Hey guys, does this make sense to you? I only have one body (5D) that I usually only use with my 85mm or my 24-70mm. I have a 70-200 f/4 IS I use occasionally. I was wondering would it be prudent to sell that (70-200) lens and use the proceeds (+ a little more cash) to get the Olympus EP-1 Pen with the 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 lens + a Panasonic 45-200mm f/4-5.6 lens (crop factor 2 means both lenses together will be 28-400mm). That way I have 2 cameras I can use without having to switch lenses all the time (just like the pros...lol)

Or was that just a silly question? Thanks for the input!

IMO the money would be better spent on a 500D. Then you have your two bodies, with different features, different angles of view, and one lens mount. Add an EF 24 f2.8 and you have a small lightweight camera for casual situations. The E-P1 will not fit comfortably in a jeans pocket and it is quite heavy. If you already have all those superb EOS lenses the 500D will give you a lot more per ounce and dollar, if not per fluid ounce.

One more voice here. I bought the 400D (used) last summer to act as my small camera--to replace my G9 which I passed to my husband--don't care for it. I bought the G1 plus 14=45 and 45-200 for my small. I find a good bit of difference even with it and the Panny lenses as opposed to using my 400D with Canon lenses. I also added some FDs and a Konica for faster primes for the time being. Makes a much smaller kit than 400D plus EF lenses.

OTOH--I carried both the 5D with pared down kit plus G1 with 3 zooms (2 Pannies and the Oly 9-18) this past week on a trip. IF--you are going to carry your 5D--then just adding the 500D makes sense--one set of lenses and 2 bodies. If you are only going to carry one camera/kit (which I'll do more for travel as I am gaining more confidence in the G1) then adding the EP-1, etc. would make sense.

I will say that I'm adding a Y strap to use the G1 and whatever lens seems the good choice for carrying 'on' my body and use 5D on tripod. That will be occasional---I'm not much into carrying 2 bodies--did it this past week and its a pain IMO. I'd rather change lenses (my subjects are never extremely fast LOL).

Diane

I'd agree with brainiac on this one. If you're going to use zooms, get a 500D/Rebel T1i instead.

The E-P1 isn't going to be that much smaller with a zoom mounted, it's only really compact with a small prime or two. A 500D with an 18-55 IS and a 55-250 IS will give you nearly as much range in a bit larger package with better IQ.

Thanks for the input. I was just marvelling on the versatility of having such a large range in a much smaller kit that I can travel around with; but in case I do need the zoom I still have it. But I am still deciding. Thanks for all your insights.

Diane: So how did you find the quality of the shots when taken with the G1? How are they on the far end (200mm)? Thanks!

mawz wrote:
I'd agree with brainiac on this one. If you're going to use zooms, get a 500D/Rebel T1i instead.

The E-P1 isn't going to be that much smaller with a zoom mounted, it's only really compact with a small prime or two. A 500D with an 18-55 IS and a 55-250 IS will give you nearly as much range in a bit larger package with better IQ.

Hmm..I guess you're right. But maybe coz I still haven't seen an EP-1, I was still hoping it'd be much smaller.

If you have a 5D you probably won't be too happy with results from a 400D. But a 450D and 500D are another matter. They snap at the heels of the 5D.

You don't need always to use big heavy EF lenses either, especially if you practice manual focus technique and focus bracketing:

There are several good videos on YOutube that give you a very good idea of size. Not as small as many have been thinking. One--a translated Spanish video, shows the G1, DP2 and the EP-1--that gave me a good idea since I own the G1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgbN1iiuEUM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfIAEeiQ2qU&feature=fvw

and this is the Spanish one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceST_MbrbWg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.masterchong.com%2Fv3%2Folympus%2Folympus-e-p1-commercials-and-sample-hd-videos.html&feature=player_embedded

There is one person shooting with the EP-1 ro a week that says the Panny 45-200 is nicely balanced and usable on the EP-1.

