while (and given that it is essentially the *same* AF system) it is a much noticeable faster AF system especially in lower light compared to my 1Ds Mark II and 1D Mark II. The 1D Mark IIn, IMO, isn't worth it because of what people are still asking for it in terms of price. I also find that the 1D Mark II (and Mark IIn), has a particularly strong AA filter resulting in softer images (even with Sharpness set to 5) and requires post-sharpening. My 1Ds Mark II and the Mark III don't seem to have anywhere as an aggressive AA filter and I find I rarely have to do any post sharpening and my sharpness in-camera setting is like 2 or 3.

Save and wait and you'll be happier with the Mark III rather than having the Mark IIn now and regretting it.

I have the luxury of waiting until early fall. Other than wanting to get started with it, if there is an advantage in waiting and the MkIII is better in low ISO and AF then that would probably be the best choice.

I'm intrigued by the Calumet Photo 1 year no interest thing. That would make it simple to buy one new. That said, getting one used with low clicks would save a ton of money and should probably be my first choice followed by the new.

J.

Only problem I see with Calumet is that their ratings on reselleratings.com has sunk to a 5/10 in the past six months. Lifetime is still up around 8.5/10 but looks like customer service has taken a slide.

coppertop wrote:
Only problem I see with Calumet is that their ratings on reselleratings.com has sunk to a 5/10 in the past six months. Lifetime is still up around 8.5/10 but looks like customer service has taken a slide.


Even their brick and morter. I went in one of their stores with $6K in hand of equipment looking for a new bag and got no offer of help from the 4 clerks that were chatting together in the empty store. I found a bag after 1/2 hour and went to pay for it. They said, can we help you? I replied sure you could have a half hour ago. The clerk said "well we don't like to bother customers" After that they had the gall to ask me for my drivers license because I was charging a $100 bag to "protect them against fraud because they were a small company".

Needless to say I will never do business at that store again (Oakbrook Il).

GeneO:

Calumet did let some employees go at the beginning of the year, but they seem to be hiring most of them back, at least in NYC.

I always call in advance and have my salesman (Bill M) perpare or check inventory before I drive 20 minutes or 2 hours depending on traffic.

Good luck

A while ago, I posted here asking the members if I should upgrade from my 30D to a 50D or to the 1D Mark II. The unanimous opinion was that I should go with the 1D. I recently picked up a 1D Mark IIn and used it last week to shoot a high school basketball summer tournament.

I was absolutely stunned at the difference in the keeper rate between the two bodies. The images from the Mark IIn cleaned up nicely in PP. Thanks to all for some great advice.

JohnJ80 wrote:
I need a new body for sports shooting [...] but money's tight. [...] What would you do in my situation?

I'd buy the 1D Mk II or 1D Mk II N.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.