As to the 45-200--I admit I'm not much of a tele shootiner and some feel that the 45-200 is best up to 150 mm (300mm 35mm equiv) but I have shot a few at 200. I think you have to be very careful of your technique (after all it is 400mm 35mm equiv) and, again, I'm not a tele shooter. I don't own an EF 100-400, just a 70-200 so that would be similar to shooting with the G1 at 100mm.

Diane

brainiac wrote:
If you have a 5D you probably won't be too happy with results from a 400D. But a 450D and 500D are another matter. They snap at the heels of the 5D.

.jpg


I'm not talking about IQ--I'm talking about size--I wanted to cut down my size/weight considerably (and its smaller than the 450D--not sure about 500D).. Didn't gain me much that I can see. Remember, the OP is talking about EF lenses--not alternative ones I don't think. I prefer primes a great deal of the time--but they are still large in comparison to m4/3rds lenses or even some of the older MF lenses even with adaptors. What you showed are lovely and I wouldn't mind owning them--but I don't. And---if I was going to use them on an EF body it would be the 5D.

Diane

Yes, I was thinking about a second camera for more pro shooting situations, but for travel and day usage, having a smaller combination would be cool too.

Thanks...I'll take a look at the links when I get home, work doesn't allow me to watch YouTube

picnic wrote:
I'm not talking about IQ--I'm talking about size--I wanted to cut down my size/weight considerably (and its smaller than the 450D--not sure about 500D).. Didn't gain me much that I can see. Remember, the OP is talking about EF lenses--not alternative ones I don't think. I prefer primes a great deal of the time--but they are still large in comparison to m4/3rds lenses or even some of the older MF lenses even with adaptors. What you showed are lovely and I wouldn't mind owning them--but I don't. And---if I was going to use them on an EF body it would be the 5D.

Diane, you are making a lot of sense to me. The reason I posted the 450D/Oly pictures is that when I went to the shops to hold an E-P1 I found it to be bigger and heavier than I had hoped. I decided that the size/weight advantage over my 450D and tiny prime wasn't enough to justify the expenditure and compromises, so I have forgiven my 450D and Zuikos for being so lumpy and ugly and have posted them here to show them that I love them again. Until next time...

brainiac wrote:
[
Diane, you are making a lot of sense to me. The reason I posted the 450D/Oly pictures is that when I went to the shops to hold an E-P1 I found it to be bigger and heavier than I had hoped. I decided that the size/weight advantage over my 450D and tiny prime wasn't enough to justify the expenditure and compromises, so I have forgiven my 450D and Zuikos for being so lumpy and ugly and have posted them here to show them that I love them again. Until next time...

Gotcha' *smile*. I really like those little Zuikos. I, too, thought it would be smaller and the videos I linked to show that its pretty big (relatively)--larger than my G9 it appears (and I haven't held it but in the woman's hand in the first video--she's an Oly mkting person in UK I think--its not a small P & S size that some were hoping.) The size would be okay with me--and the slim styling as the G1 size suits me, but the lack of a VF is still putting me off. On the getdpi forum there are several shooting with it since the weekend--and like it so far. But--one has an M8 and a Sony900 and he did mention--would he use it instead of M8?? There's the hitch I think. Whether one will choose it over one not so much larger. I still can't quite leave my 5D at home yet LOL.

picnic wrote:
I still can't quite leave my 5D at home yet .


+1

For me it is either 5D or nothing, right now. I thought the EP-1 might change that, but I am very doubtful now.

And of course many may feel that anything is better than nothing. After following that line of thought with several smaller cameras, my only conclusion, quite consistently, was "I wish I had brought my 5D instead". This was no different than feeling "I wish I had brought my camera". So the option "5D or nothing" works just as well for me.

You can get a real size advantage out of the G1 or E-P1, but it will take the use of a mix of m43 primes and adapter M or LTM lenses. If you're using zooms or adapted SLR primes much to all of the size advantage goes away.

mawz wrote:
You can get a real size advantage out of the G1 or E-P1, but it will take the use of a mix of m43 primes and adapter M...

I don't think you will get it much smaller than the kit zoom when you adapt lenses. The 17mm pancake is another matter and Olympus should be applauded for producing such a low spec lens for the benefit of the size-conscious.

But playing with the E-P1 in the shop made me realise that there are two kinds of camera: breast/jeans pocket cameras and big cameras. The E-P1 unfortunately still falls into the big camera category, and that means I need a bag or pouch or shoulder-strap or wrist-strap in order to carry it with me in my every day life. Since I need to use a bag or strap, like cogitech says, I might as well bring a proper camera:

brainiac wrote:
mawz wrote:
You can get a real size advantage out of the G1 or E-P1, but it will take the use of a mix of m43 primes and adapter M...

I don't think you will get it much smaller than the kit zoom when you adapt lenses. The 17mm pancake is another matter and Olympus should be applauded for producing such a low spec lens for the benefit of the size-conscious.

But playing with the E-P1 in the shop made me realise that there are two kinds of camera: breast/jeans pocket cameras and big cameras. The E-P1 unfortunately still falls into the big camera category, and that means I need a bag or pouch or shoulder-strap or wrist-strap in order to carry it with me in my every day life. Since I need to use a bag or strap, like cogitech says, I might as well bring a proper camera:


We've already had this discussion. With an M adapter being ~9mm deep and quite a number of RF lenses in the 20-30mm long range, pairing a m43 pancake for a wide/normal and a compact M lens as your telephoto makes a kit that's significantly smaller than ANY current DSLR. Even pairing the CV 15/4.5 (at a longish but not unreasonable 38mm long) and one of their sub-30mm longer primes (say the 35mm f1.4) gives a kit significantly smaller than said DSLR.

The kit zoom on the E-P1 is smallish when collapsed, but it's still larger than the compact prime options.

I'd much rather have that kit to haul than a 5D even if paired with a compact lens. The 5D is just too bloody big for everyday use.

mawz wrote:

I'd much rather have that kit to haul than a 5D even if paired with a compact lens. The 5D is just too bloody big for everyday use.

I love my 5D--I feel almost 'bonded' LOL--but gender (hate to say that, but our upper body strength is just less and so I think it 'weighs' on us for a long day of carrying) and age (probably more of it) enter into it also. I've carried a largish camera since I went digital in 2000--well, actually the larger ones from 2001--sometimes with grips. Before that film cameras that, though not small, were def. smaller--and usually only with 2 lenses (I hardly believe that myself). I can handle my 5D kit for part days or part by car, but for long days or where we're on paths that always seem up--I need something smaller.

I can also see those that want to carry cameras with them daily, urban style shooting, would much rather have a small camera/lens that they feel comfortable with and that they can count on for good files.

Diane

I agree with Richard re: two types of cameras. Pocketable and not.

If it doesn't fit in my pocket, it might as well be a 5D.

The PEN EE-2 fits in my pocket, so I had high hopes for the new PEN.

If they release a sharp 12mm or 14mm that is half as long as the 17, I might be interested.

Putting a zoom on it is just plain goofy, IMO.

My point was that it's not pocketable. That was the disappointment for me.

I reckon depths without lens caps to be as follows:
E-P1 with 17mm lens ...... ~ 65mm
"" with smallest CV ..... ~ 65mm
"" with 14-42mm ....... ~ 80mm
450D with Oly 40 ........... ~ 85mm
"" with Oly 21 ............ ~ 91mm

It would be great if someone could confirm mount-to-lens-cap dimensions of the smallest M lenses in the wide to normal ranges. I reckon E-P1 with M adaptor is about 45mm deep.

BTW, imaging resource has a great review. Looks like it really keeps up with the 500D for image quality.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/EP1/EP1A.HTM

That's exactly the sort of math going on in my head.

Even good old dpreview agrees with us here, Richard: "approaching pocketable if you're wearing an overcoat."

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

Regarding weight, the 500D is 520g with the battery and the EP-1 is 410g with the battery. Regardless of how old you are or what your gender is, 110g is irrevelant.

picnic wrote:

I love my 5D--I feel almost 'bonded' --but gender (hate to say that, but our upper body strength is just less and so I think it 'weighs' on us for a long day of carrying) and age (probably more of it) enter into it also. I've carried a largish camera since I went digital in 2000--well, actually the larger ones from 2001--sometimes with grips. Before that film cameras that, though not small, were def. smaller--and usually only with 2 lenses (I hardly believe that myself). I can handle my 5D kit for part days or part by car, but for long days or where we're on paths that always seem up--I need something smaller.

I can also see those that want to carry cameras with them daily, urban style shooting, would much rather have a small camera/lens that they feel comfortable with and that they can count on for good files.

Diane



It's not just Gender. I'm male, 6'3" and 285lbs. I don't tend to like big/heavy cameras. Mostly because I'm hauling other stuff with me most times (Just returned to school after more than a decade in the workforce, engineering texts are big & heavy) and also because I tend to carry the camera in-hand most of the time and a 800+ gram body like the 5D just doesn't carry well like that. Also the large 35mm bodies are really neither here nor there for me. if I'm going to haul that kind of weight, I'd rather haul my 645. As to the 450D/500D, I'm not willing to put up with the tiny, hard to focus finder and lack of flip/twist LCD. The G1 is significantly better in both regards.

brainiac wrote:
My point was that it's not pocketable. That was the disappointment for me.

I reckon depths without lens caps to be as follows:
E-P1 with 17mm lens ...... ~ 65mm
"" with smallest CV ..... ~ 65mm
"" with 14-42mm ....... ~ 80mm
450D with Oly 40 ........... ~ 85mm
"" with Oly 21 ............ ~ 91mm

It would be great if someone could confirm mount-to-lens-cap dimensions of the smallest M lenses in the wide to normal ranges. I reckon E-P1 with M adaptor is about 45mm deep.

With the 17mm, you're looking at 56mm not 65mm (36mm body, 20mm lens), the CV's should be about 60-70mm depending on mount-filter ring size (I'm not sure exactly how CV specs lens length on their RF lenses). Also note the 14-42 is rather much longer when not collapsed.

cogitech wrote:

Regarding weight, the 500D is 520g with the battery and the EP-1 is 410g with the battery. Regardless of how old you are or what your gender is, 110g is irrevelant.

I'm sitting here with a 400D with 28 f/1.8 on it and the G1 with an FD 24 f/2.8. I don't know the weights--but the G1 feels lighter/smaller in hand. That's where it counts overall. The 400D also 'klunkier' and that hasn't changed to the 500D--similar shape. 110g isn't really the issue, is it? I"m not touting the EP-1--I haven't tried it for myself, but I do know that I've carried the 400D and the G1 with similar FL and it feels quite different. Then--put the 14-45 on the G1 and anything that covers the same FL/speed on the 400-500D and there you'll see a really big difference.

I, personally, don't think I would put a zoom on the EP-1 but others have tried the 7-14 and 45-200 and feel its nicely balanced.

If you are thinking pocketable, then your choices are different. If you are thinking small, then there are a few new choices. No one can tell me if they have to carry a bag that they might as well carry the 5D--been there, done that for almost 4 years and largish DLSRs prior to that. .

Diane

Note that 110g difference between the E-P1 and 450D is almost identical to the 130g difference between the DP-2 and E-P1. It's a fairly significant difference at their weights (500D is 25% heavier than E-P1, E-P1 is 46% heavier than the DP-2). The practical difference may be little, but it is very easily felt.